Generator recommendations?

[Innovate1]

I currently have a no-name 25 year old 5kw generator that has been used to power a few essential loads (gas furnace, refrigerator, a few lights) during power outages. It's loud and difficult to work with. Looking to get something better. Have been reading some and inverter units seem like the way to go. For one thing they don't run full speed all the time so conserve fuel.

Have seen some good reviews of the Predator line from HF although my budget could cover a Honda or similar higher end unit.

I have a 30A interlocked inlet so a generator with 240 output is needed. I suppose I could put all the loads on one leg of the panel but don't really want to do that.

Also looking at getting a quiet generator for RV use and wondering if I could get one that would cover both. Don't need as big for the RV so combining them may not be practical. The smaller ones typically don't have 240V outputs. Some can be paralleled but from all I read that would only provide more current at 120V.

Some are dual or tri fuel. We have natural gas so that would be slick but I see the output drops significantly from output using gasoline. I could oversize the unit to compensate of course. We already have an outside quick connect for a grill so a hose would be all that is needed to complete the connection.

 

[bluedog225]

Champion dual fuel. Never put gasoline in it.

Or Honda.

 

[mike93lx]

If you can swing the cost, I seriously doubt any/many will tell you not to go Honda. Cost is the only real objection to them

 

[AA/FC]

I have the dual-fuel version of this generator and I love it. They just came out with this new tri-fuel version a few months ago. If I had to do it all over again, this is the unit I would buy..... Of course this generator isn't really RV friendly because it's to big and heavy for that application. But, in my opinion, this is the way to go for home backup.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXLR4XC1/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[theoldwizard1]

I currently have a no-name 25 year old 5kw generator that has been used to power a few essential loads (gas furnace, refrigerator, a few lights) during power outages.

That is WAY OVERKILL for just those loads ! I was running 4 houses (mostly refrigerators and freezers) with my 5kw generators a couple of months ago.

Finding a "quiet" (typically an inverter) duel/tri-fuel generator rated at 5kw AND 240VAC will be difficult/expensive ! If that is all the appliances you are running, you can get by on a 2kw unit ! 3KW if you want some cushion (yes, a generator males less power on LP/NG) .

Also looking at getting a quiet generator for RV use and wondering if I could get one that would cover both. Don't need as big for the RV so combining them may not be practical. The smaller ones typically don't have 240V outputs. Some can be paralleled but from all I read that would only provide more current at 120V.

If you willing to go to a smaller generator (3kw) or two 2kw in parallel, there is a trick that you can use and still keep your 30A interlock and house input. In the cable from the generator(s), connect L1 to L2. No 240VAC appliance will work, but you will still get 120VAC to everything !

Some are dual or tri fuel. We have natural gas so that would be slick but I see the output drops significantly from output using gasoline. I could oversize the unit to compensate of course. We already have an outside quick connect for a grill so a hose would be all that is needed to complete the connection.

Also, there are "kits" available for most gasoline only generators to convert to LP/NG.

 

[ddurrett896]

Champion

 

[dcg9381]

Have seen some good reviews of the Predator line from HF although my budget could cover a Honda or similar higher end unit.

I have a 30A interlocked inlet so a generator with 240 output is needed. I suppose I could put all the loads on one leg of the panel but don't really want to do that.

Predator actually gets pretty good reviews in the RV space from what I've seen. Just like their small engines. If it were me, I'd probably buy the HF "warranty" on the thing as things with HF tend to go really well or really badly.

Honda is absolutely top of the line. And has the associated price tag.

I'm buying Champion. I think I've owned 6 total and other than having to rebuild/replace one carb (my fault, not Champions) they have been flawless. The 3 I have now are all dual fuel (I try to keep gas out of them) and can be linked, but they all also 120V.

With Champion, you need to be at about 6500 watts or above to get 240V, which I'd recommend for your application.
It appears they came out with a 8500 watt unit that is an inverter unit and will do 240V.

 

[Innovate1]

I have read a few recent negative comments about Honda. Apparently they are now built in Thailand. I would guess quality is still much better than Chinese brands.

I will probably end up with different ones for home and RV. For the RV dual fuel for LP would be good. Would be great to not have to worry about stale gas.

If I can get a tri fuel unit for home and not have to convert that would be a plus. Costco has a Firman 7500W (5500 on NG) continuous unit that is 240V for $1000. I would also need to get a long hose for the hookup - the grill is around the corner from where the generator will be. About 40 - 50 ft. Looks like those are readily available.

