German Micrometers?

[plier_able]

There seems to be pretty general acceptance that Mitutoyo makes the best micrometers.

I am wondering, given Knipex and other excellent German hand tools, why I don't hear about German micrometers?

Or maybe its just me? Monte where are you!

 

[redleg]

I believe that Mahr-Federal is German. They are very good but I have not seen many that can take some of the same rough treatment that I have seen a Mitutoyo take in a factory setting and still work.

 

[bob15]

There seems to be pretty general acceptance that Mitutoyo makes the best micrometers.

According to whom????? I believe B&S is the "old stand-by" and also the best out there.

Learn about mics:

http://www.longislandindicator.com/p29.html

 

[stokester]

Learn about mics:

http://www.longislandindicator.com/p29.html

Very informative link - thanks!

_Nick

 

[In The Doghouse]

Starrett micrometers are the best and B&S are right up there too. My Starrett set was purchased 25 years ago.
Interesting read linked above in that he doesn't like Starett. I'll check country of mfg of mine today.

 

[bob15]

Starrett micrometers are the best and B&S are right up there too.

Be careful with starrett because a lot of their stuff isn't the best (though it is prevalent in the workplace because of marketing), and they also have a lot of stuff coming out of china. Yes, I have 4 or 5 Starrett mics (up to 6"), 3 or 4 B&S mics and a Mitutoyo mic and prefer the B&S. Mainly the feel of them, they seem smoother.

Examples of what starrett has sent to china (not including the saws blades that comes out of South America):

http://www.grainger.com/product/STARRETT-Dial-Caliper-w-Case-2ZUE3?s_pp=false&sgAttributes=

http://www.grainger.com/product/STARRETT-Mini-Magnetic-Base-2ZUL7?s_pp=false&sgAttributes=

http://www.grainger.com/product/STARRETT-Precision-Tool-Set-w-o-Output-2ZUN6?s_pp=false&sgAttributes=

http://www.grainger.com/product/STARRETT-Pin-Gage-Set-4CEU2?s_pp=false&sgAttributes=

http://www.grainger.com/product/STARRETT-Precision-Square-3AER2?s_pp=false&sgAttributes=

 

[OUTRIGGER]

TESSA (Swiss manuf.)

 

[bob15]

TESSA (Swiss manuf.)

Same as a Swiss made B&S (same company and factory)

 

[Monte]

i don´t know if Mahr mics are still made here, i think most cheaper hand measuring tools are outsourced nowadays (asia, eastern europe).

Hartig mics are made here: www.hartig-germany.com

"Ultra" also make some mics here:
www.ultra-germany.com

There are other companies who make measuring tools here, some are specialized, some offer a complete line-up but i don´t know which products are made in-house or sourced elsewhere:
a selection:
www.vogel-germany.de
www.helios-preisser.de
www.kroeplin.com
www.kaefer-messuhren.de
www.feinmess-suhl.com
www.oskar-schwenk.de
www.horst-benzing.de
www.zeiss.com
www.pza.de

 

[plier_able]

According to whom????? I believe B&S is the "old stand-by" and also the best out there.

I guess 'old' might be the most operative word.

Tessa/B&S and the equivalent in the UK, Moore and Wright, all make great mics - but Mitutoyo (US and Japan) seem to be the leader in metrology these days and now even make a sub-micron (μm) micrometer.

I guess my OP was expressing surprise, that given the position of German hand tools (Knipex, NWS etc), their measuring instruments don't seem to occupy the same place.

 

[bob15]

I guess 'old' might be the most operative word.

T but Mitutoyo (US and Japan) seem to be the leader in metrology these days and now even make a sub-micron (μm) micrometer.

I guess my OP was expressing surprise, that given the position of German hand tools (Knipex, NWS etc), their measuring instruments don't seem to occupy the same place.

Sorry, i don't see Mitutoyo as the leader......I see it as Federal/Mahr & Starrett being out in front with "normal" toolroom accuracies in precision metrology equipment (accurate to ranges up to and beyond .0001).

As for the Germans, yes they make very nice tools, but I see most precision tools were made predominantly in New England over the past 150 years. look at where most precision tool makers were located:

Starrett ~ Athol, Mass
Brown & Sharpe ~ Providence (later North Kingston), RI
Federal ~ Providence, RI
Pratt & Whitney ~Bloomfield, CT
Ames ~ Waltham, Mass

Take it a step further and go back about 100+ years ago and one of the most precise items being made was firearms. Look at where a majority of these companies were made: New England and New York State. Why? Because of the high skill labor force. Yes, Holland and Holland and JP Sauer were made outside the US, but look at where these companies were made: Marlin, Savage, Winchester, Ruger, Remington, Ithaca, Colt, S&W, Stevens, Richardson, Spencer, Sharps, Henry, etc.

I see Pratt & Whitney metrology equipment as being probably some of the most accurate equipment out there. Corning also make some very precise laser equipment, such as their Flatmaster.

