Generator for Off-grid Cabin 550sqft

[Olympus]

Hey guys, I know this is probably not the best place to post this question but I trust everyone's experience and knowledge here. I'm looking at buying 85 acres for hunting and it has a pretty decent little cabin on the property. The cabin has county water, but no power which seemed odd to me. The seller has an easement to the property through someone else's property and he says that person will not allow any of their trees to be cut down in order to get power back to the seller's property.

So the seller has it set up for a generator for power. I'm pretty sure there is nothing 220V in the cabin, only 110v. The only electric draw besides lights is a small window unit a/c. I'm not really crazy about having a big loud generator running all the time and burning unnecessary fuel. Can someone give me some advice or suggestions? I just really wish I could get regular electric service to the cabin.

 

[3rdgen]

Honda inverters are really quiet and very nice machines if you wanted to take it with you.Other wise I would go with a Generac or some other propane standby generator and just put it a ways from the cabin.

 

[gungatim]

assuming you are not totally shaded, you may be better off getting a battery bank with solar charger setup. lots of tech advances and prices are lower with all the off grid prepper's setting up these systems. you are lucky you have water so your power needs are pretty minimal.

 

[Olympus]

The cabin is mostly shaded.

 

[finn]

I just bought two 1700/2000 watt Champion inverter generators from Menards for $411 each from Menards, after the 11% rebate. They aren't in stock, but can be ordered online for shipping to the store.

That's two for less than half the price of a single Honda or Yamaha, plus they seem to have good reviews, unlike some of the other Chinese inverter generators.

 

[md21722]

Trenching in power is going to be expensive.

You'd need to find out what the laws in your state call for and what the deed says. The easement should be with the deed.

You could buy the other land owner out, install a generator, or look for another piece of land.

 

[matt_i]

I always thought easements were property you could do some things with (but no permanent buildings), up until the point where the utility saw fit to exercise their option to overrule the prior use and clear-cut everything, require buildings to be moved, etc. I've seen short pine trees on a golf course, bothering nobody, buzzed to the ground due to a high-line that ran over the top of them and the resulting utility easement.

That said, I have seen the Honda EU generators at tailgate events for football games and I'm always impressed at how quiet. In general, most people place generators an extension cord away and some people have 5-sided plywood enclosures (probably 4 sided minus the floor) setup temporarily to redirect the sound out of the open side of the cube.

You could probably do better than that, a dirt/earthen or bricked enclosure could be made with even more mass in the walls, and a small shingled roof for weather protection. The "cord" could be longer/heavier for more separation. Soon you will want remote start and stop capabilities

 

[LXCam]

Well since you have 85 acres why don't you clear a area and install a solar array as suggested. Even a inexpensive carport type building covered in panels would give you double duty for keeping your rig out of the elements. And you could enclose a small area for some batteries and the inverter.

 

[trainer]

I have a cabin about that size(20x32) It's wired for 120v for lights. small Waterpump to fill a tower-mounter water tank, portable hottub, tv and satellite receiver, coffee maker and toaster. it'll run a circular saw or small table saw easily.

Propane stove and refrigerator, and demand water heater. A couple of propane lights for backup, but I haven't used them in years.

I run a 3000 watt champion generator in a small shack that's lined with old ceiling tiles to keep the noise down. 12/3 direct burial wire to the camp. It runs 10-15 hours on a tank of gas, depending on the load. It only gets run during evening hours. I looked at solar and wind, but the initial cost and battery upkeep didnt make sense unless I was going to live there full time.



A buddy has a Honda 3000 inverter at his camp that is awesome, but it was 10X the price.

How well insulated is it? Could you add some insulation and reduce the need for a/c?

Have you considered an underground electrical service? Could be a way to get around the restriction on cutting trees.

 

[Olympus]

I'm going to look into the underground cable option and see what they say.

I don't want to be clearing a bunch of trees and then have to figure out how to work the solar system out and keep it maintained.

It's looking like a genny might be my option if buried cable won't work. I just wanted to have something easier than using a genny. And having full time power would allow me a refrigerator that i could keep stocked rathet than coolering everything every time I want to go for a trip there.

