German made tools and US prices.

[IATool]

Kind of irritated at how German made tools are twice as expensive in the US for no reason. I have been slowly replacing my Chicom tools with higher end brands like Wera, Stahlwille and Knipex.
Snap On is good, but can't warrant the price.
Especially some brands like Stahlwille. For some odd reason, Knipex tools are roughly the same price in the USA as they are in Germany / Europe.

So is Wera, maybe slightly less, but not as dramatic as Stahlwille.

To really put the screws to you, a lot of brands, like Stahlwille, will not honor warranties if you buy directly from Germany.

I am not sure why this is, maybe some kind of price fixing thing?
So the prices don't make for too much competition?

I mean, most things cost about the same amount of money in most countries. Otherwise people would be buying say TV's directly from Asia if they could buy them half as much.

I had a bad experience with a retailer called Chad's Tool Box.
I decided to order about $150 worth of tools from KC Tool and at first they were nice and price matched. Their price matching is odd and requires you to buy 1st and then ask for a refund.

Ok, no big deal. I then put in an order for about $200 worth of tools and now all of a sudden they won't price match. "We would be losing money". OK...your obviously getting these tools from Germany, and at a wholesale rate. So if your twice as much as German distributors, how can you be losing money?

Why offer a price match if you won't honor it?

I would order directly from Germany, but it's kind of on rocky ground right now due to Covid.

Not having a warranty isn't a huge deal, I just can't figure out why the US distributors for Stahlwille want twice as much for their tools.
Even more..
As an example, the largest wrench I ordered was a Stahlwille 13 Size 19mm, $26.08 from KC Tool.
That same tool from Mister Worker (based in Germany) is $13.48.

 

[Ralf11]

similar issue with Facom - pico bit ratchet set is $80 en France; $125 here

Lack of competition?

 

[measuredtwice]

High volume has lower costs per unit. Low volume has higher costs per unit.

Knipex has a very large distribution in the USA and is available from Walmart and Amazon online. You can even walk into a Menards and buy.

Brands that don't have that kind of volume and distribution in the USA are going to have higher costs per unit. AND if a seller is actually ordering small quantities to be shipped internationally rather than shipping or drop shipping from a USA warehouse then costs are going to be very high.

If you search this forum, you'll find a lot of complaints about Chad's. I bought from Chad's many years ago but not recently.

 

[IATool]

I decided to order the German tools from Mister Worker and will return the ones ordered from KC Tool when they arrive. Usually I wouldn't mess with it, but it's about a $80 difference which is too much to not correct.

 

[measuredtwice]

KC Tool has a 10% off coupon for GJ forum members. It won't help with $80 unless your order was $800 but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[Qualitytools]

I have also experienced extremely poor service from Chad's tools but have had excellent service from KC

 

[IATool]

I have also experienced extremely poor service from Chad's tools but have had excellent service from KC

Ya same here. I don't know what possessed them (KC Tools) to honor a price match on one order then flat out deny it on the next.

Oh well, I can give another company my money. If your going to "case by case" price matches, then don't have one at all.

 

[CGarage]

You all fail to realize that the Euro:USD has fluctuated and pricing for tools is dynamic and never static. I was able to get a USAG Pico set out of Italy for ~55 Euro on sale last year.

 

[CGarage]

I decided to order the German tools from Mister Worker and will return the ones ordered from KC Tool when they arrive. Usually I wouldn't mess with it, but it's about a $80 difference which is too much to not correct.

Very sleazy to return an order after you placed it because you found it cheaper elsewhere. Be a better shopper. That is not cool.

 

[IATool]

Very sleazy to return an order after you placed it because you found it cheaper elsewhere. Be a better shopper. That is not cool.

Normally I would not, but it's also sleazy to have a price match and then deny it.

It's also not cool to have an "after you paid" price match system which means you won't even know if they will price match until you place an order.

 

[CGarage]

I have also experienced extremely poor service from Chad's tools but have had excellent service from KC

Excellent service costs money.
When you have customers who are willing to return an order back to a Small Business because they found it cheaper elsewhere and yet expect First Class quality service, this is what we call values not aligning and being on two different pages morally/ethically.

 

[CGarage]

Normally I would not, but it's also sleazy to have a price match and then deny it.

It's also not cool to have an "after you paid" price match system which means you won't even know if they will price match until you place an order.

