Generator Questions

[The Ratchet Man]

So after the ice storm we had down here and the several day long power outages that followed, I have decided to invest in a generator. I would like a nicer decent sized one but would like to stay under the $2000 range. I've had good service from my North Star pressure washer from Northern Tool and they do service in house, so I'm leaning heavily toward that particular brand.

Now the only way I can justify a larger generator is if it will run my welder. This would be a great benefit and i would get alot more use out of it. I bought the Lincoln Pro Mig 180 a while back from Lowes. It requires a 40A breaker in the house, runs on 220V and has a dryer size plug. I can get more detailed specs this evening if needed.

My questions are, what size generator out of that brand would allow me the full potential of my welder? Also, none of the generators have the correct outlet for my plug. Do I need an adapter and which one would you recommend?

I'm open to other suggestions for brands and such, but the warranty and local in house service are a big benefit to me.

 

[firebox40dash5]

You're looking at 9kw or so to run that welder at full strength. Probably a little less really, since 8800w would be blowing the breaker, but close enough.

Nothing is gonna have a dryer-type plug on it, probably twistlock, or just plain old terminals. Make your own adapter... an outlet, a weatherproof box, some HEAVY (I'm talking 8/3 or even 6/3) wire, and whatever you need for the generator end. I made an extension cord for our MIG at work that way since we also use a dryer plug. If you want to get fancy, you can use a larger box and include regular 120v outlets as well if you use 4-conductor wire.

 

[ishiboo]

You're looking at 9kw or so to run that welder at full strength. Probably a little less really, since 8800w would be blowing the breaker, but close enough.

Nothing is gonna have a dryer-type plug on it, probably twistlock, or just plain old terminals. Make your own adapter... an outlet, a weatherproof box, some HEAVY (I'm talking 8/3 or even 6/3) wire, and whatever you need for the generator end. I made an extension cord for our MIG at work that way since we also use a dryer plug. If you want to get fancy, you can use a larger box and include regular 120v outlets as well if you use 4-conductor wire.

If you go off breaker size, 40*240 is 9600W. Probably a 12kw starting generator or larger. Actual power input at 180A should be only about 7.2kw. (Rated is 130A output, 20A input at only 30% duty cycle)

I'd look for a 7kw running or larger.

 

[firebox40dash5]

If you go off breaker size, 40*240 is 9600W. Probably a 12kw starting generator or larger. Actual power input at 180A should be only about 7.2kw. (Rated is 130A output, 20A input at only 30% duty cycle)

I'd look for a 7kw running or larger.

My bad, I used 220v instead of 240v.

I don't know what efficiency is to know more specifically than that based off of output power.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

Here's a link to my welder on the Lincoln website. There are a couple of PDF files with the specs. Lincoln Pro Mig 180

So making an adapter is pretty much how everyone does it? I figured a company might offer something but haven't been able to find anything.

Anything else I might need to know or need to buy to make this work?

A 7000kw-9000kw generator is getting up there in price a bit. If it's what I need I guess I'll have to bite the bullet. I'd hate to be underpowered because I wanted to same a few bucks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you READ THE OWNERS MANUAL on the Lincoln Pro Mig 180, it says 20A at 230V, but use a time delay 40A fuse.

Generator in the 5000-6250 watt range are pretty common and have a peak start power of up to 8100 watts (about 32A at 240V) This should be adequate, but the only way you will know for sure is plug in your welder and give it a try.

This range of generator typically come with a L14-30R receptacle so you will either need a different plug or an adapter.


As for brands, Honda (not just the engine), Generac or Briggs.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

If I wanted that ability to weld during a power outage, I'd just go get a used engine driven welder which you can then plug stuff into to use as just a power source. I picked up a used Trailblazer for 500 bucks that has run all critical stuff for a few days-long outages. The only drawback is that machine uses more fuel than a generator only machine.

 

[mechan]

If I wanted that ability to weld during a power outage, I'd just go get a used engine driven welder which you can then plug stuff into to use as just a power source. I picked up a used Trailblazer for 500 bucks that has run all critical stuff for a few days-long outages. The only drawback is that machine uses more fuel than a generator only machine.

Agreed, if you want to have a portable welder / be able to power your house then you should find an engine driven welder. Buying a portable generator to then power your welder is sort of counter intuitive.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If I wanted that ability to weld during a power outage, I'd just go get a used engine driven welder which you can then plug stuff into to use as just a power source. I picked up a used Trailblazer for 500 bucks that has run all critical stuff for a few days-long outages. The only drawback is that machine uses more fuel than a generator only machine.

You got a smoking good deal on it ! I doubt that the OP could find a decent Miller Bobcat or Trailblazer for under $2000.

