generator question

[mikester]

I dont know if this is in the right place but is anybody out there up on standby generators ? I have a Generac 7500XL portable that I was going to use to keep my lights and heat going in a power failure. I was shopping for a manual transfer switch just up to 2 weeks ago. Last week I had major surgery and Im going to be laid up until the end of October. Yesterday we had a small storm and we were without power for 5 or 6 hours. We got through it OK but I started to think about how I would have been doing if it was a hot humid day and I didnt have AC. Not that it would have been a problem any other time but due to this operation Im in alot of pain and it wouldnt have been too swift to sit there and bake. Or freeze if it was the winter and I was in the same condition. Im thinking about getting a 10 to 13KW propane generator and just have it wired in on the auto transfer setup. I dont have NG on my road. Im looking at Kohler and Generac units. I cant afford diesel but that would have been my first choice. 1800 RPMs last forever. But way to much for me to spend. Do any of you guys have a Kohler or Generac ? Pros and cons about these ? Im open to all comments and info ! Thanks

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Our homeowners assn has a portable 10K Dayton, made by Genrac with a Genrac V-twin. It works pretty good, we use it to run a 5 hp well pump, but it is rarely needed for that. I've used it more for odd jobs I've done for the HOA, such as water main repair (operating an electric sump pump), or to power a drill or such, in a location remote to electricity.

Its gasoline powered. MX has been OK but its cold natured to start (electric starter).

Charles

 

[CraigFL]

I looked at my power usage and am going to buy a 8KW NG unit-- Generac. The plan is to put a small window A/C unit in the bedroom where we will live until the power comes back on. I can't justify the extrta expense for a larger unit just so we can run the central A/C unit.

I want NG because I can't see storing all that gas or diesel for an extended time. You may want to downsize your unit and use LP....

 

[mikester]

Ive got to go with LP since NG is not even close to my road. Im going to have an electrician come over and see how big of a generator I actually need. Im sure he will be installing it too. But I dont know which is a better built unit. Generac has been around for a long time. So has Kohler. But after making a few calls today I found out that the Kohler units have to be installed by one of their authorized dealers or the warranty is voided. I have to call Generac to see if they have the same policy. I can see it now, hundreds more for the generator and big $$ for them to do the install.

 

[CraigFL]

You can install Generac yourself. See here for general info:

www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com

For sizing, most larger generators have the A/C tons it can start which would give you the size if you wanted to run your central air. Watch the fuel consumption specs at 1/2 load and full load to see how big a LP tank you need.

 

[Ira]

I literally had one of these set in place and bolted down about two hours ago...

http://zillerelectric.com/mm5/merch...de=ZLL&Product_Code=GEN5638&Category_Code=GLC

I did not purchase the generator from Ziller Electric (the above website), but I have heard they have good prices and support. They have a forum that had some pretty good information in it.

The 5638 is a new model (Guardian/Generac revamped most of their residential line over the past year). This model only became available this month and replaced an 18kW unit I was about to buy. It was delivered sooner than expected (12 days instead of the 28 days estimate) so I'm not quite ready for it to be put in service. I am purchasing it from my local Guardian/Generac dealer and they are doing the install/startup. Installation by the dealer is not cheap and could probably be done cheaper by an independent electrician (or by a knowledgeable homeowner), but I don't want to take a chance at being at the bottom of the dealer's service priority list (because he didn't install it) if I need help.

This model is 1800 RPM, liquid cooled, LPG, so it should last a while. I am in hurricane country so that is the primary reason I bought it. Having it for the occasional power outages that last a few minutes to a few hours is icing on the cake. It will be hooked up to power my entire house, including a 4 ton A/C and a 1.5 horse water well pump. My furnace, cooktop, and water heater are LPG.