They need to abide by the price matching if it was offered.

 

[WittHay]

Doesn't price matching usually have fine print. Usually in stock only and in the same country. KMS tools up here has price matching with some disclaimers. Probably something in KC website that has fine print like will match US based stores only.

No experience with Mr.Worker but do they actually have a huge warehouse in Italy filled with tools or do they just drop ship from different warehouses in the EU. I assume no warranty and a harder return policy than a US based company.

 

[measuredtwice]

I decided to order about $150 worth of tools from KC Tool and at first they were nice and price matched. Their price matching is odd and requires you to buy 1st and then ask for a refund.

Ok, no big deal. I then put in an order for about $200 worth of tools and now all of a sudden they won't price match.

You misunderstood. Their policy is to contact them first. I've done it. Here's a link to the policy --> https://www.kctoolco.com/faq/#prd4

Just because they were able to give a price match for your first order doesn't mean they'll be able to price match any order. It's case by case so just contact them each time before you order.

Do you price match?
We do our best to offer you the best German tools at competitive prices. However, should a US online competitor be offering an in stock like for like product at a cheaper price we will do our best to match it. All price matches are done on a case by case basis and will take competitor shipping charges and taxes in to consideration.

Please contact our customer service team via email ([email protected]) or phone at (913) 440-9766 for more information

 

[pizza]

i agree with the assessment that the OP should have contacted KC first for price match info. but i'm not here to chew him out for being a bad customer, either. i'm sure i've done worse things at least partially out of ignorance. i think most people learn from their mistakes and try to be more considerate customers (and people) over time. it pays to research first and communicate with whom you do business when in doubt about policies.

 

[MJK]

I've noticed the same thing as the OP. I value quality service from reputable resellers, but am not sure why I should pay almost double to get that from a US based company compared to a European one.

Price matching is a waste of my time. I'd rather give my business to Amazon.de, Tbs-aachen.com(special sales are awesome), primetools.co.uk, etc.

 

[pizza]

I'd rather give my business to Amazon.de, Tbs-aachen.com(special sales are awesome), primetools.co.uk, etc.

what's your impression of Tbs-aachen.com vs amazon.de? i've never heard of the former.

is it ever cheaper overall than azde outside of these sales you speak of?

 

[bob15]

Very sleazy to return an order after you placed it because you found it cheaper elsewhere. Be a better shopper. That is not cool.

Why is it sleazy? It is called doing business.

So you have never returned an item before?

 

[MJK]

what's your impression of Tbs-aachen.com vs amazon.de? i've never heard of the former.

is it ever cheaper overall than azde outside of these sales you speak of?

Both are excellent. Amazon.de freight rates are a lot lower, but they don't participate in a lot of the special offers that TBS has nor do they have the selection. Total (delivered) price varies a lot and is worth shopping on a case by case basis.

With TBS I tend to bundle knickknacks I want with a deal 'too good to pass up'. As an example, the HAZET 600N/15 Minibox set is currently 125 Euro (no VAT) plus quite expensive (45 Euro) shipping. But, you can add a few items and the incremental shipping is negligible.

 

[pizza]

Why is it sleazy? It is called doing business.

So you have never returned an item before?

i wouldn't call it sleazy, but i would call it inconsiderate.

when a customer returns something, a business feels it, especially a smaller one. the biz wastes their time processing it (sending it out, checking the condition when they get it back, etc), and they probably have to eat some merchant fees. depending on their policies, they may even eat shipping fees if they offered free shipping.

a good customer avoids getting into this situation in the first place by researching and communicating. that way, there is less temptation to return stuff.

still, it's hardly a cardinal sin.

 

[bob15]

i wouldn't call it sleazy, but i would call it inconsiderate.

when a customer returns something, a business feels it, especially a smaller one. the biz wastes their time processing it (sending it out, checking the condition when they get it back, etc), and they probably have to eat some merchant fees. depending on their policies, they may even eat shipping fees if they offered free shipping.

a good customer avoids getting into this situation in the first place by researching and communicating. that way, there is less temptation to return stuff.

still, it's hardly a cardinal sin.

Still no different than returning an item in person to a B&M store and we have all done that for a multitude of reasons.

As for costs of processing it, that is all built into the price of the item and is why some companies have a re-stocking fee.