 

[md21722]

While its best to be on good terms with your neighbors, the law dictates what you can and cannot do with the easement. Make sure the easement is properly recorded on the deed. I have owned land with easements before. Ultimately I bought the guy in front of me out.

 

[Norcal]

What about solar? With batteries there no need for the noise unless the load required a generator to be run.

 

[walrus]

If he has an easement to get power back there I'd think the land owner you cut across would have no say in whether trees get cut on the easement?

 

[Falcon67]

A 3500 is about as high as you can go if you are only wired for 120VAC. 5500 and up are 240V units. You should look into the expensive Honda type units - good run times and very quiet, even the larger ones. Not cheap at all - $2000~4000 more or less. Enough solar and batteries to run overnight or through a cloudy period to do you will cost way more than that IMHO.

 

[Junkman]

Easements are not all alike. I needed power when I was going to build our home, and the power company chose to install 8 new poles to get to an existing power line, then to try to get an easement over the land that bordered the old town road that was discontinued. The interesting thing is that they don't have an easement for the poles on my land, so they can't hook anything else to them.
Having given you the background on my pole issue, I was also told by the power company, that you cannot be denied service, only be charged the cost of getting the service to you. In my case, it was $1500 back in 1983. Today, it costs about $3000 per pole for a new service location, unless you are in the city, where poles are in abundance.

 

[md21722]

It all depends on where and when. That's why I encouraged the OP to pull the deeded easements and see what they say. Easements are often a hassle and I suggest avoiding them. But remote cabin often entails an easement. In my case I bought the back 50 of a once 100 acre chunk that was divided amongst 4 children when their parents passed 50' wide easement and the guy in front decided to put a septic under it. LOL. What a fiasco it would have been. By law he shouldn't have done that, but remediation would have been a headache.

 

[trainer]

It's looking like a genny might be my option if buried cable won't work. I just wanted to have something easier than using a genny. And having full time power would allow me a refrigerator that i could keep stocked rathet than coolering everything every time I want to go for a trip there.

Get a propane fridge. The new ones have a c02 detector/interlock safety device. I have an 8 cu ft Unique that works great. I run it april to october. No problem leaving ice cream in it.

 

[Blk88GT]

How far is the cabin from the nearest power source?

 

[sands35]

Get a propane fridge. The new ones have a c02 detector/interlock safety device. I have an 8 cu ft Unique that works great. I run it april to october. No problem leaving ice cream in it.

Yes, exactly what I was going to suggest. Propane fridge, heating, water tank, good to go. Maybe a small propane genny to charge phones and run lights at night. Bring in ~250lb bottles when needed. Just need to plan where to put them so they can get rolled off the back of a pickup and to the service location by the house.

Otherwise, either read the deed and easement or hire a local real estate lawyer to do it for you.

 

[Falcon67]

For propane, note that dual fuel generators typically seem to use double in propane what they might use in gas. Stated like the specs, run time on propane is about half that on gas. I looked at a dual fuel for using at the track, thinking a 30 lb cylinder was pretty easy to transport - but would spend more on propane than on gas to run it.

 

[sands35]

For propane, note that dual fuel generators typically seem to use double in propane what they might use in gas. Stated like the specs, run time on propane is about half that on gas. I looked at a dual fuel for using at the track, thinking a 30 lb cylinder was pretty easy to transport - but would spend more on propane than on gas to run it.

Yes, though the nice thing about propane is that it can be stored below freezing and it lasts as long as the tank lasts. (gas can be stored outside below freezing if sta-bil is used to fix any water in it.)

 

[hh76]

You could always get some batteries that you could charge with the generator. Then you wouldn't need to run the generator all day.

 

[trainer]

I use two- 100lb propane tanks with an automatic-changeover regulator. My tanks date back to the 1940's but were re-certified last year.

The generator usually gets fired up at dusk and shut off at bed time. It's not a big deal. 5 gallons of gas is more than enough for a weekend.

