German Long Wrenches ?

[malykaii]

So I joined here 5 years ago when I started wrenching professionally. Turns out I never posted as lurking answered everything and taught me a lot about non truck brand tools, but finally I got a question left unanswered.

I now fix trucks. I want German (well, non American just for variety), SAE, and long pattern. Seems I can only pick two, can't get all three in one.

Stahlwille14a... Perfect. Even had a single 1/2 at one point. Problem is it's discontinued.

Hazet 600na... Best price I found is Jens and that will be $250. I've never seen one in real life, so that's too much to spend blindly. Plus can't just buy a loosey like I did with the 14a to try out.

Elora 205... Being their "long" model it's still pretty short. I don't need snap on or gedore 7xl length, but still...

Taiwain... I'd even settle on a toptul or proxxon "German style" set, but I can't find any for sale.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Dave455]

Stahlwille are very nice, but yes, the No.14 Long Series are discontinued in A/F sizes. Last time I looked, "only quality tools" here in the U.K. still had a lot of sizes, but I don't know about full sets!

Hazet - superb tools. Don't have any hesitation about buying unseen. Provided you accept that they are not highly polished tools, you will not be disappointed by these! They are German, long pattern and SAE so isn't that everything you want?

Why can't you buy a loose one to try? If a particular retailer will only sell you a set, then what will happen if you loose one and need to replace it! Find another retailer!

Elora - fine tools, but I'd prefer either of the above!

Taiwan? If you want a German tool you'll probably not be happy with the Taiwanese, and end up buying the German one as well! Save some cash by buying the decent one in the first place!

Do the tools have to be German? They are nice, but relatively expensive in the U.S. because of the distance they travel? If I could get brands like Wright or U.S. made Williams for the price you can in the U.S. then I would!

If you want to distinguish Metric from SAE wrenches, and it's not a bad idea, then bear in mind Wright offer both polished and matte finishes, and Snap On both chrome and industrial!

 

[LordPsychon]

Taiwan? If you want a German tool you'll probably not be happy with the Taiwanese, and end up buying the German one as well! Save some cash by buying the decent one in the first place!

Yeah, for comparison put a Knipex up against a Milwaukee (most Milwaukee pliers/wrenches are Taiwanese made). The Milwaukee may not be terrible but it is really bush league compared to a Knipex.

 

[bahcoswed]

Gedore has a nice serie with long wrenches!

 

[bahcoswed]

edit

 

[shockwave]

Gedore makes some I believe check out samtagsales they have good selection on German tools

 

[malykaii]

I don't believe coo is a tell all of quality. I read the "13mm wrench test" thread fully and the proxxon slimline outdid hazet. Also, doesn't toptul make all the facom stuff?

I want a euro style wrench. Wright grip is my second choice, but I just want to be different.

Problem with hazet is I can't find anyone nearby stocking the stuff, so shipping is pricey. Hence if I buy one wrench it will cost me $50. Is there a different supplier someone can recommend?

Gedore makes SAE? Checking samstag now.

 

[Dan Jacobs]

I've been a German car mechanic for thirty five years
And a tool junkie for longer
so I had to buy Stahwille and Hazet wrenches because they must be better right?
They are nice tools no doubt however Snap on wrenches are comepletely superior in every metric, thinner, stronger, fit better, better metallurgy. Just better tools
This of course is my opinion and your mileage may vary

 

[Jure]

gedore 7 xl

 

[Jure]

I've been a German car mechanic for thirty five years
And a tool junkie for longer
so I had to buy Stahwille and Hazet wrenches because they must be better right?
They are nice tools no doubt however Snap on wrenches are comepletely superior in every metric, thinner, stronger, fit better, better metallurgy. Just better tools
This of course is my opinion and your mileage may vary

i doubt...

 

[ChevyEFI]

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong. Check with Ultimate Garage to see if a range of sizes suiting your needs are available in Facom 40 series, and current production, and Fabriqué en France. I bent a long-pattern Snap-On and do agree you should shop around.

 

[malykaii]

So I just looked into the facom 40/440 and gedore 1b/7.

So all four are still shorter than even the eloras.

I truly wish they made the gedore 7xl in SAE. That thing is so long it's almost too long. So epic.

