Generator questions….

[American Locomotive]

Some mentioned to get the biggest generator you can - I actually propose the opposite: Evaluate your "must have" loads, and get the smallest generator that will satisfy your demands. It sounds counter-intuitive, but a smaller generator working harder will actually be more efficient than a giant generator at very low load.

FWIW: Portable air conditioners are a huge waste of time, and can actually make a house hotter if they're a single hose unit. Ditch it for a standard window unit (if possible).

 

[mike93lx]

Some mentioned to get the biggest generator you can - I actually propose the opposite: Evaluate your "must have" loads, and get the smallest generator that will satisfy your demands. It sounds counter-intuitive, but a smaller generator working harder will actually be more efficient than a giant generator at very low load.

FWIW: Portable air conditioners are a huge waste of time, and can actually make a house hotter if they're a single hose unit. Ditch it for a standard window unit (if possible).

Yes, when you have the luxury of time and availability, as I listed as a caveat.

In an emergency, you get what you can get

 

[velocipede]

Daughter lives in Oklahoma. Not even thinking about climate change. It already gets plenty hot in Oklahoma. If it's above 100 outside, that house gets hot without A/C. Too hot for old folks and babies without some form of cooling.

 

[mike93lx]

Daughter lives in Oklahoma. Not even thinking about climate change. It already gets plenty hot in Oklahoma. If it's above 100 outside, that house gets hot without A/C. Too hot for old folks and babies without some form of cooling.

Climate change doesn't just mean warmer weather

 

[velocipede]

Climate change doesn't just mean warmer weather

Agreed. I think the extremes will become greater.

 

[mike93lx]

Agreed. I think the extremes will become greater.

There is no "think". It's happening already

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Some mentioned to get the biggest generator you can - I actually propose the opposite: Evaluate your "must have" loads, and get the smallest generator that will satisfy your demands. It sounds counter-intuitive, but a smaller generator working harder will actually be more efficient than a giant generator at very low load.

FWIW: Portable air conditioners are a huge waste of time, and can actually make a house hotter if they're a single hose unit. Ditch it for a standard window unit (if possible).

bingo

and if someone wants a dual hose unit, theres a really good one on sale on amazon right now

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0028AYQDC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[dcg9381]

FWIW: Portable air conditioners are a huge waste of time, and can actually make a house hotter if they're a single hose unit. Ditch it for a standard window unit (if possible).

I've never owned own. Why are the single hose units no good? I assume the hose is exhaust.

Texas is currently trying to kill us. I'd get nothing done if I didn't have HVAC in the shop.



We appear to be dangerously close to grid capacity:

 

[PelicanPines]

New Jersey is the only safe state to live in now... who would have thunk.

 

[mike93lx]

I've never owned own. Why are the single hose units no good? I assume the hose is exhaust.

Texas is currently trying to kill us. I'd get nothing done if I didn't have HVAC in the shop.



We appear to be dangerously close to grid capacity:

They generate a ton of heat inside the space you are trying to cool. They're terrible

 

[American Locomotive]

I've never owned own. Why are the single hose units no good? I assume the hose is exhaust.

The single hose units blow their hot air outside. They take air from the inside of the space, and then blow it outside. If your home was perfectly air-tight, that means eventually the air conditioner would **** all of the air out of your house and you would suffocate. But that doesn't happen, does it? That means for every liter of air the portable air conditioner blows out the hose, another liter of air has to leak into the house.

If it's a 100*F day, that means you have 100 degree air leaking into your house at the same rate that hose is blowing out. At the very best, portable air conditioners will make the rest of your house warmer at the expense of one room being slightly cooler. At the very worst (on a very hot day), they will actually make every room hotter.

Two hose units are better since they take air from outside directly, but often are not sealed well.

 

[dougf]

I think the 1800 inverter was a good choice. It'll sip fuel and will be easier for them to manage. You already touched on it, but physical security of the generator should be a top priority for them. It shouldnt be left unsecure and running at night, it will be heard and stolen quickly. Make sure they understand to keep an eye on it, and keeping it chained down to the rails on the back deck (or underneath) while periodically checking on it will most likely prevent it from walking away.

 

[dave*99]

The single hose units blow their hot air outside. They take air from the inside of the space, and then blow it outside. If your home was perfectly air-tight, that means eventually the air conditioner would **** all of the air out of your house and you would suffocate. But that doesn't happen, does it? That means for every liter of air the portable air conditioner blows out the hose, another liter of air has to leak into the house.

If it's a 100*F day, that means you have 100 degree air leaking into your house at the same rate that hose is blowing out. At the very best, portable air conditioners will make the rest of your house warmer at the expense of one room being slightly cooler. At the very worst (on a very hot day), they will actually make every room hotter.

Two hose units are better since they take air from outside directly, but often are not sealed well.

Well said.

