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Generator Reliability - Engine vs the Electrical

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FMC1959

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sorry, there is a lot going on in this thread and i am by no means an engineer, just a service technician :lol:. i can diagnose and fix a generator and an ATS but most things beyond that is up to the electricians or project managers.

diesels pretty much need a load on them, meaning that when you do run it to exercise it you'll want it to do an actual "pull-the-plug" test, as in have the ATS transfer from normal (utility) to emergency (generator). modern diesels in generators want between 50-80% of engine load capacity on them to avoid wetstacking exhaust, and this is especially true in the smaller diesels that kind of "avoid" tier-4 emissions standards, as in no DEF system or needing regen cycles. because of this their wetstacking or at least, well, stinky exhaust is more noticeable.

but for fuel issues it is pretty difficult to avoid. things just tend to wear, i guess. all i can say is for any of the rubber o-rings on fuel lines i use 24c grease to lube them (cheap and its on hand on my service truck) and have never had an issue with the same engine again. it will take years for the o-rings to begin to fail, i think it's more of a time issue than an hour-meter one. rather than fuel leaking out anywhere i typically find the unit has just lost its prime and will crank but not run, and can take multiple crank cycles to actually reprime itself to run, trying to compensate for pulling in air through wherever the bad seal is. sometimes it'll just kill the battery and other times it'll go down on an overcrank or locked rotor fault and i'll get a call. when customers do that i think that definitely makes a negative impact, you don't want these pumps running dry and pulling a whole head of fuel, you would want to reprime the system yourself manually. sometimes it'll crank and turn but then shut down within 2 seconds as it already lost fuel pressure. typically, it'll display the low oil pressure fault when this happens :lol:

otherwise you're going to want to keep some spare fuel filters on hand, and never fill the filter yourself as a shortcut when changing. Put it on dry (except oil the mating seal obviously) and pull fuel through it to prime. these modern diesels do NOT like dirt getting in and it is not worth the risk of introducing any particulate. after priming to the fuel filter and sealing either the bleed screw or the fuel line back in place that you used to prime, there is usually either an electric pump or a little push pump to continue to force fuel up to the injector pump from there, and whatever little air is left isn't enough to hurt the pumps.

beyond that, fuel stabilization for anti-gelling in the cold and general anti-algae treatment and still expect to drain the tank and have it be refilled every couple of years to keep it fresh.

nothing about a fuel system in a diesel (up to the injector pump) is complicated and easy enough to figure out, especially with help from the internet. i'd consider all of that pretty much DIY for anyone interested in saving the money from calling a technician out.

otherwise you encounter the regular issues with any engine - oil pressure sender failure, EGR valve stuck, thermostat stuck, coolant or water pump leak, belts, you know, the normal "consumables". it is rare for a regularly loaded diesel to have any bigger issue until it gets pretty high in the hour meter count.


also, you wouldn't really have to worry about any of this with an LP unit. maybe a stuck regulator diaphragm is the worst issue you'll find, an easy fix.

Cool, lots of great info...thanks
 
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FMC1959

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A 30 second internet search pulled this, a company that rents or sells LP tanks:

https://bryansfuel.on.ca/propane-tanks-for-sale/

In Canada, no less...

Local code for burial of a tank should be relatively easy to find on the website for your city/village. I'd be surprised if the top of the tank actually had to be buried more than 18" down... just call local code enforcement or a local fuel supplier for the details. Much easier than trying to get answers here.

If you have a high water table, or are in an area prone to flooding, your tank will need to be anchored to concrete footings so it doesn't float and pop out of the ground. Again, covered by local codes/practices.

The 2 places I contacted were in Quebec, they did not sell tanks. Definitely good to see that tanks are sold....the price, eh, well have to see. Might need to see if there is a used market and also if like a previous poster had mentioned, big tanks do not have expiry dates (he was in one of the New England states IIRC) like the smaller ones...probably built to higher standards.

I'll see how that works here, thanks for the link.
 

Busted_Knuckles

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Wow, this thread got busy since my last post...

First and foremost, Im not an expert, but kinda of familiar with this stuff, Ive only been playing with them for about 10yrs, I am life long meat and potato mechanic, who has worked as an industrial, commercial, and residential electrician, but a pretty poor one at that !

All things considered, looks like your in the diesel camp. If you incur allot of hours, in the context of " stand by ", as I said, all things considered, I think you will be fine. As mentioned you need to understand wet stacking as it applies to the use of gennies.

