Generator decision

[Firebrick43]

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I never heard of this manufacturer and hopefully the JUNKMAN doesn’t have any issues that needs parts or service.……. NOT for me because I stick with manufacturers that have local parts and service available.

Lister petter is famous the world over for small diesel gen sets.

I would dare to say Lister invented the market segment with their CS line of diesel engines in the late 20's and sold it all the way into the 80's.

There are dealers around. Every Amish community I have been to; has a dealer as they it seems to be the most trusted brand they use for hours every day to run their milk chillers and air compressors. All the ones I have seen on the Amish farms are TR2 or TR3's

You have a dealer not far away.

maesco.com - Mid-Atlantic Engine Supply Corp.

maesco.com - Mid-Atlantic Engine Supply Corp., distributors of Lister-Petter diesel engines, Iveco Diesel engines, AC generator sets, DC generator sets, marine generator sets, Racor Filters and Filtration Systems, Baldwin Filters, pump units, used equipment, engine accessories, engine controls...

maesco.com

 

[My Old Tools]

I’m building a house in central NC and need some help determining what generator to get and at what price point. I’m not trying to break the bank but want one that will be sufficient when a need occurs. The house will have one 400 amp panel. Duke already put a new transformer and poles on the property and plan to use 300 wire or something like that. I plan to use an in ground propane tank for the generator and for the tankless water heater. House will have dual ac units. The other main draw will be my garage where my welders, lifts, compressor, and other tools reside. I would rarely ever have 2 240 volt tools running at the same time since it’s just me there. The question is will a 30kw liquid cooled generator be good enough or will I need more power? The two “affordable” units I saw are the general protector series and Taylor power systems; both units run at 3600rpm. Going up to 40+ kilowatts really jacks the price up and I’m not sure if that much power is really needed but I do like the reliability of an 1800rpm motor.

I have a 37kw Generac. It is 20 years or so old and works great. It has a Mitsubishi water cooled turbo 2.4L that is bullet proof. I have 500 gallons propane underground, dedicated to the genny. I have a big house, geothermal, big shop with big equipment and 10hp 3 phase rotary. I never think about what I'm running. It's surprising how cheap it is to run, it's just loafing most of the time. Think about how cheap those little Mitsubishi pickups are to run.

A week without power after a summer hurricane will make a generator look cheap. 100 degrees with high humidity really *****, and all the hotels for 200 miles around are full.

 

[Junkman]

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I never heard of this manufacturer and hopefully the JUNKMAN doesn’t have any issues that needs parts or service.……. NOT for me because I stick with manufacturers that have local parts and service available.

I have never had a problem getting parts for my genset, and that is because it hasn't ever needed any. When I first got it, I did have a problem with the autostart box, and the selling dealer sent me a replacement. I don't remember the name of the company that I purchased it from. At that time, they were selling them through eBay. I looked for a label from them on the unit; however, they didn't put anything on it.

 

[R_Holiday]

So I did some research and found out the power doesn’t go out very often from the neighbors. My builder believes that the area would get priority during power outages because of its proximity to the main road with the commercial businesses. I might just need a generator to hold me down for the few times the power goes out and it shouldn’t last hella long.

 

[mm08822]

So I did some research and found out the power doesn’t go out very often from the neighbors. My builder believes that the area would get priority during power outages because of its proximity to the main road with the commercial businesses. I might just need a generator to hold me down for the few times the power goes out and it shouldn’t last hella long.

PIB and portable gennie.

 

[My Old Tools]

Big difference between being out in the boonies and being in town, but if you get an ice storm that takes down all the powerlines and trees, or a tornado that does the same, around here you can be down for days even in town. We also have experienced more than a few blown substations that take 6 hours or more to restore.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Big difference between being out in the boonies and being in town, but if you get an ice storm that takes down all the powerlines and trees, or a tornado that does the same, around here you can be down for days even in town. We also have experienced more than a few blown substations that take 6 hours or more to restore.

After Sandy hit I was without power for 16 days…….. I live in a rural area of NJ along the Delaware River and 5-7 day power outages in my area are common after storms blow through and we just had a three day outage over the 4’th of July weekend. Everyone out here should have a generator or they will have a really thought time when the freezing weather gets here.

BTW! JCP&L (poco) is currently under investigation by the state for crappy service, poor restoration times and rate increases….. I am sure this will go nowhere and it this investigation is happening just to shut up the JCP&L haters.