My water system is a 12v flojet rv-style on demand pressure pump and a maray demand propane water heater. It's supplied from a water tank that I fill from the lake with a 120v submersible sump pump. A 12v used auto battery runs the flojet and gets charged when the generator is on.
I've got a kitchen sink, bathroom vanity, shower and outside hot and cold faucets that double as system drains. All I need to do is to remember to flip a switch to fill the tank every few days while the generator is on. It's care-free other than that.

I've heard some horror stories about power bills for some seasonal residences around here, so I think i'll stick with what I have

 

[sands35]

I've heard some horror stories about power bills for some seasonal residences around here, so I think i'll stick with what I have

Likely because they left something on or they have older appliances that are not efficient. 20 year old fridges are shockingly bad at times. Leaving a water tank for 3 months of no use is just a waste.

I'd want a vacation home to be totally dead if I was going to not be there for a few months.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Honda Inverter generators are the "gold standard", and they want gold for them !

Champion is sort of the "new kid on the block" but they have been around for a few years.

I would look for a 3000W inverter generator. You can hook two 2000W generators together but it is still only 120V.

 

[finn]

Honda Inverter generators are the "gold standard", and they want gold for them !

Champion is sort of the "new kid on the block" but they have been around for a few years.

I would look for a 3000W inverter generator. You can hook two 2000W generators together but it is still only 120V.

At 2.5x the cost of a Champion inverter of the same output, calling the Honda the "gold standard " is sort of an understatement.

 

[LutzTD]

maybe also look at converting all your lighting to LED using 12vdc, you can run a whole house of LED lights from a car battery with a solar trickle charger. Then if propane can serve a lot of other things you may not need a large genset at all.

 

[checkthisout]

I run my trailer off a few batteries, a battery charger, an inverter and generator. My generator is 3000 watts, remote start inverter Yamaha.

I start the genny when I want to run the microwave a/c or charge the batteries. Otherwise my batteries just power a small inverter which gives me enough to charge phones, laptops and run the TV. The rest of the stuff is 12v so no inverter needed.


If your cabin is remote and you won't be there most of the time, stay away from solar. Your expensive gear will get stolen when you're not there and is a hassle to setup. It also won't provide enough power to do anything. If you were living there all the time there would be a minor benefit.

For now, I would get a Yamaha or Honda inverter gen, probably 3000 watts. The slightly larger unit will be quieter if it's going to have to run a fridge 24/7 (won't be revving up all the time). If you're not going to run a fridge then just get the typical suitcase 2000 watt model from either Honda or Yamaha.

 

[rlitman]

...And having full time power would allow me a refrigerator that i could keep stocked rathet than coolering everything every time I want to go for a trip there.

This just doesn't sit right with me.
What sort of stuff do you feel good about leaving in a refrigerator for months at a time? Ketchup, jelly, other condiments perhaps (though probably not mayo)? Certainly not milk or vegetables. I suppose you could keep some frozen things, but you'd be restocking it every time you're there, just to be eating (or discarding) the freezer burned stuff from the restocking the last time you were there.

Then there's the electrical cost. You've got a base monthly cost for the meter, even if you're using nothing, and then the cost to run the fridge. I'll bet that adds up to more than just the price of tossing out everything in the cooler you don't finish as you're leaving (forgetting about the fact that some stuff might make sense to bring home). Even if not, I'd think that it's worth spending a little to have fresher food.

That's not to say that a fridge is of no use. I'd just suggest powering it up when you arrive, so you don't need to stock ice. Then clean it out and leave the doors open when you leave.

 

[djcslice]

The smartest thing you can do is buy a honda generator. You wont hear it, its the easiest and cheapest solution of the ones proposed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

maybe also look at converting all your lighting to LED using 12vdc, you can run a whole house of LED lights from a car battery with a solar trickle charger. Then if propane can serve a lot of other things you may not need a large genset at all.

2 EXCELLENT SUGGESTIONS !

They still make full size propane refrigerators and freezers (mainly for the Amish), but they work well.

 

[83VillageRepair]

If the only sticking point is not cutting trees on the property that has given the easement trench the electric service down the middle of the driveway in the portion with trees and go overhead on both sides. You will need to read the easement to see what is permitted. I would certainly have that worked out prior to buying.

