GFCI and refrigerators?

[Lucid Moments]

So I am in the process of getting my shop into working order, and one of the steps was to get a beer fridge in the shop. Bought a Frigidare model used off Craigslist. Seller had it on a trailer, but with a drop cord to it and it was running and cold. Took it to the shop and put some beer in it, and some ice in the freezer and all is good. Until I went back the next day and the beer is warm and the ice is melting. Found a popped gfci outlet on the circuit and it would not reset while the fridge was plugged in. Reset without the fridge and ran fine with other loads on it. Plug the fridge and it popped. Moved the fridge to another circuit and it ran for only a little while the popped the gfci and otherwise behaved similarly. This was last weekend so as a last resort to get cold beer I cranked up the generator (outside) which is not grounded. Fridge ran just fine for numerous hours on that.

Monday rolled around and called my local appliance repair guy that my parents did business with before I was old enough to and he informs me that refrigerators don't work well with GFCI outlets, and that if it ran fine on the generator there isn't anything he can do. I do as little electrical work as I can so I waited until the electrician that wired the house came by for other purposes and asked him. He was unfamiliar with the problem but knew my appliance guy so he changed the wiring on the one outlet so that it is not GFCI and the fridge has run fine since.

Shop is detached and from what I understand code considers it a "moist" environment and therefore all outlets are supposed to be GFCI. I think this may be one of those situations where code may go a little overboard, but in general believe there is a fair reason behind most codes and like to comply whenever possible.

I will, however, have a damn cold beer in my shop. So should I do something different, and if so what?

 

[nadogail]

I have read that the permissible leakage current from the refrigerators self defroster is greater than the nominal trip current for a GFCI.

For that reason, I recommend using a dedicated circuit with a single, not a duplex, receptacle. I locate them behind the refrigerator, and away from the other general service receptacles.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So I am in the process of getting my shop into working order, and one of the steps was to get a beer fridge in the shop. Bought a Frigidare model used off Craigslist. Seller had it on a trailer, but with a drop cord to it and it was running and cold. Took it to the shop and put some beer in it, and some ice in the freezer and all is good. Until I went back the next day and the beer is warm and the ice is melting. Found a popped gfci outlet on the circuit and it would not reset while the fridge was plugged in. Reset without the fridge and ran fine with other loads on it. Plug the fridge and it popped. Moved the fridge to another circuit and it ran for only a little while the popped the gfci and otherwise behaved similarly. This was last weekend so as a last resort to get cold beer I cranked up the generator (outside) which is not grounded. Fridge ran just fine for numerous hours on that.

Monday rolled around and called my local appliance repair guy that my parents did business with before I was old enough to and he informs me that refrigerators don't work well with GFCI outlets, and that if it ran fine on the generator there isn't anything he can do. I do as little electrical work as I can so I waited until the electrician that wired the house came by for other purposes and asked him. He was unfamiliar with the problem but knew my appliance guy so he changed the wiring on the one outlet so that it is not GFCI and the fridge has run fine since.

Shop is detached and from what I understand code considers it a "moist" environment and therefore all outlets are supposed to be GFCI. I think this may be one of those situations where code may go a little overboard, but in general believe there is a fair reason behind most codes and like to comply whenever possible.

I will, however, have a damn cold beer in my shop. So should I do something different, and if so what?

I would get another repairman.

Theres thousands maybe even millions of fridges that run just fine on GFCIs.

Whats going on here is the defroster bulb broke and is shorting to ground.

The GFCI did its job.

When a GFCI trips, its telling you something is wrong with the equipment.

I have read that the permissible leakage current from the refrigerators self defroster is greater than the nominal trip current for a GFCI.

For that reason, I recommend using a dedicated circuit with a single, not a duplex, receptacle. I locate them behind the refrigerator, and away from the other general service receptacles.

Incorrect.

An NRTL/nationally recognized testing laboratory would not list a product or appliance that has leakage current in excess of 5ma.

Whats going on here is the defrost bulb broke and is shorting to ground.

There are numerous threads about this on this very group.

 

[James-W]

I have a Kenmore refrigerator in my garage that is on a GFCI and I have never had a problem with it tripping the GFCI. Actually, I am not a big fan of Kenmore but I got the refrigerator for free so I probably shouldn't complain too much. I do, however, have a high intensity shop light that trips the GFCI. Well, I shouldn't say it that way, I don't have it anymore, I threw it away, but I used to have one.

 

[Norcal]

If a appliance trips a GFCI, then there is a problem with the appliance, the GFCI is doing what it was designed for.

 

[Showkey]

There must be 40 other threads and 1000 posts on the topic.

Nuisance Tripping........( aka ghost trips) is a real thing, appears in many locations, with many devices, refrigerator and freezers are very common on the list. Yes there are usually reasons for the trips.

Google ........GFCI Nuisance Tripping........for a week of causal reading.

 

[Milton Shaw]

One other cause for tripping GCFI's on refrigerators is the wiring at the bottom of the doors/cabinet. I have seen condensation from inside the refrigerator coming out of the plastic conduit the wiring it is in. I have had several burn out the connectors at the bottom of the frig. This is behind the toekick grill and you can see them when you remove the toekick. The condensation comes from air movement when the door is open/closed and air refills the case. I have had to cut conduit off plug and then seal the wires in the cabinet with RTV to keep the plugs dry. I have also seen shorts in the 5 volt control wiring to the doors for the same reason that burned out the control boards. 40 years ago refrigerators came with an air bleed behind the vegetable drawer for that make up air to enter, now that air enters through wiring conduits and dispenser switches and causes problems with freezer door filling with ice etc..

