Generator Hookup to Enclosed trailer w/ 2 circuits from Generator

[39CAMC]

I have a HF 9500 Watt Inverter generator for my enclosed trailer that I use for work doing on site tire service at large autocross events.

It has the following outlets "4) 120v 20A GFCI protected outlets, 120v/240v 30A twistlock, 120v 30A twistlock, 12v 8A DC, (2) USB outlets" According to the generator label, it can output a combined 63 amps.

The tire machine requires 240v and I also use an Eastwood QST30/60 scroll compressor for air. This requires 240v and 17amps running.

Currently, I use the 120v/240v twistlock run into a standard load center/breaker box in the trailer that has a 240/30a breaker for the compressor, another for the tire machine and a few more 120v/15a for the lights and other stuff in the trailer.

This works fine, but when the compressor starts, I am obviously at the limit of the single 30a circuit I am pulling from as the lights (LED) shut off for a second and any other loads like a fan slow down for a second.

Finally to my question - is there a way I can wire that 120v 30A output circuit into my *existing* load center for my 120v stuff or do/should I just do a second load center for the 120v stuff?

DaveW

 

[slow]

The l14-30 is rated at the 30 amps, (60 amps combined) in all basic terms you get all available amps available using the L14-30 plug for a quick inrush event like you are describing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would run a seprate load center.

 

[39CAMC]

The l14-30 is rated at the 30 amps, (60 amps combined) in all basic terms you get all available amps available using the L14-30 plug for a quick inrush event like you are describing.

So, some silly questions (not arguments). How does a 30amp circuit with a 30 amp breaker output more than 30amps? Is this because it is a (relatively) quick startup load/inrush?

Something not at all related to above but I found curious - I have been getting the light shut off when the generator is on Eco Idle or whatever HF calls it where the motor idles down under low load. My former, smaller compressor that was just tasked to run the tire machine (only) would not start the tire machine when on Eco Idle and I had to turn Eco off and it worked fine. So, on the current setup, I tried turning off the Eco throttle to see if that helped with the lights dropping and not only did it NOT help with that, it blew the 30A breaker on the generator and wouldn't start the compressor at all.

As a total aside, the HF9500 Inverter stuck a valve and quit running this past week while we were at a very important event. The local HF store where I was at (LIncoln, NE) did not have another one of the Super Quiet 9500, so I picked up the open frame 8750 peak watt load unit and it would not start the compressor with the eco throttle on or off BUT if tripped the overload on the machine, not a breaker. I ended up picking up a Champion 10000/8000 open frame non inverter unit to get through the week and it worked fine (but obviously noisy)

DaveW

 

[39CAMC]

So, probably related to Slow's response, I think the generator is only outputting 63 total amps at 120v and would be 31.5 total at 240

 

[slow]

If your tripping the breaker almost immediately, than you are pulling way more than 30 amps. here is a sample breaker trip chart. https://download.schneider-electric...Drawing&p_File_Name=730-5.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=730-5 you can see how inrush can be multiples of the current rating. The 63 amps is the continuous rating of your HF 9500 machine and the 9500 is the surge capability (9500/240 = 39.585 amps per 120 volt output, for a total of 75.16 amps for startup peak @240)

Since you have tripped the breaker, then getting a separate way to connect the 120 volt loads to the generator directly is a good idea and should allow you to squeeze the last 3 amps out, but you may be better off splitting the 120 loads across the 2 120 volt plugs, as you want those loads as balanced as possible, otherwise if you get a single load center and feed it with 120 volts, you now have a load imbalance on the generator, that may cause other issues when the high inrush of your 240 volt loads turn on. Unfortunate to hear about the stuck valve, that is the first negative I have heard about on that machine. It is in my wish list if I upgrade generators to an inverter 240 volt machine.

 

[39CAMC]

What I can't figure out is why it works fine with the 9500 generator on the Eco Throttle setting where it idles up/down based on load but trips when this is turned off.

I think I am going to split the 120v to a separate load center (and separate feed) and I also ordered a slow starter (Hyper Sure Start Single Phase Soft Starter 230V (16-32 FLA) (SS1B16-32SN V230) for the compressor as well.

This should give me the most flexibility in the future if I have problems, though once I warranty/repair/replace the HF9500 generator, I will have it and the Champion 10k watt noise maker as a spare. The flexibility won't hurt if I need a generator or have the opportunity to plug into shore power that is available in a few places.

Thanks all for the time to give me info and input!

DaveW

 

[AP514]

Good choice on the Hyper Soft start........It cut my LRA in half on starts........a few threads on it in here
As Far as the trip-- make sure you are not having a big balance issue..pulling too many AMP from 1 side of the generator

 

[theoldwizard1]

Running a separate load center is a waste of time and money !

The output of the generator head (inverter) is wired directly to the 240V twist lock outlet, often with no breakers in between. All 120V circuits are fed (typically through a breaker) from this outlet. Length of the cord and gauge of the wire DOES matter !

Compressors have HUGE starting current requirements. A MicroAir Easy Start on the compressor motor would reduce this.

 

[Noltz]

What I can't figure out is why it works fine with the 9500 generator on the Eco Throttle setting where it idles up/down based on load but trips when this is turned off.

My best guess is because when you're on Eco mode your engine is running at a lower RPM. The inrush current available at lower RPM isn't sufficient to pop your breaker at that RPM. By the time the generator responds to the demand for current and ramps up the engine to 3600 RPM the spike is over. If you're already at 3600 there's enough current available to pop the breaker.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Don't confuse Eco throttle with the generator running under load.

I believe Eco throttle allows a generator to run at a specific speed no matter the load. Probably not the best when it needs that extra burst for start ups.

When the generator is under load and the motor idles down, it's basically bogging the engine due to the extreme draw in power usage.

If you're pulling max power from a generator, you shouldn't be using Eco throttle.

"layman's term"

 

[39CAMC]

Don't confuse Eco throttle with the generator running under load.

I believe Eco throttle allows a generator to run at a specific speed no matter the load. Probably not the best when it needs that extra burst for start ups.

When the generator is under load and the motor idles down, it's basically bogging the engine due to the extreme draw in power usage.

If you're pulling max power from a generator, you shouldn't be using Eco throttle.

"layman's term"

No, you have it backwards. The ECO throttle on inverter generators changes engine speed based on load so it idles down when low load, and spins up higher with large loads. There is no bogging.


DaveW

 

[NUTTSGT]

You're right Dave, I guess I've never worked my Honda that hard for it idle up under a hard load, while on Eco throttle.

Keep in mind that HD sells their generators out of the tool rental section from time to time. I picked up my Honda 2000 for about $440 and it looked like new.

 

[39CAMC]

You're right Dave, I guess I've never worked my Honda that hard for it idle up under a hard load, while on Eco throttle.

Keep in mind that HD sells their generators out of the tool rental section from time to time. I picked up my Honda 2000 for about $440 and it looked like new.

Yeah, I saw that, they have some good deals. I checked them out when I was scrambling for a replacement when the HF9500 died but nothing they had was enough power (even two 3500's ganged wouldn't be enough)

Thanks,

DaveW