One other thing...air conditioners start really hard. None of the small generators being advocated are going to start an air conditioner. I would ditch the AC and use an inverter Yamaha or Honda. If you look at the output of one of those Champions on a Power Quality Oscilloscope you will see why they are so cheap (that being said if you are not running any delicate electronics the Champion would be fine).

Wade

 

[trainer]

My 3000w champion easily handles a medium sized window a/c unit. I just have to turn off the hottub to run the a/c

your definitely going to want a propane fridge if your off the grid. Stay away from the old servels, they use a lot of gas and can be dangerous if you don't maintain it properly.

I bought a Unique fridge from these guys and their customer service is excellent. I needed a new c0 detector under warranty this spring and they had it to me within two days.
http://uniqueoffgrid.com/category/propane-fridges/

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Servel and Unique size for size will consume the same amount of LP.
Choose whichever one you want. We have sold a ton of both with no real complaints on either side. The 8cu ft seems to be the most popular size around here.

 

[trainer]

Servel and Unique size for size will consume the same amount of LP.
Choose whichever one you want. We have sold a ton of both with no real complaints on either side. The 8cu ft seems to be the most popular size around here.

Sorry, I didn't mean the new Servel/ Dometic models, I was referring to the old ones from the 40's through the 60's. There are still a ton of them in service around here.

 

[TractorJeff]

Back in the early days before Rural Electrification lots of houses ran off from Battery banks. Some of the more "Well-To-Do" families had a remote start at the entrance to the house. Walk in push the button and viola, the lights came on! Hence it was maintenance intensive but so was the Cars they were driving.
Just saying, if I installed a Generator, I'd have electric start and stop with the biggest Fuel tank I could install to last the longest time period I was staying at the Cabin.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I bought a Unique fridge from these guys and their customer service is excellent. I needed a new c0 detector under warranty this spring and they had it to me within two days.
http://uniqueoffgrid.com/category/propane-fridges/

What size 'fridge do you have and approximately how much fuel per day does it consume ?

Their web site says their 22 cu ft 'fridge consume "about" 2 lbs/day, so it should be good for over a month on a 100 lb tank. (Not that you want want to be hauling 100 lb LP tanks around !)

 

[trainer]

I've got the 8 cu ft model. It's about the right size for a weekend. it says 1.1 lb per day.
I think that's an average and it uses less than that when we aren't there because it stays closed and doesn't need to chill things down.
I go through about 3 100 lb tanks a summer (May-Mid September) including cooking on a gas range. This fridge can also run off 120v and the generator easily handles it. It needs to be switched manually though.

100 lb tanks are a bit of a pain, but as long as you can back up to their location and slide them off the truck and wiggle them into place its do-able for one person.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Just saying, if I installed a Generator, I'd have electric start and stop with the biggest Fuel tank I could install to last the longest time period I was staying at the Cabin.

You will need at least a 500 gallon LP tank. Hopefully your local provider can get the truck close enough to the tank that his hose will reach it !

Get a generator that runs off of LP.

Personally, my little cabin in the woods would battery LED lights and I would only run the generator for "must have" appliances and to charge the batteries.

 

[Theron]

I'm going to look into the underground cable option and see what they say.

I don't want to be clearing a bunch of trees and then have to figure out how to work the solar system out and keep it maintained.

It's looking like a genny might be my option if buried cable won't work. I just wanted to have something easier than using a genny. And having full time power would allow me a refrigerator that i could keep stocked rathet than coolering everything every time I want to go for a trip there.

Olympus,

Agree with your first step. Sure won't hurt to know what your options are. But even if burying a line is an option, you'll probably want to have a portable generator handy as a backup. A dual fuel generator that runs on propane or gas is a good setup for your situation you described. There are lots of low cost options out there. Since propane has a lower "energy density" than gas does, you get less power output, but it's a HECKUVA lot easier to store and use once you get your tank(s) set up in place. Also, gas goes stale pretty quickly, depending on how it's stored (anywhere from a few months up to a 6 or 7 months), unless you add a fuel stabilizing additive. No matter what though, especially in a remote area, it's good to have options, and being ready with gas as a backup to the propane makes sense.