On the 5kW size of my current unit I suspect that is a peak rating so a generous derating for reliability is a good idea.

On using parallel generators and hooking L1 and L2 together - seems like a good way to burn out the neutral wire. In that setup it would carry the sum of the two hot lines. If there was some way to connect two 120V generators for 240V that would be slick and I could just take one for the RV.

 

[dcg9381]

I will probably end up with different ones for home and RV. For the RV dual fuel for LP would be good. Would be great to not have to worry about stale gas.

Yea lots of great units for RVs. I can fire up a 15k HVAC unit on Champion 2500 if I drop all other loads (AC has a hard start kit) - for most RV operations, I like those generators to be in the 3500-4500 watt range unless you need to power 2 ACs.

If I can get a tri fuel unit for home and not have to convert that would be a plus. Costco has a Firman 7500W (5500 on NG) continuous unit that is 240V for $1000. I would also need to get a long hose for the hookup - the grill is around the corner from where the generator will be. About 40 - 50 ft. Looks like those are readily available.

That Firman is what I have as a backup generator for the shop. At $1k you must be looking at the newer "inverter" unit. Here's the catch on that one: It needs a battery to start on propane/LPG. If the battery is dead, won't start on propane/LPG. I believe you can pull start it on gasoline.

 

[ripperd]

240 + inverter is a little bit of a sticking point if you want an easily portable one. They are expensive and HEAVY. More geared towards home use.

The 120v 30a plug inverter generators are widespread in the 3k-4k range, and all around 100lbs, and are fairly inexpensive. They are portable and generally will power a house or RV really well with the exception of home 240v loads.

I'd evaluate if you really really need 240v (ie, home AC or well pump) emergency power. If not, the 120v ones with the L1+L2 combined adapter cord is a good solution. Thats what I have and do. I have the wen 3800w unit. This one. Works awesome, runs the RV air conditioning well, sips gas, and is quiet.

 

[nadogail]

I have heard of many that claim to be “as good as a Honda” I have yet to hear any claims of being better than a Honda.

Generator selection usually turns out to be a compromise between perceived need and quality and then what you can afford.

 

[Innovate1]

Maybe I should pick up one for RV use and see how well it will work on the home. The furnace has an ECM motor so there isn't a huge inrush so that isn't an issue for a smaller generator. Main issues I see are if I just run one line then I need to put all the essential loads on the same line. The L1+L2 combiner sounds like a good plan as long as the total current is under 30A so the neutral is protected. That works out to 3600 Watts. Probably plenty for what I need to run. The smaller units tend to not have NG capability and that would be a really nice feature for home use.

 

[Denwood]

If your furnace has an ECM motor, you may find (as I did) that the furnace controller may not like generator power, even one that has been tuned for voltage and frequency. Mine only works when powered by an an inverter/generator. It's a Lennox SLP98UHV series, variable capacity, variable speed blower unit with their "iComfort" communicating (as in digital) thermostat. It's a pretty commonly reported issue with newer furnaces and generator power. My guess is that the issue is with the electronics in the digital wall display/control unit.

 

[fitter30]

7500 watt generator on nat gas 50' run 1" i.d. hose. Gas pipe is by i.d.

Natural Gas Pipe Size Chart and Installation Information.

Pipe Size Chart and Installation Information for Installing a Natural Gas Generator using a Do-it-yourself Natural Gas Conversion Kit.

www.uscarburetion.com

 

[Rc_Guy]

We have had the Honda eu6500is since 2012 and have a little over 4600 hours on it. I would recommend Honda.

 

[housewolf]

We have had the Honda eu6500is since 2012 and have a little over 4600 hours on it. I would recommend Honda.

Wow! That’s a lot of hours! I have same, bought about same time for a race trailer. My only complaint is it’s heavy and the carburetor is very sensitive to getting clogged up. When I need to load it, I use an engine hoist. I have a reminder set on my phone to run it every three weeks. No problems since I started that drill. I’m sure I could pull and clean the carb blindfolded in less than five minutes by now. I store it with ethanol free/treated fuel. If I need to run it, I’ll burn whatever I can get.

I’ll have to check but I guess mine has ~500 hrs on it. It ran two weeks straight powering an RV in my backyard when I had a tornado in 2020.