 

[neophyte]

Channellock pliers are sold in Germany, and cost 50%-100% more than what the pliers cost in the USA.
Estwing hammers can cost two or three times as much in Europe as they do in the USA, and Estwing hammers serm to be exported to a number of countries.

When manufacturers export tools, there are import duties that have to be paid, which increase the cost of those tools in the country the tools are exported to.
In addition, many of the import brands might be niche products in the foreign country, which lowers sales volume and increases distribution and other costs, so the prices are higher.
Meanwhile, if a tool seller in the original manufacturing country is willing to export the item to the US, import duties can sometimes be avoided if the value is below a certain amount, so the only extra cost are shipping fees, which nay be high or low depending on whether the seller ships by air or just uses lower cost options.

 

[JBH]

I am not sure why this is, maybe some kind of price fixing thing? So the prices don't make for too much competition?

If it's a universal thing, there's probably a reason. I'll give you two.

First, Americans have been conditioned to pay a lot for tools. If a company wants customers to think their product is "premium" or "professional," they can't really undercut the white van companies on price. Why would the German manufacturers willingly leave money on the table when they can make their wholesale pricing a little bit less than the white van companies?

Second, I expect due to provincialism and their lack of bling, as well as the fact that German tool companies tend to be "mittelstand" (medium-sized), family owned-and-operated tool manufacturers, the quantities sold for most German tool brands are not particularly high. By contrast, the norm in the US is a publicly-traded financing company with tool sideline. An EU market vender will have more pricing power, because the quantities sold are higher.

Ultimately, businesses have to pay their employees and owners. Whether you think it's worth paying higher prices to support small businesses that are so customer service focused that give you the option, for example, to buy screwdriver bits in single quantities is a personal call. I prefer to support businesses such as KC Tool if pricing is remotely close (say ±25%), because I personally perceive them to add value. That's not always the case, of course, and I've done my fair share of tool buying on amazon.x, Mister Worker, TBS, and so on.

I mean, most things cost about the same amount of money in most countries.

Huh? No offense but I take it you haven't lived in many other countries, because experienced travelers and ex-pats know arbitrage is very much a thing.

Consider Alden shoes, a fine, distinctive American product with a niche audience worldwide. A basic pair of longwings costs about 600 USD.
https://www.theshoemart.com/alden-mens-979-long-wing-burnished-tan-calfskin/
However, in Germany the same shoes are 650 EUR (~770 USD).
https://www.zumnorde.de/alden-schnuerschuh-cognac-46032890003.html#pl-select-430

Another example: Cadbury "Flake" chocolate bars, a niche British candy. "Cadbury" in the US (the brand is licensed by Hershey, and the chocolate tastes like it...) does not produce Flake locally, but it is available for purchase locally in a niche British food shop and occasionally in Arab or Persian specialty groceries. However, the cost in dollars is roughly 2.5x what one pays at Tesco outside the Earl's Court tube stop in London.

 

[WittHay]

My opinion is the higher cost of imported tools has more to do with Amazon, than a small businessman selling tools from a white, yellow or purple van.

KC tools is a brick and mortar business in Kansas. In order to sell more tools they have to have free shipping so the price goes up. They have a have a good return policy so people like the OP can return something for any reason. so the price goes up. It costs money to actually have tools in stock instead of drop shipping.

You can be a diy tool importer and bring in grey market tools with no warranty. Of course its going to be cheaper. All I can gather from Mr. Workers website is its a computer program in Italy that takes your money and somehow figures out what warehouse and what trucking company to get you that grey market tool the cheapest from some where in the European Union

 

[Matt XYZ]

Channellock pliers are sold in Germany, and cost 50%-100% more than what the pliers cost in the USA.
Estwing hammers can cost two or three times as much in Europe as they do in the USA, and Estwing hammers serm to be exported to a number of countries.

When manufacturers export tools, there are import duties that have to be paid, which increase the cost of those tools in the country the tools are exported to.
In addition, many of the import brands might be niche products in the foreign country, which lowers sales volume and increases distribution and other costs, so the prices are higher.
Meanwhile, if a tool seller in the original manufacturing country is willing to export the item to the US, import duties can sometimes be avoided if the value is below a certain amount, so the only extra cost are shipping fees, which nay be high or low depending on whether the seller ships by air or just uses lower cost options.