I had one single hose unit in a 10x20 office that was a room inside a warehouse. I didn't care that it made the warehouse hotter. It was sucking the hot humid air into the office from the warehouse to make up for its exhaust air. All that air came through the drop ceiling in the office. The result was that there was minimal cooling in the office. Terrible.

 

[TractorJeff]

Well I bought a ryobi from HD. Similar spec’s as the Honda but about $400 cheaper. I’m sure the Honda will last longer, run smoother… but I was in a hurry and didn’t see any Honda’s on the shelf. I grabbed that and a 12ga extension cord. Four hr drive to the kids house.
When I got there they said they wanted to run their old portable AC unit. They have a newborn. Their portable AC unit was about max wattage the generator put out. And it was about 12 years old. I didn’t think the generator would power it and I wasn’t disappointed. So I head off to another big box store and get a smaller portable AC unit. It’s wattage was about 1/2 of what the generator’s output. Great. They could run some smaller items too.
Got everything hooked up, explained to SIL that they would have to switch everything around and couldn’t run everything all at once. All understood and then went out to a mid afternoon lunch. Left everything running.
I left for home from the restaurant. After 3 hours driving I get a text from my daughter….Ah dad, the power is back on! So about $1500 out the window, 9 hrs on the road with pee & gas breaks. But I got to hold the baby for a while. And spend time with the other 3 kids. It’s what dads do I guess!!

My brother drove from Indianapolis to Floriday in a similar scenario. When the cops cleared him to enter the Hurricane devastated area. His daughter texted that the power had come back on. He stayed a few days cutting down trees for the neighborhood!

 

[Daveyclimber]

Don't forget to chain it up to something. It may walk away.

 

[Noltz]

I'm following what ya'all are saying about the single hose units but it's far closer to an old 80% eff. natural draft furnace. Yes you're using SOME of the cold air you just made to blow the heated air out the window. But 80% is staying inside so you're pulling 20% of the total volume in from outside the room (Which is of course unconditioned air). So it's inefficient but they don't heat a room.
My son's room was above the garage it it was easily the hottest room in the house. We put a single-hose unit in there and it easily controlled the temperature. I knew it wasn't going to be as efficient as a window unit and there were no dual-hose units at Costco that day.

 

[American Locomotive]

I'm following what ya'all are saying about the single hose units but it's far closer to an old 80% eff. natural draft furnace. Yes you're using SOME of the cold air you just made to blow the heated air out the window. But 80% is staying inside so you're pulling 20% of the total volume in from outside the room (Which is of course unconditioned air). So it's inefficient but they don't heat a room.
My son's room was above the garage it it was easily the hottest room in the house. We put a single-hose unit in there and it easily controlled the temperature. I knew it wasn't going to be as efficient as a window unit and there were no dual-hose units at Costco that day.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

Air conditioners are heat pump. Whatever "cold" they blow into the room, they must exhaust an equal amount of "hot". So if the air conditioner is blowing 400cfm of cold air into the room, the exhaust side is blowing 400 cfm out the window. That 400cfm of air has to come from somewhere. If it's a 95°F/35°C day, that means you are pulling 400 CFM worth of 95°F/35°C air into your home. The hotter is outside, the worse it is.

The single hose units are so bad, that the U.S. Government had to develop a new rating system in 2017 called "SACC" or now more commonly called the "DOE Rating". Existing single-hose units had their cooling performance rating chopped in half. A "12,000 BTU" single hose portable would typically have a "DOE Rating" of around 6,000-7,000 BTU. That means it was pumping so much air outside, and pulling in so much hot outside air in return, that it was effectively canceling half of its cooling performance.

Because of the new rating system, there are now many more two hose (and concentric hose units) on the markets. Single hose units are still abysmal, but they have made some improvements to reduce the amount of air they blow outside. Two hose units are much better, and window units better yet.

BTW: The DOE/SACC rating assumings its 95°F/35°C 20% of the time, and 83°F/28°C 80% of the time. If you live in an area where it's consistently in the high 90°F range (or regularly breaching into the 100s), single hose portable units will almost certainly make your house hotter.

Your single hose unit is likely providing some cooling at the expense of making other parts of the house warmer, and your ambient likely isn't that high, lessening the impact.

 

[dave*99]

I'm following what ya'all are saying about the single hose units but it's far closer to an old 80% eff. natural draft furnace. Yes you're using SOME of the cold air you just made to blow the heated air out the window. But 80% is staying inside so you're pulling 20% of the total volume in from outside the room (Which is of course unconditioned air). So it's inefficient but they don't heat a room.
My son's room was above the garage it it was easily the hottest room in the house. We put a single-hose unit in there and it easily controlled the temperature. I knew it wasn't going to be as efficient as a window unit and there were no dual-hose units at Costco that day.

This is not an accurate comparison.

@American Locomotive explained it well.

Compare the amount of air volume blowing out of that single hose to the volume of air coming out of the natural draft vent. The difference is huge.