 

[Junkman]

After Sandy hit I was without power for 16 days…….. I live in a rural area of NJ along the Delaware River and 5-7 day power outages in my area are common after storms blow through and we just had a three day outage over the 4’th of July weekend. Everyone out here should have a generator or they will have a really thought time when the freezing weather gets here.

BTW! JCP&L (poco) is currently under investigation by the state for crappy service, poor restoration times and rate increases….. I am sure this will go nowhere and it this investigation is happening just to shut up the JCP&L haters.

No difference with Eversource in CT. They have no incentive to restore power quickly because they tack the costs onto ratepayers, so the more they spend, the more they will make by stalling restoration.
I have National Grid in MA also, and they get the power restored much faster, and the rates are lower than in CT. CT has the highest rates in the country, so I have been told.
It seems that no matter which electrical company is in charge, they all offer crappy service; however, some are worse than others.

 

[turbowoodworker]

So I did some research and found out the power doesn’t go out very often from the neighbors. My builder believes that the area would get priority during power outages because of its proximity to the main road with the commercial businesses. I might just need a generator to hold me down for the few times the power goes out and it shouldn’t last hella long.

Not sure where in NC you are. I’m SW of Raleigh, not boonies but not suburban either.
Fifteen year old house, 5000 sg ft, with 22kW Generac whole house with propane tank. In 15 years, longest we’ve been on gen power was shy of 36 hours during ice storm. Even shorter with hurricanes.
So depending on location and risk of longer outage, your plan may be different.

BTW, during that long 36 hr outage, not once did I consider powering up my TIG.

 

[Sumboodie]

I have a 5kw and it's more than plenty.
All I really need is lights, heat and well pump. If A/C was needed, than upsize for that.

400 amp is wild. Most places here are on 100-125 amp.

 

[Sumboodie]

Probably not a popular GJ opinion but for those few outages I would have to wonder if a generator is more trouble than it is worth ? Thats about the same frequency of outages we have had over the last 30 years and I have never once thought about buying a generator.

Main reason I have oneis I'm gone alot for work and power outage could mean the place freezing up.

Had a friend come home after being at work a month and couldn't open the door.
Power was out 4 or 5 days, pipes froze, power came back on, pipes thawed and flooded, which eventually killed the furnace and he came home to ~3ft of ice.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

CT has the highest rates in the country, so I have been told.

california says hold my beer

 

[Beamer]

We had a generator for a few years. The maintenance (if gasoline) is a PIA and it took up too much room in the garage and was used so rarely that I was happy on the day I sold it.

If a serious storm is headed our way, we fill some jugs with drinking water, put the kiddy pool out to fill with rain for the toilets, and charge the flashlight batteries. If it's winter, get some firewood handy for cooking and comfort.
We gave up camping due to age and roughing it in a storm's aftermath is entertaining.

Besides, it's an excuse to eat out!

 

[Stuart in MN]

I have a 5kw and it's more than plenty.
All I really need is lights, heat and well pump. If A/C was needed, than upsize for that.

400 amp is wild. Most places here are on 100-125 amp.

There are still plenty of old homes with existing 100 amp services (mine included) but a 200 amp service is standard for new service installations in Minnesota. I think that's typical in most parts of the lower 48. There are more and more large homes that are getting 320/400 amp services.

 

[R_Holiday]

Not sure where in NC you are. I’m SW of Raleigh, not boonies but not suburban either.
Fifteen year old house, 5000 sg ft, with 22kW Generac whole house with propane tank. In 15 years, longest we’ve been on gen power was shy of 36 hours during ice storm. Even shorter with hurricanes.
So depending on location and risk of longer outage, your plan may be different.

BTW, during that long 36 hr outage, not once did I consider powering up my TIG.

I’m in Sanford so probably somewhere close to where you’re at. Good to hear that you’re doing well with that size generator. I think I’m gonna go with one in that ballpark as well since the power doesn’t go out that often where the house is gonna be. I’m not saying I’m gonna wanna run my tig when the power is out but I would like to have the option; especially if it occurs when I’m in the middle of a project or was prepping for it. I don’t weld with super high amps anyway. It’s also just me in the house. There’s not a slew of people utilizing the resources if the power did go out.

 

[turbowoodworker]

I’m just up Hwy 1 from you on 64 at Jordan Lake.
Unless things have changed with Kohler and Generac, 22kW is or may be the largest air cooled residential generator. Once over that, the 1800 rpm, liquid cooled industrial come in to play and get expensive fast.
Concerning propane tank, I went for a 500 gal, which in retrospect was way overkill. Since only the gen uses propane, and it is rarely running, I barely top off when the truck swings by.
So this may be an expensive luxury for some, but I appreciate it as insurance in some ways. If I’m out of town, my wife and kids will be comfortable. That makes me comfortable too.

