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Generator Question Inverter or not?

930dreamer

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I'm being task to find a generator for a friend. They live on a hill from hell. Multiple days without power is becoming the norm during snow/freezing rain. Use would be rotating between freezer, fridge and a space heater, nothing going through the panel. They've used a borrowed generator before so they can figure out the logistics.
I'm leaning towards an HF 5000w or larger inverter setup. Open framed is an option also.
 
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theoldwizard1

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First, DO wire an inlet to the main panel ! Second, connect it using a Generator Interlock. You can control which circuits are powered by turning breakers on and off.

If you have correctly listed all of the loads, HF 3500W inverter is more than adequate. If your friend is willing to only one of those appliances at a time, the HF 2000W inverter will work.

Caveat - If the refrigerator AND the freezer start at exactly the same time, it could be a problem even on the 3500W

Open frame are louder and uses more fuel.
 

dcg9381

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That should get it done for anything 120V (it's not a 240V generator). You can't go wrong with the inverter version.
Note the "HF 5000W inverter generator (closed frame)" is actually 3900 running watts capacity.

The issue that I see with it is that it has 2 x 120V on a single 20A breaker. So it's only going to provide you 120V * 20A * 80% continuous = 1920 running watts on that outlet unless you split from the TT-30R which has a 30A breaker.

Inverter or not, will it harm a microwave not using an inverter?

We use non-inverter generators with microwaves in RVs all the time.
 
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930dreamer

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First, DO wire an inlet to the main panel ! Second, connect it using a Generator Interlock. You can control which circuits are powered by turning breakers on and off.

If you have correctly listed all of the loads, HF 3500W inverter is more than adequate. If your friend is willing to only one of those appliances at a time, the HF 2000W inverter will work.

Caveat - If the refrigerator AND the freezer start at exactly the same time, it could be a problem even on the 3500W

Open frame are louder and uses more fuel.
Snows starting this weekend so no way of any panel work. But yes they are behind the power curve, ha ha.
 

75gmck25

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If they want the most flexibility, something like the generator panel below allows you to pick 12 circuits to backup, and then decide which of these circuits will get your 30 amp generator power. I don't know anything about this brand, so it's not a brand recommendation.


This one has a 50 amp capacity for 10 circuits. https://www.northerntool.com/produc...PT6Fmwqkii-hfRVdsmLl1ex0ic9dugnEaAn4bEALw_wcB
 

Firstram

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I back-feed our panel with a 2200 through an interlock. It has no problem running the basics and we fire up the paralleled 2200 to run the coffee pot or microwave. It will almost run for 24 hours on a 20lb propane tank.
 

hobie18

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I would get a nice generator and switch and..... do they have natural gas, propane, or even diesel?
 

dave*99

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If they want the most flexibility, something like the generator panel below allows you to pick 12 circuits to backup, and then decide which of these circuits will get your 30 amp generator power. I don't know anything about this brand, so it's not a brand recommendation.


This one has a 50 amp capacity for 10 circuits. https://www.northerntool.com/products/reliance-loadside-prewired-generator-transfer-switch-10-circuits-125-250-volts-50-amps-12-500-watts-model-51410c-100005?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Generators > Generator Accessories > Generator Transfer Switches&utm_campaign=Reliance&utm_content=100005&ogmap=SHP|PLA|GOOG|STND|c|SITEWIDE|OOT|{campaign_name}|{adgroup}||168638636|8715913796&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADpPfbOVBSDIgL2DXOt4rIHa591aT&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4-y8BhC3ARIsAHmjC_EwjuMuuOt79PUFlovQSU2PT6Fmwqkii-hfRVdsmLl1ex0ic9dugnEaAn4bEALw_wcB
That approach was popular before interlocks became widely available for many load centers. Interlocks are easier to install, cheaper, and able to power any circuit in the house. Of course the user must still respect the capacity of the generator.

An inlet can be conveniently located outdoors where you might site the generator. My interlock is located about 30 feet from the main load center.