Something like this would fit OPs needs well. Whisper quiet and good on fuel for the amount of power available.

ETA: my generator has 411 hrs

 

[theoldwizard1]

On using parallel generators and hooking L1 and L2 together - seems like a good way to burn out the neutral wire. In that setup it would carry the sum of the two hot lines.

WRONG !

Within the house the neutral in each is sized to match the hot and the breaker that feed them.

If you parallel to 2,000W (peak, about 1,700W continuous, or about 14.2A @ 120VAC) inverter generators, the only part of the system to see the combined 28.4A is the cable from the generator(s) to the interlock breaker. Size that appropriately.

If there was some way to connect two 120V generators for 240V that would be slick and I could just take one for the RV.

You can use a 240/120 transformer wired backward (120V in, 240V out). A 4kw transformer like this is expensive !

 

[Innovate1]

WRONG !

Within the house the neutral in each is sized to match the hot and the breaker that feed them.

If you parallel to 2,000W (peak, about 1,700W continuous, or about 14.2A @ 120VAC) inverter generators, the only part of the system to see the combined 28.4A is the cable from the generator(s) to the interlock breaker. Size that appropriately.

You can use a 240/120 transformer wired backward (120V in, 240V out). A 4kw transformer like this is expensive !

I'm not wrong. I was talking about the cable from the inlet to the backfed breaker. It's a fairly long run and would be difficult to upgrade. Doing that would also allow overload of the neutral on any multiwire branch circuit. And I know about transformers. But it's not a very practical solution. It wouldn't be a 120/240 transformer unless you just want to waste your money. It would be 120/120 so it only needs to handle half the total power. L1 comes directly from the generator. L2 is reversed in phase by the transformer. Both connect to neutral. But still big and expensive.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Wow! That’s a lot of hours! I have same, bought about same time for a race trailer. My only complaint is it’s heavy and the carburetor is very sensitive to getting clogged up. When I need to load it, I use an engine hoist. I have a reminder set on my phone to run it every three weeks. No problems since I started that drill. I’m sure I could pull and clean the carb blindfolded in less than five minutes by now. I store it with ethanol free/treated fuel. If I need to run it, I’ll burn whatever I can get.

I’ll have to check but I guess mine has ~500 hrs on it. It ran two weeks straight powering an RV in my backyard when I had a tornado in 2020.

Something like this would fit OPs needs well. Whisper quiet and good on fuel for the amount of power available.

ETA: my generator has 411 hrs

I use the same unleaded in mine that we use in the Jeep. Ours sits on the tongue of our food vending trailer.

 

[Innovate1]

7500 watt generator on nat gas 50' run 1" i.d. hose. Gas pipe is by i.d.

Natural Gas Pipe Size Chart and Installation Information.

Pipe Size Chart and Installation Information for Installing a Natural Gas Generator using a Do-it-yourself Natural Gas Conversion Kit.

www.uscarburetion.com

Thanks! I will have to factor that in. I ran gas line to my detached garage 200' for a 60kbtu furnace and only needed 1" for that so surprised at the sizes in the table.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

"INVEST" is a Honda…… You will thank me later!

 

[ihateminimumwage]

If your furnace has an ECM motor, you may find (as I did) that the furnace controller may not like generator power, even one that has been tuned for voltage and frequency. Mine only works when powered by an an inverter/generator. It's a Lennox SLP98UHV series, variable capacity, variable speed blower unit with their "iComfort" communicating (as in digital) thermostat. It's a pretty commonly reported issue with newer furnaces and generator power. My guess is that the issue is with the electronics in the digital wall display/control unit.

Usually just need to run a neutral to ground jumper plug at the generator for them to work. They want to see the bond that would be at the panel and the generator power doesn't give them that, so they won't operate.

For the OP, if we're only talking portables; Honda/Winco for a gas unit, MQ/Kubota for a diesel.

 

[Denwood]

Usually just need to run a neutral to ground jumper plug at the generator for them to work. They want to see the bond that would be at the panel and the generator power doesn't give them that, so they won't operate.

For the OP, if we're only talking portables; Honda/Winco for a gas unit, MQ/Kubota for a diesel.