Go into a shop that has clearance tolerances to millionths and beyond you will see a lot more brands than you mentioned.

Want one of the ultimate outside mics:

http://www.prattandwhitney.com/images/customer-files/supermicrometer_external1.pdf

Laser measuring:

http://www.prattandwhitney.com/images/customer-files/measuring_systems1.pdf


bob

 

[A_Pmech]

....most precision tools were made predominantly in New England over the past 150 years. look at where most precision tool makers were located:

Starrett ~ Athol, Mass
Brown & Sharpe ~ Providence (later North Kingston), RI
Federal ~ Providence, RI
Pratt & Whitney ~Bloomfield, CT
Ames ~ Waltham, Mass

Take it a step further and go back about 100+ years ago and one of the most precise items being made was firearms. Look at where a majority of these companies were made: New England and New York State....

And it took a Swede to make them all jibe and march to the same drum.

 

[Steinmetz]

According to whom????? I believe B&S is the "old stand-by" and also the best out there.

Learn about mics:

http://www.longislandindicator.com/p29.html

Until B&S discovered plastic. Also, I never could get used to those slant line barrels.

 

[bob15]

Until B&S discovered plastic. Also, I never could get used to those slant line barrels.

I agree.

thank god they made straight line as well.......Maybe if all you ever used were slant lines it wouldn't be an issue, but going back and forth, slant lines are too confusing.

 

[Steinmetz]

I agree.

thank god they made straight line as well.......Maybe if all you ever used were slant lines it wouldn't be an issue, but going back and forth, slant lines are too confusing.

B&S. Originators of the ".025 error".

 

[bob15]

B&S. Originators of the ".025 error".

LOL....so very true

 

[plier_able]

Go into a shop that has clearance tolerances to millionths and beyond you will see a lot more brands than you mentioned.

Want one of the ultimate outside mics:

http://www.prattandwhitney.com/images/customer-files/supermicrometer_external1.pdf

Well yes, historically I think that is probably right. But not now.

My reference to ultimate outside mics (the Mitutoyo sub micron) was to to hand-held ones (ie., 'tools') - not bench instruments.

If you want the best ultimate measurements presently availalble, you need microscopy - an atomic force microscope for materials and transmission electron microscopy for biological materials. But I don't think those are quite what "The Garage Journal" is usually about.

 

[justanengineer]

Sorry, i don't see Mitutoyo as the leader......I see it as Federal/Mahr & Starrett being out in front with "normal" toolroom accuracies in precision metrology equipment (accurate to ranges up to and beyond .0001).

+1. One of our gagemakers at work clued me in on Mitutoyo's lil quirks and his guess as to the reason - bc Americans seem to do a much better job working with the metric system than foreigners do working with US imperial. JME, but Mitutoyo screws the pooch quite a bit when youre buying sets, often leaving out a common size.

FWIW, Starrett will custom engineer any measuring device to any tolerance you could want, just as Mit does, just bring over the truckload of $$$.

 

[ganymede]

How sad that according to Long Island Indicator, Starrett no longer makes good micrometers. They used to be right up there with B&S .
They (Long Island ) say that the Euro made Brown & Sharpe are good but the US stuff isn't and isn't even mfg'd by B&S .
Shame.

 

[c39er]

I have old Starrett tools I bought on 1975-good quality. I would never buy cheap *** china Starrett!

 

[ttpete]

I have a 0-25 mm Mauser mike. I also have a 0-1" Etalon that is Swiss made. It's kind of unique because the spindle is geared up so one turn = .1". There are 100 graduations on an oversize barrel. No more .025 stuff.

 

[mofo62]

i don´t know if Mahr mics are still made here, i think most cheaper hand measuring tools are outsourced nowadays (asia, eastern europe).

Hartig mics are made here: www.hartig-germany.com

"Ultra" also make some mics here:
www.ultra-germany.com

There are other companies who make measuring tools here, some are specialized, some offer a complete line-up but i don´t know which products are made in-house or sourced elsewhere:
a selection:
www.vogel-germany.de
www.helios-preisser.de
www.kroeplin.com
www.kaefer-messuhren.de
www.feinmess-suhl.com
www.oskar-schwenk.de
www.horst-benzing.de
www.zeiss.com
www.pza.de

Nice informatio!Thanks Monte


V!

 

[sonvolt]

I have a 0-25 mm Mauser mike. I also have a 0-1" Etalon that is Swiss made. It's kind of unique because the spindle is geared up so one turn = .1". There are 100 graduations on an oversize barrel. No more .025 stuff.

I have an old Mauser micrometer as well. Handed down from my Father. I know Helios used to be made in Germany. I have a B&S .0005" drop indicator made in Germany, it is about 10 years old.

 

[Dave455]

There seems to be pretty general acceptance that Mitutoyo makes the best micrometers.

I don't think so!