 

[ishiboo]

If you READ THE OWNERS MANUAL on the Lincoln Pro Mig 180, it says 20A at 230V, but use a time delay 40A fuse.

Generator in the 5000-6250 watt range are pretty common and have a peak start power of up to 8100 watts (about 32A at 240V) This should be adequate, but the only way you will know for sure is plug in your welder and give it a try.

This range of generator typically come with a L14-30R receptacle so you will either need a different plug or an adapter.


As for brands, Honda (not just the engine), Generac or Briggs.

Unfortunately that's not the case. The ProMig 180 is capable of 180A output, it's RATED output is 130A which is the 20A figure. So if you limit yourself to 20A/240v, you won't be able to use the full rating of the welder. There is no idea what voltage is at 180A so it's hard to say the exact figure, I figured a very conservative value of 7kw.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

If you READ THE OWNERS MANUAL on the Lincoln Pro Mig 180, it says 20A at 230V, but use a time delay 40A fuse.

Generator in the 5000-6250 watt range are pretty common and have a peak start power of up to 8100 watts (about 32A at 240V) This should be adequate, but the only way you will know for sure is plug in your welder and give it a try.

This range of generator typically come with a L14-30R receptacle so you will either need a different plug or an adapter.


As for brands, Honda (not just the engine), Generac or Briggs.

I've read the manual front to back. If you don't know what the numbers mean that you are looking at, then you wind up here asking for advise...which I'm humbly doing.

If I wanted that ability to weld during a power outage, I'd just go get a used engine driven welder which you can then plug stuff into to use as just a power source. I picked up a used Trailblazer for 500 bucks that has run all critical stuff for a few days-long outages. The only drawback is that machine uses more fuel than a generator only machine.

Welding during a power outage is not of concern to me. I want to make my welder portable. The generator is for the power outages. When you start getting into welders of the size you're talking about I will be over my head. I would never need that much welder especially since I've already got one that meets my needs. I just need to figure out what I need to completely power it.

Agreed, if you want to have a portable welder / be able to power your house then you should find an engine driven welder. Buying a portable generator to then power your welder is sort of counter intuitive.

Easy enough to explain a generator if it'll keep the youngins warm when the power is out. Explaining to the Ol' Lady how a new welder will keep the youngins warm will probably put me in the cold.

Unfortunately that's not the case. The ProMig 180 is capable of 180A output, it's RATED output is 130A which is the 20A figure. So if you limit yourself to 20A/240v, you won't be able to use the full rating of the welder. There is no idea what voltage is at 180A so it's hard to say the exact figure, I figured a very conservative value of 7kw.

These are the kind of numbers I need help figuring out. I'm not that great with "house" electrical and sure wouldn't want to base a large purchase on my limited knowledge of it.

 

[mechan]

You've just got to explain it to the wife like this "What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine!"

Then show up with a new Miller Big 40 and a Crew Cab Diesel.

You never know someday you may want to go try your hand at being a Pipeliner, so really she should understand this is about saving money in the future. It's all about the long game.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Okay everyone read the attached spec sheet. Near the bottom of the second page

Rated Output - Current/Voltage/Duty Cycle
208V: 130A/17.6V/30%
230V: 130A/20V/30%

Input Current @ Rated Output - 20A

And don't forget I said

Generator in the 5000-6250 watt range are pretty common and have a peak start power of up to 8100 watts (about 32A at 240V) This should be adequate, but the only way you will know for sure is plug in your welder and give it a try.

 

[BLJ]

i have ran my hobart 187 mig off of a 8250 surge/5500 continuos generator welding 1/4" steel. any where from tack welds to 5-6" welds. weld, grind, weld, grind ect.. for 6-8 hours. taking breaks here and there. i was running it off of a 240v- 30amp breaker with a25' extension cord. never tripped a breaker and teh cord never got hot. ran it pretty hard, too. i would suggest a bigger generator, but it can be done.

on the other hand, i bought my hobart champion elite engine drive (225 miller bobcat clone) for $900 w/ 450 hours. 43 amps @ 240v. hope this helps

 

[ishiboo]

Okay everyone read the attached spec sheet. Near the bottom of the second page

Rated Output - Current/Voltage/Duty Cycle
208V: 130A/17.6V/30%
230V: 130A/20V/30%

Input Current @ Rated Output - 20A

Its RATED current is 130A. You can use 20A conductors. Its maximum current is 180A. It will draw MORE than 20A at that rating. So if you only use a generator capable of 20A, you won't be able to use its full nameplate rating.

Similarly, if you are welding at a lower amperage, you can get by with a comparably smaller generator. That will run off a 2000W generator at an appreciably low output.