 

[mike93lx]

I’m just up Hwy 1 from you on 64 at Jordan Lake.
Unless things have changed with Kohler and Generac, 22kW is or may be the largest air cooled residential generator. Once over that, the 1800 rpm, liquid cooled industrial come in to play and get expensive fast.
Concerning propane tank, I went for a 500 gal, which in retrospect was way overkill. Since only the gen uses propane, and it is rarely running, I barely top off when the truck swings by.
So this may be an expensive luxury for some, but I appreciate it as insurance in some ways. If I’m out of town, my wife and kids will be comfortable. That makes me comfortable too.

General lists 26kw air cooled on their site

 

[R_Holiday]

@turbowoodworker you really are right up the way from me. Generac has a 26kw air cooled as mike931x mentioned. Taylor also has one which uses a Briggs and Stratton engine. The 1800rpm liquid cooled ones really do get expensive fast. Even a 3600rpm liquid cooled is costly. I don’t mind spending the money for good equipment but all the knowledge and personal experience I’ve gotten from this post makes it seem like spending primo money on a generator might be overkill since my needs aren’t very extreme at all. It really will be for the few times it’s needed which aren’t many. Will probably just go with a 24-26kw air cooled to have as backup. The propane tank I was quoted for was a 320 gallon tank for the hot water heater and generator but was gonna up it to 500 gallon. The 320 might be adequate but it probably won’t be much more for the 500 gallon and would necessitate less refills.

 

[Sumboodie]

There are still plenty of old homes with existing 100 amp services (mine included) but a 200 amp service is standard for new service installations in Minnesota. I think that's typical in most parts of the lower 48. There are more and more large homes that are getting 320/400 amp services.

I'd hate to have those power bills!

 

[Sumboodie]

@turbowoodworker you really are right up the way from me. Generac has a 26kw air cooled as mike931x mentioned. Taylor also has one which uses a Briggs and Stratton engine. The 1800rpm liquid cooled ones really do get expensive fast. Even a 3600rpm liquid cooled is costly. I don’t mind spending the money for good equipment but all the knowledge and personal experience I’ve gotten from this post makes it seem like spending primo money on a generator might be overkill since my needs aren’t very extreme at all. It really will be for the few times it’s needed which aren’t many. Will probably just go with a 24-26kw air cooled to have as backup. The propane tank I was quoted for was a 320 gallon tank for the hot water heater and generator but was gonna up it to 500 gallon. The 320 might be adequate but it probably won’t be much more for the 500 gallon and would necessitate less refills.

320 gallon tank would be about 6-7 days.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

@turbowoodworker you really are right up the way from me. Generac has a 26kw air cooled as mike931x mentioned. Taylor also has one which uses a Briggs and Stratton engine. The 1800rpm liquid cooled ones really do get expensive fast. Even a 3600rpm liquid cooled is costly. I don’t mind spending the money for good equipment but all the knowledge and personal experience I’ve gotten from this post makes it seem like spending primo money on a generator might be overkill since my needs aren’t very extreme at all. It really will be for the few times it’s needed which aren’t many. Will probably just go with a 24-26kw air cooled to have as backup. The propane tank I was quoted for was a 320 gallon tank for the hot water heater and generator but was gonna up it to 500 gallon. The 320 might be adequate but it probably won’t be much more for the 500 gallon and would necessitate less refills.

I would suggest that you go for TWO 320's or ONE 500……. I would not feel comfortable with only one 320 just in case you have a two week outage.

"IF" it was my place I would buy my own 1000 gallon LP tank and take advantage of off season "lock in" prices PLUS you won’t have to deal with those "thieving" propane companies on a tank lease.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a 37kw Generac. It is 20 years or so old and works great. It has a Mitsubishi water cooled turbo 2.4L that is bullet proof. I have 500 gallons propane underground, dedicated to the genny.

I only want to add, there is a BIG difference between the water cooled Mitsubishi ones and the ones that are air cooled !

 

[ehenry]

Kohler has a 26kw as well. I had one installed when my old 1995 model 8kw Generac finally gave up. I was the first one in my area to have a standby unit. People thought I was crazy until Katrina blew through. We're 185 miles of the gulf and were without power for over 72 hours.

Now you can hear standby units running all around. I'm wondering how long it will be until the NG infrastructure will no longer be able to support all the generators.

