I have a detached garage ( not a dwelling structure ) with a 200 amp circuit breaker panel that is fed directly from the meter socket. Do I need to install any GFCI or AFCI circuit protection on any of the circuits inside the garage? Not sure NEC is too confusing!!!
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GFCI AFCI needed or not
- Thread starter jefflips
- Start date
ddawg16
Well-known member
To be more exact....GFCI's on any outlets at ground level....if you have a second floor, not needed (unless near water)
Ok...not trying to hijack...but when in an AFCI needed?
Ok...not trying to hijack...but when in an AFCI needed?
acer66
Well-known member
Last time I checked it was every outlet in a bedroom but that might have changed.Ok...not trying to hijack...but when in an AFCI needed?
Edit: The 2008 NEC requires the installation of combination-type AFCIs in all 15 and 20 ampere residential circuits with the exception of laundries, kitchens, bathrooms, garages and unfinished basements.
Last edited:
Ok...not trying to hijack...but when in an AFCI needed?
2008 code, everywhere a GFCI isn't
Rosco
Well-known member
Going through this now.........AFCI on any bedroom outlet. GFCI on kitchen outlets, bathroom outlets, garage outlets and exterior outlets. There are so many variables in the code, plus many other requirements. I have a requirement on my smoke detector for it to be on AFCI but "cannot" be on GFCI.
hillbilly1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 99
Going through this now.........AFCI on any bedroom outlet. GFCI on kitchen outlets, bathroom outlets, garage outlets and exterior outlets. There are so many variables in the code, plus many other requirements. I have a requirement on my smoke detector for it to be on AFCI but "cannot" be on GFCI.
Unless the manufacture says otherwise, a smoke detector can be on GFCI, it's just that smokes are in rooms that are required to have AFCI protection, if they are interconnected they may extend into rooms that do not require AFCI, but because they are in rooms that do require it, the entire circuit requires it.
Unless the manufacture says otherwise, a smoke detector can be on GFCI, it's just that smokes are in rooms that are required to have AFCI protection, if they are interconnected they may extend into rooms that do not require AFCI, but because they are in rooms that do require it, the entire circuit requires it.
Smokes are required by the NEC to be on a AFCI for the last few code cycles, since building codes require the smokes to be in the sleeping areas, smoke detectors are not a NEC requirement.
So where are regular old breakers acceptable?
IF nowhere, arent we just going to see electricians running too many outlets per breaker to keep costs down?
Panels sometimes come with ten 20 Amp breakers, thats not gonna happen with $40 AFCI breakers.
My building has 30 or so breakers in it, that would be $1200 in AFCI and GFCI breakers to replace. EEK!
IF nowhere, arent we just going to see electricians running too many outlets per breaker to keep costs down?
Panels sometimes come with ten 20 Amp breakers, thats not gonna happen with $40 AFCI breakers.
My building has 30 or so breakers in it, that would be $1200 in AFCI and GFCI breakers to replace. EEK!
Gooch
Well-known member
So where are regular old breakers acceptable?
IF nowhere, arent we just going to see electricians running too many outlets per breaker to keep costs down?
Panels sometimes come with ten 20 Amp breakers, thats not gonna happen with $40 AFCI breakers.
My building has 30 or so breakers in it, that would be $1200 in AFCI and GFCI breakers to replace. EEK!
dedicated circuits don't require AFI or GFI breakers. also, AFI requirements don't apply to commercial buildings.
So where are regular old breakers acceptable?!
GFCI outlets
Gooch
Well-known member
Who determines what is commercial and residential? If you live in an old factory with no occupancy permits required, what is it? Sorry to hijack.
the code has Dwellings and Non-Dwellings.
If someone lives in the space it's a dwelling.
EdT
Well-known member
You probably don't want your building to be "commercial" since, as I recall, the code there drives you to much more complexity and cost with or without afci/gfci. Price out some commercial switches and outlets compared to residential ones for example. Where I live, a building is either one or the other, there's no separate category for "it's not commercial, but I don't live in it so it's not residential either". As mentioned above, it depends a little on the local definition of "dwelling" which, apparently, may vary depending on where you live.
You probably don't want your building to be "commercial" since, as I recall, the code there drives you to much more complexity and cost with or without afci/gfci. Price out some commercial switches and outlets compared to residential ones for example. Where I live, a building is either one or the other, there's no separate category for "it's not commercial, but I don't live in it so it's not residential either". As mentioned above, it depends a little on the local definition of "dwelling" which, apparently, may vary depending on where you live.
dwelling and non-dwelling is pretty cut and dry (there are different categories of dwelling such as multifamily, highrise multifamily, etc). If you have a dwelling unit in a commercial building (for example store downstairs and apartment upstairs or la arge mixed use project with ground floor retail and condos above) the dwelling unit is treated as such as is the commercial space.