And don't forget I said

Sure, you can try it out all you want, or you can just size the generator according to how you want to use the welder

 

[theoldwizard1]

180A x 20V = 3600 watts.

Assume a 75% efficiency 3600 / .75 = 4,800 watts

Let's be blunt, neither of us know for 100% certain, but I am willing to accept BLJ findings.


Of course, if the OP could find say a Miller Bobcat 225 with a full MIG setup for less than $2,000 plus whatever he could sell his Pro Mig 180 for, I would say buy it !

 

[The Ratchet Man]

So y'all got me looking at Generac. Northern has free shipping to the house which is nice. Would you say this one would meet my needs: Generac XG8000E

What about electric start? Is it worth it or just something else to repair when it stops working. I don't see where it says it has a recoil start back up.

 

[kc-steve]

I have run my stick welder on a 5000 watt generator without a problem. I wasn't operating at "full potential" and to be honest, how often do any of us operate a welder at the top end?

I found the 5kw genset to fill my needs quite well, but I try not to rely on it for everything in the house. It's kinda odd looking to see my house the only one on the block with lights. It reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where the neighbors started beating down a poor guys doors to get in.

Steve

 

[sberry]

The most you can wring thru that Linc with 030 is about 23A, it would run from 5500 probably. Might get a bit more from it with larger flux cored wire if a guy worked at it, beyond the need of the op.

Personally, the 180 is a great welder but would leave it home, buy a cheap 5500 and a Miller Maxstar for 800 for portable work. In todays world would have to seriously consider this vs an engine drive welder for small work. Runs on 1/3 the fuel and can actually do most work from land power with the Max. China makes one cheaper that works fairly well.

 

[toolslinger]

You may want to start adding up the loads you're going to want to run in your home as well. You might find your draw might be more in the house than the welder.

When the power goes down in the summer, I have a bigger draw on the generator than in the winter. AC units can really start pulling down power. Do you need AC if the power goes down? Ask the wife and kids... Or better yet think about if you can stand the complaints when it isn't running.
For the winter, I have gas fired hot water heat, so it has a very small electrical need. Some of my friends have forced air. Lots more current need there for the blowers and such. It was a real pain figuring everyone's needs out on the fly after Sandy came through and I had my 4 gennies out running for days...

 

[theoldwizard1]

So y'all got me looking at Generac. Northern has free shipping to the house which is nice. Would you say this one would meet my needs: Generac XG8000E

No problem.

I think you could comfortably go down at least one notch Generac GP7500E

What about electric start? Is it worth it or just something else to repair when it stops working. I don't see where it says it has a recoil start back up.

First, yes it does have a pull start. Some where above 10hp, pull starting is not a good idea. My 5500 watt, 10hp, starts on the second or third pull every time (I do the first pull with the gas on and the ignition off). I would not want an electric start because it is one more battery to maintain.


Last couple of thoughts. Be careful about buying ANY generator over the internet ! This things are heavy and not necessarily packaged well for shipping. If you do have it shipped to your house, open it and inspect it BEFORE the truck driver leaves.

Second, on any mail order purchase, check with the company regarding warranty and find out if there are any shops close by that are authorized repair centers. Some companies will not honor warranty claims on mail order purchases.

 

[firebox40dash5]

You may want to start adding up the loads you're going to want to run in your home as well. You might find your draw might be more in the house than the welder.

When the power goes down in the summer, I have a bigger draw on the generator than in the winter. AC units can really start pulling down power. Do you need AC if the power goes down? Ask the wife and kids... Or better yet think about if you can stand the complaints when it isn't running.
For the winter, I have gas fired hot water heat, so it has a very small electrical need. Some of my friends have forced air. Lots more current need there for the blowers and such. It was a real pain figuring everyone's needs out on the fly after Sandy came through and I had my 4 gennies out running for days...

All of my needs and wants got hashed out last time the power was out for 4 days and the genny was sucking down a gallon an hour.... just with a 6500w. Running AC? Screw that, get fans. Oil heat and hot water, so no big worries there. Also have a well pump, so I really need a transfer switch.

Seriously, blowing $50-80 or more daily put it in perspective for me quite well, not to mention the hassle of getting & handling that much fuel. I don't even think about the generator until about 36 hours in anymore. If it were my money, I'd prefer a good sized inverter unit. Run what you can in the house, and pick up a 110 welder for portability.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

So I've been doing a little more searching with all the new advise y'all have given me and I think I'm going with the Generac 10,000/8,000kw unit. I spoke to Northern Tool today and they also advised against ordering through the website.

They said they would order it for me with the free shipping to the store. If there was any damage during shipping, they would handle that too. They also said that if the store ordered it they would handle any warranty issues or repairs, instead of having to go through Generac. This sealed the deal.