Facom 40 LA (long pattern) are apparently discontinued first the US market.
I don't understand why these companies are discontinuing long SAE wrenches and leaving the short when the market calls for longer wrenches,

 

[BK13]

Where you're from would be a big help.

 

[malykaii]

Good point. Of all the forums I lurk or join, this is the only international one. I'm in Brooklyn, New York USA and my family is in/from Poland so getting goodies shipped in from there would be cake. But with the weak currency there I doubt that would help.

 

[superautobacs]

I'll throw in the odd brand into the mix: KTC (COO=Japan)

I cross-referenced three sizes against the Elora 205A (3/8, 5/8, 13/16), and the KTC combination wrenches were all longer.

Here's a stock photo:

 

[malykaii]

At first I never heard of KTC, only koken (which sound really cool)... But a quick Google shows that's another name for nepros. It looks so cool and uncommon. I really like it. Thanks for the idea and looking into the sizes.

I tried to find a set, but not too easy. Is there a part number for a set? I see a few dealers on ebay, but they only list metric. I can't see how they wouldn't get me an SAE set with a part number.

Thanks so much!

 

[franzdom]

Nepros is a high end sub-brand for KTC. Nepros line is a lot fewer types of tools.

 

[malykaii]

Got it. Learn something new here every time. Any recommendations on where and how to acquire such awesomeness?

Thanks

 

[franzdom]

Nepros can be ordered direct or some through Frankstools http://www.frankstools.com/ktc-nepros.html
Frankstools is also a good place to get Koken.

 

[malykaii]

Boo, no luck finding those longer KTC wrenches. Frankstools only has the shorter nepros. Anyone have a product number for a KTC set?

I also just ordered a loose elora 1/2 for $10 to try out and see if I can live with shorter. This would open up a lot more options. Otherwise I might just cave and grab a gearwrench long patern set for 75$. Boring, but cheap.

 

[superautobacs]

There's an 8 piece set (part # TMS208B) which contains: MS2-1/4、3/8、7/16、1/2、9/16、5/8、11/16、3/4

Comes in this tray:

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/happytools/item/ktc-tms208/?s-id=borderless_recommend_item_en


I can also suggest contacting [email protected] to order your KTC tools.

After typing all this I realized that Nepros also has a small selection of SAE tools!

I just compared the lengths for a few select sizes and it looks like they are very similar in lengths. If you love glistening chrome, look no further--Nepros does it better than any other tool company in the world. I've seen a lot of different brands of chrome and I can confidently say that Nepros' surface finishing is in a league of its own. Oh, it's not just the mirror-like chrome though. The fit, finish, and attention to detail are some other key attributes for Nepros tools.

You can purchase them here (you're dealing directly with KTC in Kyoto, Japan): http://www.nepros.net/?cat=3&grp=14

 

[superautobacs]

I read your opinions on another thread of yours about the Elora and Stahlwille wrenches that you purchased. Based on what I read, you want something different, you want meticulous attention to detail in fit and finish, and want the extra length. I have a feeling Nepros SAE combos would be the next best candidate.

 

[tweedlestan]

I've been a German car mechanic for thirty five years
And a tool junkie for longer
so I had to buy Stahwille and Hazet wrenches because they must be better right?
They are nice tools no doubt however Snap on wrenches are comepletely superior in every metric, thinner, stronger, fit better, better metallurgy. Just better tools
This of course is my opinion and your mileage may vary

Not sure where you're coming from in several respects, but I'll challenge you on just one point.

You say that Snap on wrenches are thinner than Stahlwille? Would you care to provide picture proof?

 

[Adam.C]

I'd look to snap on high performance wrenches in both configurations, 0 offset and the 15 degree models. Unless you really need open ends, these hi performance patterns are just better box wrenches than box wrenches of yore. They are longer, stronger, with finer rings.

Not sure if they are available in the monster sizes a truck mechanic might need. If you want something a bit different looking, get the industrial finished models.

 

[maico]

Not sure where you're coming from in several respects, but I'll challenge you on just one point.

You say that Snap on wrenches are thinner than Stahlwille? Would you care to provide picture proof?

The SO strength statement is also untrue going on the Japanese magazine test results. Not that particularly matters. The top quartile performers can normally shear off automotive grade bolts before bending.