Good luck.
Ira

 

[thammel]

I can probably help also. We have a buried propane tank so I used propane for fuel. It's a good option and if you don't have a buried tank can have a freestanding one. I did the total install myself but had the propane people connect up the LP. I installed an 8kw winco generator. True, it's air cooled and runs at 3600 rpm but it doesn't run that much. Also, the automatic transfer switch is a very heavy duty one that feeds a subpanel I installed. This way, there is more flexibility in the circuits that the generator feeds...the typical transfer switch you get from generac is limited to the number of circuits that the transfer switch is set up for - I think it's about 8. My approach of using the subpanel means you're only limited by the number of circuits the subpanel handles. The system works great and has saved us a couple of times already. Previously I had a portable unit with a manual transfer switch and had to wheel the generator outside, connect up, etc. This system is great is that it comes on if we're not home, or the middle of the night, etc.

Good luck!
Tom

 

[UnionWelder]

why propane or NG? it puts out 30-50 % less power then a Gasoline generator?

 

[larry4406]

why propane or NG? it puts out 30-50 % less power then a Gasoline generator?

These setups are permanent units that do their thing unattended. That means a fuel source to. With natural gas you will have virtually unlimited supply to ride out the storm unless the compressor station goes down. With LP, the shared 1000 gallon tank with the house or dedicated tank will also keep you going for quite awhile. With gas, well, it degrades over time in standby (gums up) and how much are you going to keep around for the bad storm day?

 

[mikester]

I dont like to keep gas around for more than a couple of months. Its not like home heating oil. I fill my 1000 gallon tank once a year. I think gas goes bad quickly these days. I wish there was NG on my street. I know its on the main street going through the town and on some of the side roads but hell, we just got city water 7 years ago and that was because of a gas station that had a bad tank and the gas was in our water. Small town life, I wouldnt trade it for anything in the world !! Im starting to shop around for a generator and there are some good prices and bad. I still have to get an electrician to tell me how many KW I need. Im off until mid to end of Oct so Ive got alot of time to shop !

 

[JohnZ]

I have an 18-KW Generac fully-automatic standby system that was installed in June, 2003, six weeks before the famous 3-day "northern grid failure" (timing is everything ); all we had to do was reset the digital clocks. Previously, had a 5-KW portable and a transfer switch, but we had to be home to drag it outside, plug it in, and feed it gasoline, and every power failure we had occurred on weekends when we were out of town. Best investment I ever made - all it's needed in the five years since I've had it is a starter. There's great peace of mind knowing that we'll never be without power again, regardless of Detroit Edison.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=359956

 

[Project-Z]

I have installed two of the 10KW Generac units. One for my office, and one for my old boss. The only prolem is that the NG units require 11-14" water column of gas pressure, and most residences and small commercial buildings only have 7" gas pressure after the meter. We had to have the gas utility company engineers involved to get the required higher pressure and also a licensed mechanical contractor to install the piping and pressure regulators to the existing equipment on both jobs. The new gas service was about $900.00 four years ago, not counting what the contractor charged to install the piping and regulators. Its not that I couldn't install the piping, the gas utility would not raise the pressure until the contractor signed off on the forms.

The propane unit should be fine, as it requires 11-14" also, and that is what normal propane pressure is.

I installed the generators, transfer switches, and hired the contractor to install the natural gas piping. The units have worked flawlessly over the past four years. I want one for my next house.

Good luck.

 

[Sundowner]

I have a 7.5kW Generac plumbed into my natural gas, but it otherwise operates the same as what you're talking about. I live in a lakefront house, so when big storms hit, the power goes out, the sump pump doesn't work, and the basement turns into a swimming pool. always a mess.

Now it's soooooo different. Last storm, I was brushing my teeth before bed, the power went out, I waited 20 seconds for the generator to turn the power back on, I finished brushing my teeth, and went straight to bed. gotta love it.

 

[KnightFire]

Can those of you with these large generators post some pics? I've been doing the research, trying to figure out what I need and can only seem to find suitable locations for a unit with a smaller footprint. I'd like to see how you guys have yours setup.

So far I've narrowed it down to one unit (I think), but am open to suggestions as well. I like the http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07132701000P Briggs&Stratton 'Power Now' gen, simply because it can use 20lb LP tanks, the same as my grill and fire pit (which means I always have tanks around).