The only challenge with an interlock is finding space in the load center for the additional 2 pole breaker.
 

dave*99

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I'm being task to find a generator for a friend. They live on a hill from hell. Multiple days without power is becoming the norm during snow/freezing rain. Use would be rotating between freezer, fridge and a space heater, nothing going through the panel. They've used a borrowed generator before so they can figure out the logistics.
I'm leaning towards an HF 5000w or larger inverter setup. Open framed is an option also.
Inverter generators have become less expensive. It's a good choice if you are making a purchase.
When picking a size, consider fuel consumption and availability. Oversized means more fill ups etc.
How have they managed that in the past?

It looks like the user intends to shuffle extension cords around and manage loads as they have done in the past.

With frequent outages, it may be time to consider a whole house generator.....
 

bluwolf

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The only challenge with an interlock is finding space in the load center for the additional 2 pole breaker.

I had that problem. I just installed a couple tandem breakers and problem solved.
 
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dcg9381

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If they want the most flexibility, something like the generator panel below allows you to pick 12 circuits to backup, and then decide which of these circuits will get your 30 amp generator power. I don't know anything about this brand, so it's not a brand recommendation.
I'd rather have an interlock on the main panel and pick and choose my circuits, which could be changed depending on what I want to power.
It's also way cheaper to do. I wired up a 50A inlet, but use 7000 watt inverter generator in the shop. Can go bigger later if I want to.
 

dave*99

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These are pricey, but require minimal labor. If you are paying for labor, this may be cheaper in some cases.
Generlink. 30,40,50 amp versions are available.
Some utility companies will even sell you one and install it.

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ToolsRCool

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Used construction site Kubota powered light tower. 6kW, 30 gallon integrated tank, mobile, small, quiet, sips fuel, weatherproof enclosure, uber reliable, and $1,000. Absolutely love mine, 8kW. Liquid cooled diesels are on another level when it comes to longevity vs loud air cooled high speed gasoline utility engines.

My fuel burn rate is 2g/24hr lightly loaded. If you are running a gasoline generator for days, it will have you on a leash refilling it. They do work, but you can do even better for the same $. Diesel fuel never sours either. I'll start it and then won't touch it for days, not even checking to see if the power came back on, works that well, don't hear it when sleeping at night due to the low speed 1800rpm it runs.

Neighborhood ends up coming over to our house every time. Can even remove and mount the power unit in garage or in a shed or doghouse if you don't have room for a small trailer. They are built to run non-stop, unattended. I had genuine Honda units before, sold them all.
 

ToolsRCool

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How many hours on it? Buy it used?
Yes, used on eBay. They go for even less at local equipment auctions. I've seen them as low as $750 or such.

Mine has 7,700 hours when I bought it. Kubota rates the engines for 10,000 hour service life, but they typically go way further with any maintenance done. I've seen them for sale at that price level with between 2,200 hours and 21,000 hours on the meter, all operational.

They get a lot smaller if you cut the light tower off and just use it as a doghouse genset on the tiny trailer. But the few around me that liked mine went and bought the same and kept the lights, and have used them to hold night time functions in their yard like ice skating, have loaned them out for parties, etc..... A 4 lamp unit is rated to illuminate about 6.5 acres, 1500 watts per bulb.

The gen heads are brushless, so really only 1 end bearing to wear out. Some say they are not great at regulating voltage and such, and I get it, but other "specific" portable and gasoline home generators use the same tuned capacitor brushless regulation as well. Mine runs everything in the house without issue, electronics or not. Fridge, mini-splits, high efficiency furnace, computers, Wi-Fi, dart board, microwave, laptop and phone chargers, everything is on and working even at the same time and no faults reporting anywhere. Seriously can't tell the difference from when grid power is up except rest of the street is mostly dark.