 

[Noltz]

Sorry, you are incorrect.

Air conditioners are heat pump. Whatever "cold" they blow into the room, they must exhaust an equal amount of "hot". So if the air conditioner is blowing 400cfm of cold air into the room, the exhaust side is blowing 400 cfm out the window. That 400cfm of air has to come from somewhere. If it's a 95°F/35°C day, that means you are pulling 400 CFM worth of 95°F/35°C air into your home. The hotter is outside, the worse it is.

The single hose units are so bad, that the U.S. Government had to develop a new rating system in 2017 called "SACC" or now more commonly called the "DOE Rating". Existing single-hose units had their cooling performance rating chopped in half. A "12,000 BTU" single hose portable would typically have a "DOE Rating" of around 6,000-7,000 BTU. That means it was pumping so much air outside, and pulling in so much hot outside air in return, that it was effectively canceling half of its cooling performance.

Because of the new rating system, there are now many more two hose (and concentric hose units) on the markets. Single hose units are still abysmal, but they have made some improvements to reduce the amount of air they blow outside. Two hose units are much better, and window units better yet.

BTW: The DOE/SACC rating assumings its 95°F/35°C 20% of the time, and 83°F/28°C 80% of the time. If you live in an area where it's consistently in the high 90°F range (or regularly breaching into the 100s), single hose portable units will almost certainly make your house hotter.

Your single hose unit is likely providing some cooling at the expense of making other parts of the house warmer, and your ambient likely isn't that high, lessening the impact.

I am always open to learning & appreciate the detailed and vetted answer! Any clue if the single-hose units can be modified?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The amount of air blowing out has to be equal to the amount of air coming in. This is basic physics.... otherwise, youd have negative air pressure level in the house... think of it like a vacuum...

 

[Noltz]

The amount of air blowing out has to be equal to the amount of air coming in. This is basic physics.... otherwise, youd have negative air pressure level in the house... think of it like a vacuum...

Right, but it was my prior understanding that if the AC machine was pulling say 100CFM, 20% of it was being pushed outside carrying the heat outside. The remaining 80% that was sucked in was pushed back into the room as cooler air. The 20% pushed outside is replaced by unconditioned air being drawn in to the room through cracks, air vents, etc. So you'd be getting 80% of it, but pulling 20% unconditioned back in.
I know through my own ownership & use that they do work. My Sons room went from 24-25°c on hot days with the house AC running (set to 20 or 21°c to 19°c if he wanted it. I do consider that he would be pulling mostly conditioned air from the house to replace what's dumped "overboard". It was a 1980's house with the windows done around 2005 and cotton insulation blown in to about 9".

 

[dave*99]

The SACC value is an important factor.

Here is how SACC works:

 

[Spud McGee]

I'm sure the inverter fanbois will dogpile me for saying it, but I've been running my whole house off a basic gas westinghouse generator for the past 8 years. AC, heat pump, blower for the gas furnace, over, microwave, ceiling fans, smart TVs, dumb TVs, incandescent lights, LED lights, laptops, desktop computers, 3D printers, raspberry pis, security system, camera system, network gear, NAS. All of it runs perfectly fine.

Whatever this imaginary "dirty power" boogyman is, he doesn't seem to be too interested in any of the electronics in my house.

 

[dcg9381]

I'm sure the inverter fanbois will dogpile me for saying it, but I've been running my whole house off a basic gas westinghouse generator for the past 8 years. AC, heat pump, blower for the gas furnace, over, microwave, ceiling fans, smart TVs, dumb TVs, incandescent lights, LED lights, laptops, desktop computers, 3D printers, raspberry pis, security system, camera system, network gear, NAS. All of it runs perfectly fine.

Whatever this imaginary "dirty power" boogyman is, he doesn't seem to be too interested in any of the electronics in my house.

That's awesome feedback and a good data point.
My house runs fine on a 20K generac when power goes down. I've got cisco network gear, other things.. None of it seems to care. Standard non-inverter generator.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Ive considered mil auction, but haven't seen great deals in our area. I'm sure us taxpayers paid a pretty penny for that. Let us know how it works.

Might not be ideal for camping though, but perhaps it could power the whole park!

It's only a 5KW MEP-802A but perfect for my house.I have worked to reduce electrical requirements in all aspects.You have to be very careful not to oversize these type units as they really don't like light loads.This is an early winter project and willing be taking it off the trailer and selling that on.There are 8 up for auction in Texas right now on Govplanet. I paid less than 10% of original price less fees if this tag is correct...great deal IMHO.

 

[Worsedog]

Are you talking about brushless with no regulator as being bad? I have a pretty expensive brushless generator with an AVR where the generator head is from a very reputable manufacturer.

He brings this up every time someone mentions generator.

We have a 15KW diesel genset in one of our mobile command posts that is brushless. It powers network gear, satellite and LTE internet connections, surveillance electronics, etc.