Couple things come to mind, research if you should buy bio or non blended diesel. Around here, there is no savings having off road diesel delivered, after you factor in the delivery charge, usually about the same as full tax at the pump, likely your " world " might be completely different ? Dont, just wanted to share.

As you describe it, Id likely go diesel in " your shoes ", and at that point the two models you shared, I know nothing about, other than intuitively, they sound " safe ". Id just shake down the WWW. on each model, to learn what you can.

Rule of thumb would suggest that standbys might be better built than portables, unless you find yourself in very high end portables.

If I was literally in your shoes, and needed standby and diesel, Id be buying a surplus military unit, that does everything, as well they are built as " prime " units, and are in your price range, in " like new " condition. Not sure if you have access to that kind of stuff up there.

Think " Fermont " made units. Like an MEP 804B tactical quiet generator 15KW 240/416 volt 3Ph 50/60Hrz. These can be had for $5k-$7k. I think they are adjustable for single and 3 phase. Just a thought Im putting out there.

LP is " cheap " here, I keep a thousand gallon tank , I have 2000 model year generac commercial liquid cooled 16k. It will run everything at the same time, I need to in my house. I have this machine, because it was almost free to me, and its pre-computer controlled, as well is an 1800rpm machine powered by a 1.5L Mitsubishi 4 cyl. Its pretty much a problem free design, Id not own a newer model.

At some point, I plan to purchase a used military Fermont, for the shop, so I can have 3phase power, and another toy to play with.

As far as the China Junk, I have a brand new 3850w ? Champion, even though I sell Generac, LOL. I needed a small unit that runs on propane for my FIL. He lives on a oxygen generator. I bought that, so if we have a long term outage, I can keep a small unit running around the clock, and not have the 16k running just to supply 10amps to an oxygen generator. I could have gone smaller, but I 6 refrigerators and freezers in the house, and figure I can keep those going at the same time, as well as some lights if going through the exercise of making power. I think of this as a way to conserve ALLOT of fuel and if the Champion dies, whatever... go get another, kind of provides a back of sorts too.

Looking at the machines youve mentioned, Id expect you would have control problems before engine problems, to answer you original questions, but really it might be a split.

In a nut shell, here is what I have noticed, MOST* portables use " off the shelf " gas engines, and Im guessing at some point, if they rack up lots of hours, the engines fail because they where just not designed for that many hours and a heavy load. When they build standbys, they have completely different engines that are more designed for the extended hours and constant load. I think that is where Steve shared that his shop filled up with gennies after a storm.

It occurs to me there are allot of people down south that keep portables for storms, and run the snot out of them. Just about no standby does not get taken into the shop for repair, even an engine or head, the mechanic goes to the genny, which is why I think he references portables. Allot of places down south, you can NOT removed a genny to work on it, with out pulling a permit to put it back...

Figure out the fuel ( sounds like you did ), pick a size range, buy an 1800rpm unit, and research the model via google before purchase, you should be fine.

Might research storing diesel, if that is not already in you wheel house ?

If I can be of any help, you can message me for my phone number if you want to dig deeper in a conversation. Ive got more time to talk than I do type !
 
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Busted_Knuckles

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One after I thought, I should have mentioned...

The dealer required parts " kit ", basically a box of spare parts, that is a required purchase as a servicing dealer, when I think about what Generac has decided their fastest moving parts are, its almost exclusively controls related parts. I think there is a starter in there, maybe a starter relay, and spark plugs, but that's it, and Im speaking to the air cooled units, the lower $ standby machines, so even the manufacture agrees, at least in this " strata " of machines.

To address Ben's comment on the fact that in training they barely even mention power plants, I think this is for several reasons, but one is that fact that not much really ever happens with these. There are several other reasons, but that might be the main reason.

Im sure there are machines that have a catastrophic failure like tossing a rod, but I never see any of it, but once again, where Im at, these machines hardly get used. They time out long before they ever wear out. Speaking again specifically to standbys.
 
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FMC1959

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One after I thought, I should have mentioned...

The dealer required parts " kit ", basically a box of spare parts, that is a required purchase as a servicing dealer, when I think about what Generac has decided their fastest moving parts are, its almost exclusively controls related parts....

Wow, this thread got busy since my last post...

First and foremost, Im not an expert, but kinda of familiar with this stuff, Ive only been playing with them for about 10yrs, I am life long meat and potato mechanic,...

Thank you very much, lots of helpful info.

I do not know if I will buy in the next week or two, or in a couple of months, but I have received so much info over the past 2 weeks on the 4 related threads I started, I am not sure which way I will go...my head is overflowing, but this is good!

Thanks again.
 
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