 

[Olafur]

The SO strength statement is also untrue going on the Japanese magazine test results. Not that particularly matters. The top quartile performers can normally shear off automotive grade bolts before bending.

Not seen this, got link?

 

[Olafur]

I'll throw in the odd brand into the mix: KTC (COO=Japan)

I cross-referenced three sizes against the Elora 205A (3/8, 5/8, 13/16), and the KTC combination wrenches were all longer.

Here's a stock photo:

This wrench looks really good. But looking at the broaching on the closed end I wonder if it is just regular "hex" - sharp corners judging by the pic.

 

[Adam.C]

Not sure where you're coming from in several respects, but I'll challenge you on just one point.

You say that Snap on wrenches are thinner than Stahlwille? Would you care to provide picture proof?

It's really tough to compare these wrenches since each has its own unique characteristics. And there are a bunch of different models of each.

I compared Hazet, Stahlwile, Gedore, and Snap On combination wrenches. The wrench with the thinnest ends is the std length Gedore 7 at 170mm long. But this is a fairly short combination wrench by modern standards.

When you compare the wrenches that are closer to 200mm long, Snap On has the thinnest ends. Data below:

View media item 50508
The chart above is based on each manufacturer's published catalogue data. Black or blue bolded numbers indicate "best" in each catagory, red numbers indicate "worst". Note that is is merely comparitive data, not any real indication of a tool being "bad" or "good".

Just so we're clear, I considered long length to be an advantage for the long pattern wrenches, but short length to be an advantage for short wrenches. My logic was, when you want a long wrench you want the longest you can get. When you reach for a short wrench, you want the shortest you can get. The reality is, the German DIN spec considers the lengths shown to be mid-sized. The spec also limits how long a wrench should be. Whatever- you can see the numbers for yourself and make up your own minds.

Proof torque specs shown in green above are from the latest versions of the specs. Note that the latest version of the ASME spec now exceeds the DIN. This doesn't say which wrench is actually stronger, only what the minimum reqt is.

One other thing I noticed that surprised me: The long Stahlwile have smaller box end outer diamters than their std length (18.6mm, vs 19.1mm) and both are slightly smaller than Snap On (20mm). It could be that you can't have both thin and a small outer profile. Snap On chose thin, Stahwile chose the smaller outer profile. If you want a small outer profile from Snap On you need to buy the high performance models I recommended above. These are as small as the Stahwile long combos and Stahlwile HPQ.

If you are looking for the world's best wrenches or bragging rights, good luck! I personally would pick (and recommend) long over just about every other feature, because that makes my part easier. That is what drove me to my preference for the Snap On high performance series/Stahlwile HPQ (almost identical) in an earlier post. Comparable 13mm HP/HPQ wrenches might be over 270mm.

Other criteria not considered are features like Snap On's open end Flank Drive Plus. This works as advertised, but I'm not sure I'd want to score fasteners on a show car. So while I see the value in it for some applications, I think I would avoid using it in others. As far as I could tell, the Porsche factory uses Hazet wrenches. Their solution is to make a very tight fitting open end that is really best suited to high quality, high grade hardware in new condition.

The point of this post was just to compare sizes, not offer criteria by which we could determine who made (owns) the best wrenches.

 

[maico]

I just pulled the trigger on these. I'm VAT registered here in England which reduces the price pain to 84 euros / £61 GBP / $94 for a 15 wrench set

http://www.tbs-aachen.de/Stahlwille...nation_spanners_OPEN-BOX_long_i3736_49681.htm


It's a no-brainer really, a smaller 13 piece Snap-On set is 5 x the price in the UK !!!

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=674993&store=uk

 

[Monte]

I just pulled the trigger on these. I'm VAT registered here in England which reduces the price pain to 84 euros / £61 GBP / $94 for a 15 wrench set

http://www.tbs-aachen.de/Stahlwille...nation_spanners_OPEN-BOX_long_i3736_49681.htm

Damn what´s that for a price ! wtf !! too cheap

need to do some Stahlwilly shopping here:
http://www.tbs-aachen.de/Stahlwille_Aktion_c3736.htm

 

[maico]

Monte, get a friend to hide your wallet before it's to late.

