Getting power to garage from a sub panel?

[piston farmer]

So I have 220 power from a 60amp breaker out to where a hot tub used to be. Wanted to know if i can go from that "sub-panel" to a panel in the detached garage since there is no more hot tub in that location and it is far closer to the garage. than the main panel.

 

[Zeke]

Sure, just make that box a junction box and wire from there. You can't maintain a receptacle in that box, or off that box, w/o a breaker rated for the receptacle. So the easy thing to do is empty out the box and run your wires on to the garage.

Others may have further things to say.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

How many wires are in that panel. You need two hots, a neutral, and a ground..... four wires. If the panel was strictly for the hot tub and it didn't need 120v and ONLY had 240v going to it, it probably does not have a neutral wire (white), in which case it won't do what you want to do.

Charles

 

[pattenp]

BINGO!

How many wires are in that panel. You need two hots, a neutral, and a ground..... four wires. If the panel was strictly for the hot tub and it didn't need 120v and ONLY had 240v going to it, it probably does not have a neutral wire (white), in which case it won't do what you want to do.

Charles

 

[Zeke]

I bet he could pull a 4th wire if needed.

 

[pattenp]

So.. just how much are you willing to bet?

I bet he could pull a 4th wire if needed.

 

[Zeke]

Well, unless he is trying to pull 3) 8 ga stranded and a #10 bare in a 3/4 conduit like me, I'll bet on him!

 

[pattenp]

I'm not sure he even has conduit. Bad luck will be whoever put in the hot tub circuit just used 6/2 cable to the hot tub panel.

 

[Zeke]

Well, I know from your posts that you know better than I. But the last hot tub panel I had my hands in was this big *** GFCI made for spas. I thought that needed the neutral and ground to work.

 

[pattenp]

Zeke, don't sell yourself short. You make a good point on the GFCI.

 

[piston farmer]

Well heres what is on the outside of my house,

View media item 19504
The wire is 6-3 with ground. however the ground is not attached to anything in the box at the moment.

View media item 19503

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I'm going to get in trouble here because I'm not a electrician but here goes.
make sure the bare ground is hooked up on the other end. Then install another ground bar in this box just like the one the white (neutral) is hook up two. they need to be separate in all the sub panels except at the main panel.
from there run your 4 wires out to the garage and install your sub panel, make sure you keep the neutral and ground separate in that panel also and if there is a jumper between the ground bar and nuetral bar in that new panel remove the jumper.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

So the panel you are showing us is fed by the house's main panel? and this is the one that used to supply the hot tub? and the wires we are seeing, are the ones FROM THE MAIN PANEL?

If the answers to the above are yes. then the statement below is correct.

'm going to get in trouble here because I'm not a electrician but here goes.
make sure the bare ground is hooked up on the other end. Then install another ground bar in this box just like the one the white (neutral) is hook up two. they need to be separate in all the sub panels except at the main panel.
from there run your 4 wires out to the garage and install your sub panel, make sure you keep the neutral and ground separate in that panel also and if there is a jumper between the ground bar and nuetral bar in that new panel remove the jumper.

Just make sure the ground and neutral are properly connected in the house's main panel. It could be that they both need to be connected to the same bar, if the house panel is the main disconnect. If the main disconnect is before the house panel, such as outside with the meter, then the neutral and ground connect to separate bars in the house panel.

Charles

 

[piston farmer]

Yes the wires your are seeing come from the main panel. So in this panel i need a seperate ground bar to keep neutral and ground seperate. Same in the garage. For this panel and the one in the garage should there be a grounding rod driven into the ground and attached to the "what will be the new ground bar in the box"?

 

[pattenp]

Well Piston Farmer you lucked out, you got what you need to run from there to your detached garage. If you have any other questions come on back to us.

 

[pattenp]

You don't need ground rods for the old hot tub box, but you do need to drive ground rods at the detached garage.

Oh and yeah you need ground bars and isolated neutral bars in both the boxes.

 

[piston farmer]

You don't need ground rods for the old hot tub box, but you do need to drive ground rods at the detached garage.

Oh and yeah you need ground bars in both the boxes.

Thank you! thats what i needed to know

 

[pattenp]

You should check your grounding at the house. A lot of older homes if using ground rods only have one and it's good to add a second rod. Your detached garage will need two rods and they should be driven into the earth at a minimum of 6 feet apart from each other connected to your sub-panel via #6 bare copper wire.

 

[piston farmer]

Yes the main house only has one ground bar. I can drive 2 for the garage no problem. So the ground in the old hot tub panel needs its own ground bar, which i will then attach the ground wire to for the new run of wire to the garage panel. and also attach the ground rods to the same ground bar in the new garage panel?

 

[pattenp]

You got it.

Oh when you said the house has one ground bar I assume you meant rod.

Yes the main house only has one ground bar. I can drive 2 for the garage no problem. So the ground in the old hot tub panel needs its own ground bar, which i will then attach the ground wire to for the new run of wire to the garage panel. and also attach the ground rods to the same ground bar in the new garage panel?

 

[piston farmer]

Yes that is correct, the house has one ground rod

 

[nehog]

... GFCI made for spas. I thought that needed the neutral and ground to work.

Actually no, not needed, a GFCI simply wants power balanced between the various wires that are going through the donut.

 

[pattenp]

What's not needed, a neutral? A 2 pole GFCI breaker monitors the current flow in the two ungrounded load conductors and the neutral conductor. There is a white pigtail on 2 pole GFCI breakers that connects to the neutral.

Actually no, not needed, a GFCI simply wants power balanced between the various wires that are going through the donut.

 

[Zeke]

Another ground buss in that panel? I was thinking if there are no devices in that panel or fed by that panel, simply wire nut the supply to the garage and bolt it shut. IOW, abandon the neutral buss and wire the old neutral to the new one. It becomes a j-box not a subpanel.

 

[Speedy Petey]

What's not needed, a neutral? A 2 pole GFCI breaker monitors the current flow in the two ungrounded load conductors and the neutral conductor. There is a white pigtail on 2 pole GFCI breakers that connects to the neutral.

Exactly.

A GFI breaker does NOT need a LOAD neutral to function, but it does need the LINE neutral connected to a valid neutral bar.