At least for me, it has been absolutely fabulous. During a several day outage last winter, neighbors were running their gasoline ones so long consecutively that they had to shut them down for oil changes during. Diesel just belts it out, check on it a week later. Tow it up to the fuel station when done to refill it with 15 gallons of untaxed off-road diesel fuel (legally), no fuel cans stored everywhere going stale. The model I bought and have is an Allmand NL-5000, this is an 8kW model, and will be priced higher than a more commonly found 6kW model. An Allmand Pro model will also be an 8kW. But, 6kW is usually plenty, as that is the continuous rating, these do not have surge ratings. 8kW's are more rare. I paid $1,500 for mine last year on eBay plus $400 to ship it from TX to MI, so $1,900 to my door. 3 of the 4 lamps did not work, I sawed the tower off and scrapped that portion and ballasts anyway. Washed the engine, changed the oil and filters, put a new fan belt and battery on it, and haven't touched it since. Used it a bunch. Loan it out all the time for chili cook-off's, etc....

I'd target the Kubota engine, they are the best compact diesels in the industry from a quality perspective. The Isuzu and Mitsubishi diesels can be pretty good as well, but you for sure want to avoid the Kohler diesels in them at all costs, those are junk. Most for sale with a Kohler will have a blown engine.

I at first bought a 6kW, and loaned it to my elder parents because they are more remote than I, so their power is out for days until restored when it happens. It was the first genset my mom was able to sleep at night while running, and my dad never had to check on it for refueling. She begged me to keep it to make their life easier, so I said sure no problem, and just went and bought a second one. Up to that point he was running a really nice Honda 6500 watt electric start construction model genset. They are great, but in comparison, loud and fuel thirsty. Way better than nothing, but if starting from nothing, I would now only go straight to a used light tower. Pull the power pack and mount it if you can't store the trailer.

Just checked eBay completed auctions, a fully working 8kW is selling in the $770-$1,500 range as of January 2025. Liquid cooled Kubota diesel vs Harbor Freight whatever is not a hard decision for me.
 
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ericm

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We recently replaced our 27 year old Honda with one of their inverter units. It's so much quieter!

We found out recently that some modern fridges have little excess cooling capacity and take a long time to get down to temp. The 20 year old fridge we had until a couple years ago would keep cold in hot weather if I ran it 8-10 hours a day. The new one needs longer each day to get back down to temp so I have to run the generator more.
 

SwissMetric

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Transfer switches are fairly basic devices. It must just be made sure that contacts cannot overlap and that some requirements about contact opening distances are met (in simple words).

I've seen very expensive transfer switches which were merely basic mechanically interlocked switches. In low voltage they're available up to 6300 A, for the larger ones using common breakers without releases, above it becomes more tricky. Here referring to the IEC world, not North America.

I won't comment small gensets without synchronous generator. I hate those small gensets with asynchronous generators, even a well-known German brand is a major PITA once you've a problem. So many versions that they aren't even able to find out which wiring diagram corresponds to a specific model.

AFAIK inverter gensets have a poor overload rating, That said, asynchronous generators are messy too. Where required the motor direct starting capability should be checked very carefully.
 

theoldwizard1

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I won't comment small gensets without synchronous generator. I hate those small gensets with asynchronous generators, ...
You will have to explain synchronous generator vs. asynchronous generators for those of us on this side of the pond.
 

dave*99

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You will have to explain synchronous generator vs. asynchronous generators for those of us on this side of the pond.
Your typical open frame 5000W generator (non inverter) is synchronous. Engine RPM determines output frequency. 1800 or 3600 rpm typical for 60Hz.

Asynchronous generators match their frequency to the system they are connected to (under proper conditions.)

 

dave*99

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Kind of a "so what" if the grid is already down ! Nothing to match to.
Inverter generators use asynchronous generators to feed the inverter circuitry. And the engines do not run at a constant speed.
I don't think this thread is addressing grid tied generators.
 

walta

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Dutzow Missouri
If they are on well water 240 Volts and powering it thru the panel is almost required.

HF inverter only 9500 Watts has 240 Volts.

Walta
 
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