 

[dcg9381]

FYI - I've just installed a GFI circuit (on the breaker) - ran a 10 year old refigerator AND a kegerator no problem.

 

[slimpickins]

There must be 40 other threads and 1000 posts on the topic.

Nuisance Tripping........( aka ghost trips) is a real thing, appears in many locations, with many devices, refrigerator and freezers are very common on the list. Yes there are usually reasons for the trips.

Google ........GFCI Nuisance Tripping........for a week of causal reading.

^^This!
I have a newer window AC unit with a GFCI built into the plug. One day it just started tripping and would not stay on. I took the plug apart and it was practically dripping inside. Moisture had migrated through the 6 ft power cord to the plug and was collecting there. There must have been just enough cold air flow through the cord to cause condensation inside the plug. After letting the plug dry out disassembled for a few days, I reassembled it and ran the AC for a day then opened the plug again. Sure enough there was a bit of moisture in the plug again, but not as much as the first time. Note that the plug is approximately even with the bottom of the window A/C unit. It would probably be worse if it was "downhill" from the A/C to the plug.

My solution, until I take the unit apart in the fall to clean it, was to drill two small holes in the plug in a safe position where even if you stuck a paper clip or other metal object in the hole, it could not contact any electrical parts. This lets the moisture escape from the plug and I haven't had a problem since. No water comes out the holes, and I've taken the plug apart again and it's completely dry. When I take it apart to clean it in the fall, I'm going to try to seal the end of the power cord in the A/C unit to prevent air leakage. Not sure if I'll replace the wire, or just try to dry it out somehow, or not do anything as it seems to be working fine now.

The moral of the story is to check the wiring boxes on the fridge for any moisture buildup. My garage is a LOT more humid than my house, and this would be the first thing I check.

Here's my "modified" GFCI plug.

View media item 96642
Cheers!

 

[Lucid Moments]

The flip side is that the fridge is now no longer plugged into a gfci outlet and has given no further issues.

 

[slimpickins]

Whether it's condensation or something else, you haven't fixed the problem. If condensation is forming in the wiring box for your fridge, it could be a problem in the future, particularly if you get enough condensation to allow sufficient current to flow to the fridge chassis, and then something happens and your fridge is not properly grounded.

As has been said, the GFCI was doing it's job. You've bypassed a safety to to "fix" a problem. When your buddy goes to open the fridge to get a beer and .... are you going to say "Ooops!!"?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

^^This!
I have a newer window AC unit with a GFCI built into the plug. One day it just started tripping and would not stay on. I took the plug apart and it was practically dripping inside. Moisture had migrated through the 6 ft power cord to the plug and was collecting there. There must have been just enough cold air flow through the cord to cause condensation inside the plug. After letting the plug dry out disassembled for a few days, I reassembled it and ran the AC for a day then opened the plug again. Sure enough there was a bit of moisture in the plug again, but not as much as the first time. Note that the plug is approximately even with the bottom of the window A/C unit. It would probably be worse if it was "downhill" from the A/C to the plug.

My solution, until I take the unit apart in the fall to clean it, was to drill two small holes in the plug in a safe position where even if you stuck a paper clip or other metal object in the hole, it could not contact any electrical parts. This lets the moisture escape from the plug and I haven't had a problem since. No water comes out the holes, and I've taken the plug apart again and it's completely dry. When I take it apart to clean it in the fall, I'm going to try to seal the end of the power cord in the A/C unit to prevent air leakage. Not sure if I'll replace the wire, or just try to dry it out somehow, or not do anything as it seems to be working fine now.

The moral of the story is to check the wiring boxes on the fridge for any moisture buildup. My garage is a LOT more humid than my house, and this would be the first thing I check.

Here's my "modified" GFCI plug.

View media item 96642
Cheers!

Hate to break it to you but that is NOT a GFCI on the plug. It is an LCDI- leakage current detection and interruption. Similar to an AFCI

It will not protect the user from electric shock which is what a GFCI is for.

Read the label on the plug.

 

[checkthisout]

My experience with lots of different freezers/fridges is they pop the GFCI, even when new. Same with engine block heaters.

It always happens that it can go several weeks/months with no problem then all of a sudden you lose $100.00 of dollars worth of meat or whatever because the thing pops. You reset it and again it's fine for a long time until its not and your engine is too cold to start.

Yes, maybe the appliance is leaking current but diagnosing the issue can be impossible. No issue on a regular outlet....

 

[teamextreme]

Hate to break it to you but that is NOT a GFCI on the plug. It is an LCDI- leakage current detection and interruption. Similar to an AFCI

It will not protect the user from electric shock which is what a GFCI is for.

Read the label on the plug.

Wouldn't "leakage" imply it's doing the same thing as a GFCI? AFCI detects arcs, looking for goofy sine-waves. Nothing is "leaking". I've never heard of an LCDI, I'll have to do some googling.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wouldn't "leakage" imply it's doing the same thing as a GFCI? AFCI detects arcs, looking for goofy sine-waves. Nothing is "leaking". I've never heard of an LCDI, I'll have to do some googling.

Its a different animal because an LCDI does not detect leakage anywhere except in the cord.

If current is leaking somewhere on the chasis, motor etc it will not trip.

The cords have a wire mesh braid wrapped around them under the outer rubber insulation. If the cord is damaged to the point that current leaks from hot or neutral to the wire mesh, the LCDI will trip.

Someone could still be shocked if say the motor shorts to the enclosure and the AC unit is not propery grounded(read AC plugged into 2-wire outlet with ground cheater adapter)