The guy said they usually roatate on sale 2 or 3 times a year. I'll wait till then since I dont have to have it right now. I also mentioned to him that I'm in the market for a log splitter and he said he would cut me a deal on both if I bought them on the same transaction, along with any coupons I could round up. They were real nice to deal with.

Thanks for the help.

 

[theoldwizard1]

So I've been doing a little more searching with all the new advise y'all have given me and I think I'm going with the Generac 10,000/8,000kw unit.

If this is really for backup, you had better have 10-20 gallons of fuel on hand at all times. Also, your fuel should be "rotated". Dump one 5 gallon can into your vehicle once a month and refill.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

If this is really for backup, you had better have 10-20 gallons of fuel on hand at all times. Also, your fuel should be "rotated". Dump one 5 gallon can into your vehicle once a month and refill.

This was one of the reasons I wanted one capable of running some of my other things, so that it isn't just sitting. The welder was one of the big ones but there are parades I pull trailers in that have billions of lights, parties in the field and other jobs it can be used for. Not to mention that if I'm in the garage working and the generator hasn't been run for a while, I'll just plug some lights and power tools up and run with it instead of house power to keep it in use. My gas rarely sits anyways because I've got about 9 other gas powered pieces that love to drink the stuff.

One thing I was wondering about is auto-idle. This one doesn't have it but it would seem to be a nice option. Is this a feature common to smaller generators, and mine just doesn't have it, or is it mainly for the larger dedicated units?

 

[theoldwizard1]

...if I'm in the garage working and the generator hasn't been run for a while, I'll just plug some lights and power tools up and run with it ...

Obviously you have not been around any medium sized generators !

I do the same thing every few months. I pull my generator a "portable" 20 gallon 2hp 240V compressor out of my detached garage and fire them up for at least 15 minutes. Then I go in the house because it is so damn loud I can not think !

... there are parades I pull trailers in that have billions of lights ...

And I guarantee you will drown out the band !

One thing I was wondering about is auto-idle. This one doesn't have it but it would seem to be a nice option.

I think what you are calling "auto-idle" is actually the variable engine speed capability of inverter generators. Inverter generators use electronics to control the engine speed based on load. What comes off of the generator coils is actually DC, which is then converted to AC (hence the term "inverter"). Typically this feature is not available on generators over 3000 watts.

 

[LG63]

One thing I was wondering about is auto-idle. This one doesn't have it but it would seem to be a nice option. Is this a feature common to smaller generators, and mine just doesn't have it, or is it mainly for the larger dedicated units?

Not sure how common it is but my older 4400 watt unit has a small solenoid on the engine governor that "pulls" the governor arm back to idle if there is no load and it is a very nice feature.

 

[greatlaker]

Don't know how big your property is but Northern Tool has a few tractor pto generators available. Tractor gets lots of use for all sorts of jobs so it is usually fresh fuel. Portable since you can rig it on the tractor (fab job for the welder) and one less engine to maintain.

Down in Florida lots of us have generators but most don't exercise them often enough so when the need arises, they don't run. Lot to do with the **** gasoline nowadays.

A load analysis is essential for determining the size you want/need.
I run my house on 8kw but have to do lots of load management myself.

 

[gml1998]

I own Generacs 3250 watt propane fueled generator. I don't have to deal with old fuel or rotating fuel cans. I would have likd more wattage but all I really need to run is the sump and a few lights.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

No problem.

I think you could comfortably go down at least one notch Generac GP7500E


First, yes it does have a pull start. Some where above 10hp, pull starting is not a good idea. My 5500 watt, 10hp, starts on the second or third pull every time (I do the first pull with the gas on and the ignition off). I would not want an electric start because it is one more battery to maintain.
Last couple of thoughts. Be careful about buying ANY generator over the internet ! This things are heavy and not necessarily packaged well for shipping. If you do have it shipped to your house, open it and inspect it BEFORE the truck driver leaves.

Second, on any mail order purchase, check with the company regarding warranty and find out if there are any shops close by that are authorized repair centers. Some companies will not honor warranty claims on mail order purchases.

i just bought the Generac GP7500E (E is eletric start) thats a good point about the battery being another thing to maintain, especially since the generator doesn't charge the battery when its running. they do give you a small charger with it..............but it also has the pull start so its not like if the battery happens to be dead you can't start it.
I bought it on line but i bought it from homedepot ( it was the same price $999) with free shipping, i figured if i had a problem i could just return it to the store............its really a nice generator, its runs my well, sump, furnace, couple of frig's and all the lights i need. the only con is it burns 8 gals of gas in 12 hours.