Here goes; Just installing a new GFCI Square D home-line 20 amp single pole breaker. Read the instructions carefully. White wire in proper spot on the breaker, black wire in the proper spot on the breaker, bare ground wire to ground bar, white coiled wire attached to neutral bar and flip the breaker to on and it trips. Remove the bare ground from ground bar and holds fine. Instructions do not mentions the bare ground wire. Could someone give me some direction? Thanks Foamer
GFCI Breaker tripping (New)
- Thread starter foamer01
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Gooch
Well-known member
Sounds to me like the ground and neutral are bonded together somewhere in that circuit.
Is this a new circuit you ran or are you converting an existing circuit?
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This is a new circuit, direct bury out to a pool. Seems to be pretty straight forward. So just so I am clear, I should be able to attach the bare ground to the ground bar and have this work properly? Or am I suppose to attach the bare wire to the ground bar? Thanks.
justsam
Well-known member
Not sure why your GFCI breaker has a bare ground wire. I just installed two GFCI breakers in my Siemens panel, type QP breakers, and there was no bare ground wire. Just a hot lead, neutral in and neutral out.
GFCIs don't look for stray current on the bare ground lead, they only look to see if current through the neutral is equal to current through the hot lead. Just don't see where bare or green ground comes into play.
GFCIs don't look for stray current on the bare ground lead, they only look to see if current through the neutral is equal to current through the hot lead. Just don't see where bare or green ground comes into play.
Yea it sounds like you are not feeding your hot and your neutral to your circuit from the breaker. The white coiled wire goes to the neutral bus and the other wire might feed your neutral on your circuit to your pool.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/65/650cb774-ca6c-42fd-82b7-5c52dee3996d.pdf
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/65/650cb774-ca6c-42fd-82b7-5c52dee3996d.pdf
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
To everyone confused about the bare/ground wire, I think te OP is referring to the EGC for the circuit.
Agreed!! +1 Sounds like current is flowing on an alternate path via the ground wire since the breaker doesnt trip with the ground wire removed from the buss!!
Agreed!! +1 Sounds like current is flowing on an alternate path via the ground wire since the breaker doesnt trip with the ground wire removed from the buss!!
justsam
Well-known member
I was confused. I thought the OP was suggesting there was an ECG, bare ground wire coming out of the new GFCI breaker.
It does sound like the breaker is installed correctly. Remove any loads from the circuit, remove circuit wires from panel. Measure resistance from ground bare wire to neutral, should be open. Agree with others, you have a ground to neutral short somewhere in the circuit.
It does sound like the breaker is installed correctly. Remove any loads from the circuit, remove circuit wires from panel. Measure resistance from ground bare wire to neutral, should be open. Agree with others, you have a ground to neutral short somewhere in the circuit.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
Bare wire to the ground bar. What are you using to make the run,pvc or uf wire. What outlet are you using,and is the pump plugged in when the gfi trips. Did you open the outlet up and pull everything out and then try the breaker. You may just have a nick in the wire hitting the side of box
Dugan
Well-known member
Uh what? Only your black wire should be attached to the breaker, white goes to neutral bar.
BillK
Well-known member
A picture would help tremendously.
rockwithjason
Well-known member
not on a gfci breaker. the breaker will have an additional lug for the neutral of that circuit to land to and a white pig tail that goes to the neutral bar.
Gooch
Well-known member
Replace the Gfci receptale with a standard one.
I don't want to sound like my kid and no disrespect to you, but why? Trust me I am no electrician just wanting to learn. Thanks
Duck tape Bill
Well-known member
Is that a GFCI outlet? Why do you have both a GFCI outlet & breaker? And why is there electrical tape wrapped around the neutral wire in the box just above the sheathing? if you cut into the neutral wire maybe that's the problem?
Duck tape Bill
Well-known member
There's no need to have both a GFCI receptacle & breaker; http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=401096&mode=linear#post401096
Replace the receptacle (check the wiring there since it's the only thing we can't see in the pictures) with a normal 20A.... at least that's what I would do.
Replace the receptacle (check the wiring there since it's the only thing we can't see in the pictures) with a normal 20A.... at least that's what I would do.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
Yeah no point in having a gfi outlet and breaker, but in the gfi outlet box check to see if the ground wire is against the neutral when you pushed the outlet in which is common
justsam
Well-known member
Are there other gfi devices fed from this panel that are operating properly? I see no other gfi breakers, but are there gfi outlets working properly?
Is this a main or sub panel?
As others have pointed out, gfi breaker OR gfi outlet. Not both!
Is this a main or sub panel?
As others have pointed out, gfi breaker OR gfi outlet. Not both!
Gooch
Well-known member
because you have it protected at the source, no need to protect it at the point of use. Also since the GFCI receptacle monitors between the neutral and ground, that can cause upstream GFCI's to trip. try this and report back. also make sure that the ground and neutral are not touching in the outlet box.
pattenp
Well-known member
You don't need both the GFCI breaker and outlet, but if the cable is buried shallow at 12" or so, then the GFCI breaker is required for protecting the circuit from the source. This applies to buried 120V, 20A or less circuits. See NEC 300.5. It's best to keep the breaker and dump the outlet.
sberry
Banned
Monitors between the ungrounded conductor and the grounded one.
Why spend the extra $ for a 20A? If a 20A attachment plug is required the circuit would need to be dedicated, 15A is fine, while not germane to this discussion a 15A is rated for 20A feed through to other receptacles.
Update: Ground and Neutral were not touching in the box. Taking the advice, I removed the GFCI outlet and replaced it with a regular 20amp outlet. With the bare ground once again in the ground bar it is holding and tested just fine. Coming from a layman it just seemed like two safety's (breaker & GFCI) were better than one, though in this case I guess not. Thank you very much for taking time to read the post and advise. Foamer
AP514
Well-known member
Good ...............it worked out for you.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
No a GFCI monitors current flow between the hot and neutral conductor.
The point is, 2 GFCIs on the same circuit are redundant and is a waste of money. Plus, as u have learned, they can cause issues such as nuissance trips. What extra safety do u think your gaining by having 2 GFCIs? The response time isnt increased....what else could u gain? I think if u knew how they functioned, then u would understand why 2 GFCIs arent better than 1....
Gooch
Well-known member
yea I realized I worded it wrong.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Thats what the edit button is for....