I do not have a LP/NG tank buried in the yard and do not like the aesthetics of the free standing tanks, plus free standing tanks are against the covenants of my HOA. There are no LP/NG lines in my neighborhood.

The cost of burying a large LP tank would be substantial, much more than what I can afford at this point. I just want to be able to weather a power outage (run the well pump, sump pump, sewage pump, fridge and maybe the microwave) I figure 7KW should do the trick for those tasks.

I apologize to the OP, I don't mean to hijack your thread, I would just like to see how you guys set up your various back up gennys and thought if you guys could post up some photos, that may further my understanding of the true foot print of these large units.

TKS!

 

[Rob Hughes]

Good sale on this one, I just bought one last night...nothing like waiting till the last minute. LOL Hurry sales runs till midnight tonight.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100466724

$2600 delivered didn't seem like a bad deal for 13kw.

 

[Junkman]

I looked at the specifications, and it didn't give an amount of pounds of propane that it consumed an hour. This is important, since if it is a high consumption unit, you won't want to be running it for very long.. I also don't remember seeing if it is 1800 or 3600 RPM. It it is a 3600 RPM unit, it will be quiet loud and your neighbors might object to it in the nighttime.

 

[Ira]

You can find all the spec's here...

http://www.guardiangenerators.com/PublicPDFs/GUARDIAN7.10.13kW.pdf

I think all air cooled Guardian generators are 3600 RPM, as are some of the liquid cooled models.

That particular model is no longer being manufactured. It has been replaced by model 5503 which is a 14kW generator. It does look like you got a good price, even for a discontinued model.

One downside of a 3600 RPM air cooled Guardian generator is that the manufacturer recommends changing the oil every 24 hours of continuous use. Guardian 1800 RPM liquid cooled models, according to the manual, should have the oil changed every 100 hours of continuous use. If you experience outages that last for days instead of hours, this might be something to consider.

Ira

 

[mikester]

The liquid cooled models are usually the higher KW generators. OR the diesel powered sets that cost much more to buy. Ive seen a couple of 1800 RPM Honda powered generators but they dont have the outdoor housings. I dont think a small LP tank will keep a generator running that long. I doubt if it would last overnight but if someone knows better please correct me if Im wrong.

 

[Ira]

The liquid cooled models are usually the higher KW generators. OR the diesel powered sets that cost much more to buy. Ive seen a couple of 1800 RPM Honda powered generators but they dont have the outdoor housings. I dont think a small LP tank will keep a generator running that long. I doubt if it would last overnight but if someone knows better please correct me if Im wrong.

I think the smallest 1800 RPM liquid cooled Guardian generator in the new lineup is the one I just took delivery of (see post #6 above). List price is over $8K, but you can buy them for under $7K with free shipping and no sales tax. Note that when you get into the larger, more expensive units, the ATS is not included in the price. My ATS will cost a little over $1K. Then there's the installation costs, which aren't cheap. Last year's model (18kW) is still available from some dealers for several hundred dollars cheaper. My home is on a 250 gallon LPG tank which lasts us a few months between refills. That's not near enough fuel for the generator for an extended outage (several days or more), so I am getting a 500 gallon tank exclusively for the generator. That should allow it to run continuously for a week or so without refilling. My generator supposedly uses 2 gallons per hour at 50% load.

Ira

 

[JohnZ]

I have installed two of the 10KW Generac units. One for my office, and one for my old boss. The only prolem is that the NG units require 11-14" water column of gas pressure, and most residences and small commercial buildings only have 7" gas pressure after the meter. We had to have the gas utility company engineers involved to get the required higher pressure and also a licensed mechanical contractor to install the piping and pressure regulators to the existing equipment on both jobs. The new gas service was about $900.00 four years ago, not counting what the contractor charged to install the piping and regulators.

When mine was installed (see post above), my gas company installed the new high-flow meter and higher-pressure secondary regulator for free; the house gas remains at 0.6 psi (3/4" line), and the secondary feed to the Generac is 2.0 psi (2" line). At full load, it consumes the equivalent of 250,000 BTU/hr.

See photos in the link in my earlier post.