Geothermal install completion tomorrow

[My Old Tools]

I should have my Waterfurnace geo install completed tomorrow. It took about 3 months to get the unit, a 5 ton series 7, 43.5 EER and 5.1 COP. I'm replacing two older heat pumps with propane backup, a 3 ton and a 2 ton. My 3 ton died in August and the other one is older. We are going to 3 zones with the single unit. We dropped the Geo Slim lake plate in the lake a few weeks ago, I did the underwater work and it was damn cold. Plate is 4x12 feet rated for 8 tons and its sitting in 15 feet of water in a 50 acre spring fed lake. It has another 400 feet of plastic pipe to feed it as well. Series 7 is full variable speed with a variable speed pump as well. Electric rates went up over 30% this year even on our Co-op. Propane is running $3.15 a gallon. I'm hoping to cut my utility usage 50%. Since I had to replace one unit and the other was old, and neither furnace was high efficiency, I think the extra money for the geo can be money well spent. The government rebate of 30% on my taxes helps too. Our lake won't drop below 45 degrees in the winter, so we should never hit the heat strips.

 

[Jackfre]

Install a solar system on the property to eliminate the electric bill. I zeroed my PG&E bill by doing so.

 

[My Old Tools]

We'll look at that next year

 

[kj_mustang]

If I had a lake, I would have seriously considered Geo heat pumps also on my new home build. I had it priced with me doing the trench digging for ground loops and I passed on it.

 

[My Old Tools]

Delayed a few days, shipped the wrong plenum.

 

[jmdirk]

NIce.

I've had a Waterfurnace 5 series for almost 10 years on an open loop system. Seems to work well. But it hasn't been without its problems. The variable speed ECM motor went out on it a few years back. Worst possible failure mode for these units. No blower motor and you have no heat. Any other component could have failed and I'd at least been able to run Aux heat.

Also had the water desuperheater start leaking.

Both replaced under warranty.

 

[My Old Tools]

How has your utility usage been?

 

[fitter30]

U will be shocked at your bill. Geo is the most efficient system made. What 30 - 35 seer have dhw also?

 

[My Old Tools]

U will be shocked at your bill. Geo is the most efficient system made. What 30 - 35 seer have dhw also?

No hot water on this one as I already have two tankless.

 

[My Old Tools]

Finally got this completed. No more propane to buy for heat, just a cooktop and two tankless water heaters. Still learning the operation, but so far I'm loving it.

 

[Firebrick43]

And how much for the equipment/install?

Cant believe in texas propane is so much, its 2.29 a gallon delivered here and its shipped from texas?

 

[My Old Tools]

$3.15 or $2.95 if you get 150 gal or more plus $9 delivery fee. My install included 5 ton series 7 Waterfurnace, full variable speed pumps, 4x12' Slim Jim lake plate, 500 feet of tubing, 3 zones that required 160 feet of hard duct and new flex in some areas, plenums, 3 variable zone duct dampers, 3 thermostats, labor, etc. I saved the bulk of the trenching up from the lake by using an existing drain pipe as a chase. $36,900.

 

[My Old Tools]

U will be shocked at your bill. Geo is the most efficient system made. What 30 - 35 seer have dhw also?

43.5 SEER

 

[kj_mustang]

$3.15 or $2.95 if you get 150 gal or more plus $9 delivery fee. My install included 5 ton series 7 Waterfurnace, full variable speed pumps, 4x12' Slim Jim lake plate, 500 feet of tubing, 3 zones that required 160 feet of hard duct and new flex in some areas, plenums, 3 variable zone duct dampers, 3 thermostats, labor, etc. I saved the bulk of the trenching up from the lake by using an existing drain pipe as a chase. $36,900.

My quote from 7-8 years ago from a local HVAC company for a waterfurnace 2 zone system was over $60,000 with me digging the trenches. I installed two heat pumps for less than half that. With my very well insulated house, I figured it would take me many years to use up the price difference in electricity.

 

[86turbodsl]

My quote from 7-8 years ago from a local HVAC company for a waterfurnace 2 zone system was over $60,000 with me digging the trenches. I installed two heat pumps for less than half that. With my very well insulated house, I figured it would take me many years to use up the price difference in electricity.

WOW. That's big money for a gshp install. Mine was WAY less than that. 3 ton/4ton closed loop. The unit itself was about 3500. If i recall right, the loop was 1600/ton.

 

[kj_mustang]

Yeah, I ran away fast from that company. I got so many insanely overpriced quotes on my new home construction that I seriously considered not building. I was sick of it.

 

[86turbodsl]

Yeah right now / recent past was NOT a good time to build.

 

[kj_mustang]

This was 7 years ago. Probably would have cost me an additional $250,000 if I had waited till the last 2 years.

 

[86turbodsl]

Yeah, i built about 12 yrs ago. I can't even imagine what it would cost now. I'm probably done building for good.

 

[My Old Tools]

I'm a week plus in now. So far so good. Still learning the system and adjusting the programming a bit. Will probably add another ceiling duct outlet next week to fill a cold spot we've always had. So far a big day has been $4 of electricity. Several days less than $1. This is for a 3800 sf house, 24 years old, with a ton of big windows facing north at the lake. The windows are at least 20 years old, aluminum frame, double pane. When I say a ton, 16 huge windows in the great room alone with transoms above.

 

[4 FN 27]

I love both of our systems. House and the Shop. Last years highest bill to heat the shop was just over $170 for a month...a Minnesota Winter. 10K sq ft.

 

[My Old Tools]

A couple of pictures....the plate in an A frame mount and attaching the tubes.

 

[kj_mustang]

Assuming that they mounted that in an upright position, it is surprising since that appears to be a public lake. Any concerns of boaters/fishermen snagging that thing.