 

[crbnfbr]

I know you are looking for something exotic, but I thought I'd suggest Williams Supercombo wrenches anyway. They aren't the thickest open and box ends, but their beams are really thick and feel great in your hands. I used to have an Imperial set that I loved but just never used them.

The open ends up to 1.25" also have what is nearly identical to "flank drive plus" above that they're just standard open ends.

 

[Bran Diezel]

Been using snap on for years, still have about 11 of their wrench sets but recently switched my main set to hazet 600n in my tool cart. They are slightly shorter but they are lighter and the beam is a better shape so I can get more power through my hands with them.

 

[superautobacs]

This wrench looks really good. But looking at the broaching on the closed end I wonder if it is just regular "hex" - sharp corners judging by the pic.

Your observation is indeed correct. The catalogue shows it as well, with the lack of the "Power-fit" symbol. Not the case with the Nepros wrenches though.

 

[nowlan]

I priced up some of the TBS specials last week, but their shipping to Australia went up faster than Amazon.de (hazet). Balancing act.

 

[malykaii]

Superautobacs... A lot of respect and thanks for actually noticing and acknowledging my bizarre situation. Thanks for following along. I'm a bit disappointed that Elora produces such a nice quality wrench at such a great price, yet makes it so damn short. Makes me wonder what the 203 series, a mislabeled stubby?
*The KTC satin does indeed look like a work of art. Its almost perfect. However, it is only a handful of millimeters longer than the elora. Paired with the difficulty to obtain, I'll very sadly pass.

AdamC... 20% of my tools are domestic and the remaining 80% are imports trying to look domestic. I am really just looking for something different to catch my eye for a change, but you might be right that what best suits my needs isn't made of unobtanium, but readily available. Hell, I think I might just buy the long pattern non ratcheting SAE gearwrench for $90 and get back to work lolz.

I just compared my loose stahlwille 1/2 to a s.o. 13mm, and the s.o. is indeed thinner. Elora is known to be thin, so I'll compare that tomorrow.

Crbnfbr... am considering the Williams satin suppercombos as my last resort if I can't find something exotic. Normally,I want a tool, and I buy it, this wrench thing is out of hand, I have "last resort" backup options. Oh well.

Bran, may I pick your brain? So I too am used to domestic s.o. style lengths. So far the hazet 600na is the only set I can find comming fairly close in length that isn't discontinued or unavailable. I just can't pull the trigger on $250 worth of tools I can't check out. Are they, to you, worth the money? Where did you get them?

 

[malykaii]

I admit to criticizing stahlwille wrenches as overpriced for what they provide. However, at a little over $100 for 15 new long pattern wrenches? That's plenty fair. (Too bad SAE is discontinued)

I just found out my lady is going to London next month on business. I'm in for a second set of metrics at that price. Seeing it's in German and I don't trust Google translate enough... can anyone fill me in on buying? Can I just have them ship those wrenches to a London address,for a reasonable price and she brings them home? thanks guys

 

[apdxyk]

Karl Walter long pattern is a true unobtanium in the States. The best metallurgy, the thinnest ends, the impeccable laconic aesthetics. I love their phosphatised finish that makes them look unappealing for them tool thieves. Classy and functional.

 

[maico]

I admit to criticizing stahlwille wrenches as overpriced for what they provide. However, at a little over $100 for 15 new long pattern wrenches? That's plenty fair. (Too bad SAE is discontinued)

I just found out my lady is going to London next month on business. I'm in for a second set of metrics at that price. Seeing it's in German and I don't trust Google translate enough... can anyone fill me in on buying? Can I just have them ship those wrenches to a London address,for a reasonable price and she brings them home? thanks guys

The website is in English. Select the Union Jack symbol. The prices shown include 19% sales tax. If you are exporting out of the EU via mail that is knocked off the price.

 

[crbnfbr]

The website is in English. Select the Union Jack symbol. The prices shown include 19% sales tax. If you are exporting out of the EU via mail that is knocked off the price.

So, it sounds like I can order a 15pc set of the Stahlwille long patterns for roughly $115 + shipping to the USA? That seems too good to be true.

I just created an account and it showed the total it'd be with shipping and it comes out $141.46 shipped. Great, just what I need another set of wrenches.