I have a neutral bonded plug so pretty sure that was not the issue. The ECM furnace generates an error on generator power (as in a portable generator) but is fine on inverter/generator with the exact same cables/connection. I had the same issue with computer UPS's...they are useless on generator as they constantly cycle and die anyway. Again, no issues on the inverter.

Our EVSE (EV charger cable) does require the neutral bonding plug to run off the inverter for charging.

 

[sea2summit]

I have read a few recent negative comments about Honda. Apparently they are now built in Thailand. I would guess quality is still much better than Chinese brands.

I will probably end up with different ones for home and RV. For the RV dual fuel for LP would be good. Would be great to not have to worry about stale gas.

If I can get a tri fuel unit for home and not have to convert that would be a plus. Costco has a Firman 7500W (5500 on NG) continuous unit that is 240V for $1000. I would also need to get a long hose for the hookup - the grill is around the corner from where the generator will be. About 40 - 50 ft. Looks like those are readily available.

On the 5kW size of my current unit I suspect that is a peak rating so a generous derating for reliability is a good idea.

On using parallel generators and hooking L1 and L2 together - seems like a good way to burn out the neutral wire. In that setup it would carry the sum of the two hot lines. If there was some way to connect two 120V generators for 240V that would be slick and I could just take one for the RV.

Be sure you understand the different Honda engines, the GX is what you want to be looking for in a Honda.

Honda, Champion or Generac are pretty good. My main generator is actually a miller welder with a Kohler engine. Predator engines have come leaps and bounds in terms of quality but replacement parts can be hard/impossible which so I'd just keep a spare power head on hand if I went that route...nothing worse when you really need a generator than the generator not working.

 

[theoldwizard1]

L1 comes directly from the generator. L2 is reversed in phase by the transformer.

It has been almost 50 years since I had any EE classes, but I never heard that a voltage matching transformer would shift the phase of the output by 180° !

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm not wrong. I was talking about the cable from the inlet to the backfeed interlock breaker. It's a fairly long run and would be difficult to upgrade. Doing that would also allow overload of the neutral on any multiwire branch circuit.

You say the interlock inlet is 30A. So the wire from the generator inlet to the interlock breaker should be 10AWG. 30A @ 120V is still 3,600W (continuous), more than enough to run the loads you listed and a lot more !

Very few houses have MWB circuits, but you have a point,

Watch this video (the guy is a licensed electrician) Can You Power a 240 Volt Panel With Two 120 Volt Generators?

 

[Innovate1]

It has been almost 50 years since I had any EE classes, but I never heard that a voltage matching transformer would shift the phase of the output by 180° !

It's pretty simple - you just switch the two output wires (or input wires but not both input and output).

This page goes into a lot of detail discussing using transformers and paralleling generators. See post 13 for the basic transformer connection to get 240V from 120V with a 120:120 transformer (the voltages aren't that but they note to ignore the voltage. The basic connection is what they are showing.
https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/120v-to-120-240v-transformer-or-other-ideas.151066/

 

[duneslider]

I just bought a WEN 3800watt. This doesn't have the 220v you are wanting but I have been happy with it so far. I am using this for RV use only, not trying to power my house. I was very skeptical to buy an "off" brand. I also have a Honda 2200. I needed a bigger one for 3 times a year that we need to run AC in the RV at races. All other camping trips we do not need AC.

Anyway, the WEN was packaged well. The instruction manual was in real english, I read most of it and didn't find anythings that was a typical "horrible" translation. The generator did not have a "Made in China" sticker, I can't remember what it was off the top of my head (Taiwan maybe). They offer High Altitude kits for the carb, I bought directly from WEN and they shipped fast from a USA location.

It has electric start that worked well right out of the box. It has a fuel shut off and an attached hose to "easily" drain the fuel and oil.

I did a break in run with 30wt and zinc oil additive with a magnetic dipstick and while it picked up some small stuff I was pretty surprised how little metal particulate was in it, better than other yard equipment I have had.

It starts good, runs good, is quiet, easy to work on, etc. I have only used it a few times but I am very happy with it and honestly like it better than the Champion my brother has. Time will tell if it lasts as long as my Honda but it is double the output and half the cost of my Honda.

I will only use it one more time this year and at that point I will drain the fuel and probably change the oil and store it until spring.

 

[Mr.zippy]

I very much like Honda products, and I have always had good luck with them. That being said, I have a couple of Yamaha 2000 watt inverters and they have been awesome. You may want to check out the Yamaha generators too!