 

[My Old Tools]

Assuming that they mounted that in an upright position, it is surprising since that appears to be a public lake. Any concerns of boaters/fishermen snagging that thing.

It's a private lake with 20 owners. Since it weighs over 400# dry and we added weights on the legs, anyone that snags it will break off. It's 15 feet down, so 10' under the surface.

 

[kj_mustang]

They might not break off an anchor rope if it gets snagged on it. Something to think about.

 

[My Old Tools]

They might not break off an anchor rope if it gets snagged on it. Something to think about.

nobody anchors on this lake. It's only 50 acres. There are about 5 of us that fish.

 

[My Old Tools]

Update. With half the summer behind us, I'm running over 40% under the same months last year on total electric usage. All of the savings is from the geothermal install, so it is running 60% or more under last year. Savings is over $200 a month this summer and saving $1200-1500 on propane over the winter. I figure total savings is $2500 a year conservatively. Probably more. That's 10 years to pay for the system completely. If you figure $10,000 to by a good conventional heat pump system to replace the one that died, we're about 7 years to break even.

 

[toplessHO]

NIce.

I've had a Waterfurnace 5 series for almost 10 years on an open loop system. Seems to work well. But it hasn't been without its problems. The variable speed ECM motor went out on it a few years back. Worst possible failure mode for these units. No blower motor and you have no heat. Any other component could have failed and I'd at least been able to run Aux heat.

Also had the water desuperheater start leaking.

Both replaced under warranty.

hummm is it the GE motor with the large can on the end of it?
I just replaced the one on the carrier unit here
they arent cheap but i had a spare.

 

[toplessHO]

43.5 is probably under lab conditions.
but still a far cry from my 24yr old unit that does 12 SEER
your 50* water temp also helps increase your SEER.
Here ours is 74*,good for heat,not as good for cooling.

 

[jmdirk]

hummm is it the GE motor with the large can on the end of it?
I just replaced the one on the carrier unit here
they arent cheap but i had a spare.

Brand is Genteq. It has an integrated electronics board on the back of it.

Coincidentally, between the time I made that original post and now, the motor failed again. Not completely mind you, but it wouldn't get over a certain speed. Without enough airflow over the air coil, it would freeze up.

Apparently these ECM motors are specifically programmed by each vendor, so you can't just go out and buy one direct. It must specific to the model of the air handler you're working on.

 

[jkeyser14]

NIce.

I've had a Waterfurnace 5 series for almost 10 years on an open loop system. Seems to work well. But it hasn't been without its problems. The variable speed ECM motor went out on it a few years back. Worst possible failure mode for these units. No blower motor and you have no heat. Any other component could have failed and I'd at least been able to run Aux heat.

Also had the water desuperheater start leaking.

Both replaced under warranty.

I'm going on 20 years of trouble free geothermal as a counterpoint.

 

[toplessHO]

Brand is Genteq. It has an integrated electronics board on the back of it.

Coincidentally, between the time I made that original post and now, the motor failed again. Not completely mind you, but it wouldn't get over a certain speed. Without enough airflow over the air coil, it would freeze up.

Apparently these ECM motors are specifically programmed by each vendor, so you can't just go out and buy one direct. It must specific to the model of the air handler you're working on.

just replaced the one in this Carrier unit with one out of a brand X
works fine
Shhh dont tell anyone on the internet.
That may be true on some but not all.

I should have my Waterfurnace geo install completed tomorrow. It took about 3 months to get the unit, a 5 ton series 7, 43.5 EER and 5.1 COP. I'm replacing two older heat pumps with propane backup, a 3 ton and a 2 ton. My 3 ton died in August and the other one is older. We are going to 3 zones with the single unit. We dropped the Geo Slim lake plate in the lake a few weeks ago, I did the underwater work and it was damn cold. Plate is 4x12 feet rated for 8 tons and its sitting in 15 feet of water in a 50 acre spring fed lake. It has another 400 feet of plastic pipe to feed it as well. Series 7 is full variable speed with a variable speed pump as well. Electric rates went up over 30% this year even on our Co-op. Propane is running $3.15 a gallon. I'm hoping to cut my utility usage 50%. Since I had to replace one unit and the other was old, and neither furnace was high efficiency, I think the extra money for the geo can be money well spent. The government rebate of 30% on my taxes helps too. Our lake won't drop below 45 degrees in the winter, so we should never hit the heat strips.

I just looked up the specs on your 5 ton series 7
the best it will do with 50* water(thats one cold lake) is 29.0 EER

 

[toplessHO]

Neighbor replaced his Fla Heat Pump with a Climatemaster

comparing the specs of his with 80 deg water(Closest chart will go to our real water temp)
to yours at 80*water his is actually higher
Climatemaster EER 20.3
WaterFurnace EER 18

 

[My Old Tools]

Neighbor replaced his Fla Heat Pump with a Climatemaster

comparing the specs of his with 80 deg water(Closest chart will go to our real water temp)
to yours at 80*water his is actually higher
Climatemaster EER 20.3
WaterFurnace EER 18

The best Climatemaster is a two stage unit. The Waterfurnace 7 series is full variable speed, compressor, fan, and pumps.

 

[toplessHO]

The best Climatemaster is a two stage unit. The Waterfurnace 7 series is full variable speed, compressor, fan, and pumps.

agree totally

Neighbors ClimateMaster is 2 stage
Waterfurnace 7 series is variable speed

What gets me is that the WaterFurnace claims that the variable speed outperforms the 2 stage units.
But its clear that the ClimateMaster is better here.
Compare apples to apples.
I have no skin in the game here
my system is neither