If all you've ever encountered in your life is Mitutoyo and cheapo Chinese then obviously the Mitutoyo are superior, but... There are many better!

If you are buying used (and why not, micrometers are simple and durable so there's every reason to buy used) then a Starrett or Moore and Wright of 20 years ago will be streets ahead of the comparable Mitutoyo.

New, the a Swiss made Tesa is probably the standard by which all others are judged!

Mitutoyo are 'o.k', but the reason that so many factories use their stuff is that they can get everything from the same source, rather than buying a Micrometer from one maker, a dial gauge from another, and so on. In the U.K. much of this stuff is also sold off once the calibration certificate expires, so there isn't really much of an incentive to buy 'top end'!

Incidentally, Tesa make a superb digital micrometer! It's a micrometer rather than a vernier, so it's really durable (unlike most digital verniers) but it's got a big easy to read display, and you can even flip between Imperial and Metric!

 

[davethorik]

Mitutoyo's older stuff was better than their new stuff. Just like all the American companies. I'm talking the emerald green framed micrometers, cursive Mitutoyo script.

Newer starrett mikes are junky. Starrett, as well as Mitutoyo, have been making micrometers that aren't engraved any more...laser etched. Not a big fan of that.

My favorite mic's are Lufkin, made in Saginaw Michigan. Haven't been made since the late 60's but I just like them.

edit: I forgot, the only German brand I have seen mostly are Helios. Not all of their products are made in Germany and I just wasn't impressed.

 

[MaintenanceGuy]

Love my Mahr Federal, Starrett, B&S and Mitutoyo. They all work great. Really no big difference between them. The B&S is the least accurate, but most durable, it's also the oldest @ 15 years(these are digital calipers). As for old school mic's, I like the Starretts best.

 

[A_Pmech]

And it took a Swede to make them all jibe and march to the same drum.

Sadly, nobody got my humor.

 

[TheGrooveking]

The best micrometers are Etalon, then Brown & Sharpe / Starrett then mitutoyo.

TheGrooveking

 

[Steinmetz]

"...My favorite mic's are Lufkin, made in Saginaw Michigan. Haven't been made since the late 60's but I just like them…"


Amen.

 

[gigamel]

My old Helios micrometer feels better than my new digital Mitutoyo

 

[Tronyadorable]

Moore & Wright. Vernier. Dials and digits are for wussiess.

 

[MBfreak]

German micrometers are good. So is a bunch of other makes.

However, the Swedish C E Johansson ( Logo is CEJ) beats them all. CE Johansson was the first person who made top class shop standard blocks with accuracy of 1 micrometer. The CEJ company does not make handheld stuff anymore, all are systems for megabucks.

But if you stumble across micrometers , microcators ( "dial" gauges with 1 microm resoliútion) or standard blocks that are CEJ brand and not damaged, get them.

Sidenote. C E Johansson, the man , was one of the few persons who could go see Henry Ford at any time. The CEJ instruments were vital to the Ford mass production capability.

Ola

 

[Steinmetz]

Sadly, nobody got my humor.

Two did; Jo-blocks.

 

[TheGrooveking]

"...My favorite mic's are Lufkin, made in Saginaw Michigan. Haven't been made since the late 60's but I just like them…"


Amen.

+1,000,000 The only items I have from my maternal grandfather is a 0-1" and 1" - 2" Lufkin mics, they are sublime. My response was for what is still available.

TheGrooveking

 

[Fcvapor05]

My old Helios micrometer feels better than my new digital Mitutoyo

That's not two micrometers- that's a micrometer and a caliper.

Anyways.. 'Brand X is best, because Brand X was best 150 years ago".... you can't be serious.

 

[Dust Devil]

I find calipers far more useful.

 

[Carla]

And it took a Swede to make them all jibe and march to the same drum.

Concur,

I don't know whether there is any factual basis for the 'urban legend' that he adapted a treadle sewing machine to become his lapping rig for his original prototype set of blocks,
tho.

(there's more 'urban legend' about his negotiations with Henry Ford.....dunno whether factual or not, but interesting story.)

cheers

Carla

 

[ranger302]

still waiting for A_Pmech to make a micrometer with the same style and USA ness as "The Hammer"

 

[Carla]

Its one of the tragedies of our time, actually.......Brown & Sharpe now being just a 'trade name' for good quality Swiss-made inspection equipment........and, I can only wonder at what pressures might have been brought to bear on Doug Starrett, that there is now the Starrett name on 'joke tooling' made by the Chicoms.

(as for the 'original Starrett', Laroy Starrett himself......well, it might be a suitable courtesy for his family, or someone, to refit his grave with Timkens)

sadly

Carla

 

[William Payne]

Where I work nearly everybody uses mitutoyo, they are the preferred brand. Tesa is considered the top notch brand but mitutoyo is used by most including myself. One guy I work with uses starrett but it's old starrett, even he stays away from new starrett.