 

[dcg9381]

So I did some research and found out the power doesn’t go out very often from the neighbors. My builder believes that the area would get priority during power outages because of its proximity to the main road with the commercial businesses. I might just need a generator to hold me down for the few times the power goes out and it shouldn’t last hella long.

I wouldn't believe the builder unless he lives there, but would believe the neighbors. I'm in one of those "protected" areas and it's due to being on a main line with a fire department. I don't know that the POC prioritizes "commercial" operations, but they'll prioritize emergency service and things like pump lift stations.

Priority doesn't do much for "unplanned" outages. Here it plays when the POC can't meet demand and has to intentionally shut down some service areas.. Here that means extreme unplanned cold or unplanned heat. It does happen.

I've got 320A service. That really doesn't mean much. House rarely draws more than 90A and even then, it's with an EV charging, so I've never had problems with a 20Kw air-cooled generac. I do have "load shed" devices that will drop out an AC as well as the sub-panel in the garage if the generator struggles, but I've never seen them triggered.

The air-cooled version won't have as long a life as a water cooled gen and it's loud, but I'm totally happy with it for the price compared to something commercial.

The only situation we might get into that would give us a problem is extreme cold, power goes out, and emergency strips kick in - that would (in theory) overload the genset.... I work around that with propane drops in the house and ventless heaters for backup. Our "Texas designed" heat pumps don't work worth a darn below freezing, so I switch to "manual propane" for the few days a year (if that) where we'd be spinning the meter... Even without an outage.

 

[bdbecker]

...Priority doesn't do much for "unplanned" outages...

Agree...

To add, we lost power for a week from a storm several years ago. Our street was one of the last areas in the metro to have power restored because of multiple trees taking out the lines that serve it. Don't get me wrong, the utility did a fantastic job of getting everything restored, but those extra two days sucked. I could see my neighbors across the backyard all comfortable with their AC and lights while we were still sweating it out in the dark.

The funny thing is I got a 9500/12500 generator the next week. I went big because I didn't want to deal with having to swap cords every few hours to keep the fridge and freezer cold like I had to do with the one I borrowed from Dad. Other than exercising it a few times each year, I haven't needed to use it for an actual power outage in the 5+ years I've had it. That is a statement, not a complaint, lol.

I just had an interlock installed when had our panel replaced a few weeks ago. Now I'm really ready for an outage.

 

[Lassen Forge]

We had a 22 KvA Kohler, 61" V Twin on propane and it was flawless - we had one of those PG&E "public safety" power outage, lasted what, 2 1/2 weeks straight, and ran our house, AND shop AND Wellhouse/henhouse without a hiccup. The control board in the genset took a dive before that, but it was replaced under recall.

I hadn't thought about LIster since, hell, I was a kid, and their power plant ran my uncle's farm. It ran 20 hours a day for years, and not a hiccup.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I got a 9500/12500 generator the next week. I went big because I didn't want to deal with having to swap cords every few hours to keep the fridge and freezer cold

I have 6500/5000W generator. Last power outage that lasted more than a few hours I was running 5 refrigerators and a freezer. 3 of them were on cords over 100' !

 

[Shiftless]

I have 6500/5000W generator. Last power outage that lasted more than a few hours I was running 5 refrigerators and a freezer. 3 of them were on cords over 100' !

Not very many of us have 5 refrigerators. Myself, I have one side by side refrigerator/freezer and a medium sized Amana chest freezer in the basement.

 

[Snapped-off]

My little 17kw Generac ran for 6 days during our region-wide storm outages on the 11th. There's still areas without power.

I don't think I'd even bother with one for outages that may be only a couple hours. Maybe a portable with an inlet in that case.

 

[mm08822]

Not very many of us have 5 refrigerators. Myself, I have one side by side refrigerator/freezer and a medium sized Amana chest freezer in the basement.

Seems like the Wiz really slams the groceries

 

[Shiftless]

Seems like the Wiz really slams the groceries

Of course, if you slaughter a steer and have it all butchered for you, you’ll need a freezer just for that. Sometimes I keep more beer than I plan to drink in the next week, like maybe an extra one or two 12 packs but they don’t all have to be refrigerated. So one refrigerator is fine for us two. If a guy lives an hour drive away from a decent store, that might make a difference.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was running 5 refrigerators and a freezer.

holy moly. why so many?

I have one side by side fridge/freezer, 1 mini fridge for beer/drinks and 1 upright freezer

 

[bdbecker]

I have 6500/5000W generator. Last power outage that lasted more than a few hours I was running 5 refrigerators and a freezer. 3 of them were on cords over 100' !