Neophyte hit on a lot of the factors. The Euro has strengthened against the $ over the past month or so, plus import fees, shipping costs, etc. Remember US customers are normally not paying the 19% Value Added Tax (currently reduced as a Covid Stimulus) that most Germans are paying. So buying an German tool here costs me an extra 18% exchange rate and 19% VAT. The VAT isn't factored into Amazon.de. In reality, I don't think buying a German tool in the US is that much more expensive than a German pays here.

 

[James W]

Primetools.co.uk has always been good for me when buying Stahlwille, sometimes you can catch some good sales and being VAT exempt essentially covers the duty when importing into canada

 

[PeteW]

Ya same here. I don't know what possessed them (KC Tools) to honor a price match on one order then flat out deny it on the next.

Oh well, I can give another company my money. If your going to "case by case" price matches, then don't have one at all.

Because you tried to get them to price match with an online source that is outside of the US.

...However, should a US online competitor be offering an in stock like for like product at a cheaper price we will do our best to match it...

Mister Worker is not a US online competitor, yet KC Tool took the time to review and see if they could match it. They couldn't and don't need to as it's outside of their policy.

I remember years ago when B&M stores had price match guarantees that excluded online stores. Same thing. Would you be as mad at them if they price matched Harbor Freight down the street, but not Amazon.com?

 

[Ralf11]

on a positive note, KC Tools is finally shipping my last order; took them 4 days

 

[Samuel D]

Channellock pliers are sold in Germany, and cost 50%-100% more than what the pliers cost in the USA.
Estwing hammers can cost two or three times as much in Europe as they do in the USA, and Estwing hammers serm to be exported to a number of countries.

Or take Snap-on. Way more expensive in Europe than in the US and fewer used options (often basically none, if you’re looking for something specific).

I’d own way more Snap-on tools than I do if I had the chance to buy them at the low, low US prices.

 

[Ralf11]

maybe this is a good thread to ask if Hazet is better than Stahlwille...

 

[dnschmidt]

I don't know if Hazet is better than Stahlwille but I do know that TOPTUL in Taiwan doesn't think so because whenever they "borrow" a tool design they always copy Stahlwille. To them they are the world standard and have flat out told me that.

 

[JBH]

maybe this is a good thread to ask if Hazet is better than Stahlwille...

Better at what?

 

[JR 42]

I've only ordered from KC Tool once or twice, but my impression is that they've got their **** together.

It took a little while for a couple backordered things to get to them, as expected. I got a free #2 Phillips bit in a sack with a card ("A Bit of Thanks") and some Wera promotional fliers included (guitar tool set, etc.), and their free sticker pack was a nice touch as well. All the stuff was in individual bags, and the packing tape on the box had their logo printed on it.

My takeaway is that they have an effective marketing department, and are operating in an upper tier of retail- they're not just drop- shipping stuff willy- nilly. That effort costs some money.

They run discounts on random items on their site, and I check the Tool of the Day regularly, though I haven't bought one yet. Haven't had to deal with any returns or issues, or tried to price- match anything- just bought stuff I wanted that seemed like a good value.

 

[928'er]

Short answer: Donald Trump and his import tariffs

You might try Jens Putzier. He runs a tool company out of Germany and is a member here (although I haven't seen him post recently).

Haven't bought a lot from him, but got a really good deal on a set of Stahlwille deep offset box end wrenches from him a few years ago.

https://www.jensputzier.com/

 

[WittHay]

maybe this is a good thread to ask if Hazet is better than Stahlwille...

Dont know which is better but Hazet was sold up here for about 30 years from a local brick+mortar store. Quite a bit used Hazet is available from Craigslist and swap meets.

Catalog from 1966 with Hazet at the top of the list. Store front from the old Thomas Skinner location in Vancouver with the Hazet sign which most people have past by over the years.

Sample of some 3/8 sockets on Craiglist with a couple of Protos showing the difference in design between North American and European sockets

Stahlwille I believe was also sold up here but is far less common than Hazet

Kind of too bad there is not more of a dealer presence for German tools in North America at present day. Have some Hazet torx and hex bit sockets that are top notch but aint gonna mail order tools for work purposes

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Yeah I bought both locally from industrial suppliers , and they cost less than Proto from industrial suppliers.

When I was young between jobs I worked for an importer, china mostly. He paid roughly 10% of the retail price overseas. He then had to pay duty, shipping and warehousing. His wholesale price was 50% of the retail price. These ratios are pretty standard.