German pattern combination/ linesman pliers ( Kombizange)

[oldpliers1]

Hi All , I would like to share some Photos of my Black&Decker pliers I picked late last year , 8 inch 200 mm , German pattern head , Made in Germany sold in England,
price 20 US dollars delivered. They are a nice looking well made product.
I do not know their origin or Age . ( I gather they were made by a sub contractor to B&D ) does anyone know the story ? Seeing we are talking German pattern pliers it would be great to share with your German pattern photos and information.
I Know our American friends like the original English pattern linesman pliers , Here in Australia we use the channellock 3248 based of the crescent 3800 series and now Klein 12908 vde and marvel 880 , which all have the wrench between the jaws and blades .
hope to hear your comments and see your interesting pliers .
regards

 

[Dave455]

Hi Oldpliers.

Black and Decker had all manner of hand tools made for them and rebranded, mostly in the late 60’s / early 70’s as far as I can recall. Some of them were surprisingly good quality, but of course back then even their power tools were not bad.

As for the patterns, I don’t think there’s such a thing as an “English pattern” linemans plier. A linemans plier, by which I mean pliers with flat gripping surfaces and a cutter, are a peculiarly American tool. The oldest pair I have date from the 1930’s, and despite being sold in the U.K. are U.S. made.

I’m not sure if any British maker has ever offered linemans pliers, but I don’t think so. If they did, it’s still an American pattern.

The pliers generally available in the U.K. are “combination” pliers. These have a flat gripping surface, a semi circular gripping surface, then a cutter. These are a peculiarly British tool, almost unknown in the U.S. but there are exceptions!

Here are examples of each, both dating from the 1950’s that show the differences. U.S. Linemans on top, British Combination below.
Now, ”German pattern” combination pliers are similar again, but the “cutter” area is raised, as viewed from the side shown above. The pliers you show are very definitely “German pattern”, and I would have identified them as such. Some German makers have offered both styles.

 

[Orangina]

I knew these "Kombizange" pliers from the standard toolboxes of classic cars since the '50s - VW, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, ...
(but could be found in Hazet catalogs starting from 1938 as #130)
sometimes in cars without branding of the plier manufacturer - used to grip and cut off wires.

Standardization examples in DIN (ISO) 5746, specs in ISO 5743 and testing in ISO 5744.
Typical manufactures today are Hazet, Geodore, Stahlwille, Knippex and much more...

Your Black&Decker looks likes products of the '90s, because of the simple plastic handle.
Till the '80s these are typical without any plastic. Today multicolored and company signs etc.

 

[nadogail]

They remind me of the pliers that ere included with the new type 1 VW I purchased in 1970.

 

[oldpliers1]

Hi Oldpliers.

Black and Decker had all manner of hand tools made for them and rebranded, mostly in the late 60’s / early 70’s as far as I can recall. Some of them were surprisingly good quality, but of course back then even their power tools were not bad.

As for the patterns, I don’t think there’s such a thing as an “English pattern” linemans plier. A linemans plier, by which I mean pliers with flat gripping surfaces and a cutter, are a peculiarly American tool. The oldest pair I have date from the 1930’s, and despite being sold in the U.K. are U.S. made.

I’m not sure if any British maker has ever offered linemans pliers, but I don’t think so. If they did, it’s still an American pattern.

The pliers generally available in the U.K. are “combination” pliers. These have a flat gripping surface, a semi circular gripping surface, then a cutter. These are a peculiarly British tool, almost unknown in the U.S. but there are exceptions!

Here are examples of each, both dating from the 1950’s that show the differences. U.S. Linemans on top, British Combination below.
Now, ”German pattern” combination pliers are similar again, but the “cutter” area is raised, as viewed from the side shown above. The pliers you show are very definitely “German pattern”, and I would have identified them as such. Some German makers have offered both styles.

Thanks Dave , Here in Australia , we have always had a mix of product, I do have some crescent 1950 series and 50 series linesman pliers , I did read that Klein were the first to mass produce linesman pliers and the crescent above were inspired by the Klein design. I am including a photo of my Circa 1930 crescent combination pliers 3800 series , uninsulated , and a very nice tool . I have a added the photo from Klein catalogue ,mentioning New England head . I am not a expert ,just a humble tradesman of 40 plus years and a collector of tools and matchbox toys. Dave do you have much Wilkinson or Elliot Lucas in your collection? Regards Andy

 

[oldpliers1]

Here is another pair of German pattern pliers unknown maker
handles have a spike and screwdriver arrangement, pre ww2 possibly?

 

[Dave455]

Thanks Dave , Here in Australia , we have always had a mix of product, I do have some crescent 1950 series and 50 series linesman pliers , I did read that Klein were the first to mass produce linesman pliers and the crescent above were inspired by the Klein design. I am including a photo of my Circa 1930 crescent combination pliers 3800 series , uninsulated , and a very nice tool . I have a added the photo from Klein catalogue ,mentioning New England head . I am not a expert ,just a humble tradesman of 40 plus years and a collector of tools and matchbox toys. Dave do you have much Wilkinson or Elliot Lucas in your collection? Regards Andy

It’s pretty much the same here. Although traditionally, domestic makers were most common, just about anything was available depending on your tastes - British, American, Swedish, German, French, whatever?

Not surprised about Klein, but they are not a company that have ever had much of a presence in the U.K. New England obviously refers to that region of the U.S, not England U.K. Both the U.S. and U.K. developed a lot of regional patterns for hand tools.

Yes, I have both Wilkinson and Elliott Lucas, but I’m not really a collector, just a user with an interest. I inherited some of each from my Father and Grandfather. I also have some Elliott Lucas I bought myself, mostly in the 80’s, but by the 90’s the quality was dropping, although much old stock was available.

By the time I was buying, Wilkinson had been bought by Record. I have a few examples, and some of the patterns were beautifully made, though generally I preferred Elliott Lucas.

 

[oldpliers1]

Hi Dave thanks for your reply , Lucas & Elliott I have been collecting them on and off since my first trip to blighty in 83 ,
I do have a good range mostly mint in packet and box , the latter have the Neal tools branding . Mostly used by the English tradesman here , and all the high schools and tech colleges used Lucas Elliott , Marples record for everything .
But the other government departments used Sidchrome,and bergs ,. Regards Andy

 

[oldpliers1]

Here is another example of German / Sweden Europ pattern
they are EA Berg 597-7 with a screwdriver handle , I don’t know how to date them , so if you could please let me know .
they are exceptionally good quality as all berg tools are / as are the latter bahco / bergs .