I was running everything off a 20amp outlet. My neighbor was using the other outlet. If I had both the freezer and fridge plugged in at the same time, I'd trip the breaker on the generator. I didn't have a 30amp to 3-plug adapter (store shelves were wiped out locally). I did order the adapter a few days in after it was clear the power was going to be out longer than expected. It showed up the same morning we got power back, so I didn't end up using it (gave it to my Dad when I returned his generator).

I went with the big generator and interlock so I don't have to worry about it again. Other than running the central AC, drying clothes, or running the oven, I should be able to live in relative comfort should I find myself in a similar situation in the future. We've got portable AC units for the bedrooms that we can deploy as well, which the generator will be able to handle.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I went with the big generator and interlock so I don't have to worry about it again. Other than running the central AC, drying clothes, or running the oven, I should be able to live in relative comfort should I find myself in a similar situation in the future.

Here is the opposite thought to people who live in area that are prone to sustained power outages.

Pick a room in your house that will be your "after the storm room". You need to be able to separate it from the rest of the house (door or heavy blankets covering the entrance). In that room you need a floor lamp, a reclining chair (both for relaxing and sleeping), a TV with an antenna, a window A/C and (optionally) a small refrigerator and multiple extension cords (at least 16 gauge) and a few HD triple taps. (DO NOT use "power strips" on appliances larger than computer equipment !)

For generator, the typical 2000W inverter generator might not run your A/C, but there are 3000W-4000W inverter generator on the market that will ! If you have too much food to transfer to a small refrigerator or a freezer, that same 3000+W generator WILL run your standard refrigerator/freezer AND your window shaker at the same time as long as they don't start simultaneously.

You should be able to set this up for less than $1,000 ! (Just don't buy the the Honda EU3200i generator !)

 

[bdbecker]

Here is the opposite thought to people who live in area that are prone to sustained power outages.

Pick a room in your house that will be your "after the storm room". You need to be able to separate it from the rest of the house (door or heavy blankets covering the entrance). In that room you need a floor lamp, a reclining chair (both for relaxing and sleeping), a TV with an antenna, a window A/C and (optionally) a small refrigerator and multiple extension cords (at least 16 gauge) and a few HD triple taps. (DO NOT use "power strips" on appliances larger than computer equipment !)

For generator, the typical 2000W inverter generator might not run your A/C, but there are 3000W-4000W inverter generator on the market that will ! If you have too much food to transfer to a small refrigerator or a freezer, that same 3000+W generator WILL run your standard refrigerator/freezer AND your window shaker at the same time as long as they don't start simultaneously.

You should be able to set this up for less than $1,000 ! (Just don't buy the the Honda EU3200i generator !)

I've got two full size fridges, one deep freeze, two elementary aged kids, a Wife that works from home full time, a dog, and a cat. Living out of a single room for a week is not going to happen.

I've got my setup for my situation ready to go. Turn off the breakers to the AC, dryer, and oven. Engage the interlock and connect the generator - life goes (mostly) back to normal. No getting ready in morning using a flashlight, hot coffee to start the day, TV and DVDs to pass the time, and portable AC units in the bedrooms to sleep comfortably at night.

 

[dcg9381]

My little 17kw Generac ran for 6 days during our region-wide storm outages on the 11th. There's still areas without power.
I don't think I'd even bother with one for outages that may be only a couple hours. Maybe a portable with an inlet in that case.

17k is little?

Problem is often you don't know if the outage will be minutes, hours, or days.. I have UPS powering the office and internet (for work), so even with a slight lag on the ATS before the generator spools up and turns on, often I don't even know the power is down until the genset starts to run.

Shop still has a manual interlock and that's what powers our water pump, so it's a pain to go down there, drag the 9k generator out, set it up, and get it running..

 

[dave*99]

The longest outage at my house was 2 weeks.... But it wasn't electric, the electric stayed on. After Hurricane Sandy the natural gas co turned off the gas mains in the street as all the customer meters had been submerged at one point. They the came to every house and sawed off the gas pipe where it enters your house and installed a new meter. They installed a "customer valve" on the output of the meter. A hang tag was attached to the valve that said "Call a plumber for reconnection, sign the tag specifying who turned the gas on and return it to the gas co."

So I now have an inlet, interlock and a gasoline generator just in case. I can see the substation from my rooftop, outages are extremely rare.

My point - you gotta do what works at your location. Expected duration and level of desired comfort etc.

And just to add insult to injury, the wire nuts in all the junction boxes in the crawl space burned off during the flood.