GFCI/Garage Question

[expatriated]

I want to install 4 new outlets in my garage and put them on their own circuit (I have a couple of spaces in my panel). Since this is a garage, I have read that GFCI outlets are preferred and may be mandatory. So, I was planning on going with them. However, I then read that each GFCI outlet should be on its own circuit. Is this right? I don't have four spaces in my panel and I'm not sure I would want to take up 4 of them just for 4 outlets.

What do you guys say?

If it matters, I'm in Indiana and it's an attached garage approx 10 years old. The outlets will be used for power tools (chop saw, circular saw, shop vac, shop lights, those sorts of things.)

Would regular outlets work just fine?

Thanks!

 

[Norcal]

GFCI's are required for outbuildings & garages, they are cheap & reliable enough that there is no reason to try to avoid using them.

 

[porschedude996TT]

I think you are reading something into this that is not true. You don't need a separate circuit breaker for each GFCI receptacle. You can make a string of outlets off the single breaker. You can string several outlets after the GFCI without any problem. I have two 120v 20 amp circuits in my shop for convenience outlets; each circuit has the GFCI first in line and then 11 normal 20 receptacles after it. Make sure you use the "Load" terminals from the GFCI for the downstream outlets.

Another way is to use a GFCI Breaker and then any receptacle after that would be protected.

I wouldn't add anything other than the receptacles on each of your receptacle circuits like lighting.

I argee with Norcal, there is no reason not to use them, they could save your life...

 

[bondsman]

Just like porschedude said. Get you a GFCI outlet. That will be your first outlet in your run. Hook the power from the breaker in the box to the "line" side (the side that is not taped with the caution lable). Then remove the caution lable, which is on the "load" side. and run your first regular outlet off of that, then just connect your next outlet to the last and so on. The GFCI breakers are expensive...

 

[bradleys]

All the outlets in my garage are connected to GFCI breakers. I think GFCI of some kind is required out here in Washington state (NEC 2008). We have four breakers that service eighteen outlets (one on each pole). The actual outlets are simply spec grade standard fifteen amp outlets. There's a little GFCI sticker on each outlet box.

 

[Falcon67]

Just like porschedude said. Get you a GFCI outlet. That will be your first outlet in your run. Hook the power from the breaker in the box to the "line" side (the side that is not taped with the caution lable). Then remove the caution lable, which is on the "load" side. and run your first regular outlet off of that, then just connect your next outlet to the last and so on. The GFCI breakers are expensive...

I have four runs of wall outlets, wired just like that. First plug in a run is GFCI. Just don't make your "first plug in the run" end up behind some 1000 lb piece of equipment, in case you have to change out the GFCI someday.

PS - I have run everything off the GFCI circuits - drill presses, grinders, welder, vacuum, etc, etc - and never had a false trip issue with any of it.

 

[Nostraquedeo]

I think you are reading something into this that is not true. You don't need a separate circuit breaker for each GFCI receptacle. You can make a string of outlets off the single breaker. You can string several outlets after the GFCI without any problem. I have two 120v 20 amp circuits in my shop for convenience outlets; each circuit has the GFCI first in line and then 11 normal 20 receptacles after it. Make sure you use the "Load" terminals from the GFCI for the downstream outlets.

Another way is to use a GFCI Breaker and then any receptacle after that would be protected.

I wouldn't add anything other than the receptacles on each of your receptacle circuits like lighting.

I argee with Norcal, there is no reason not to use them, they could save your life...

This is how I would do it too. I wouldn't put 12 outlets on one circuit though. If you calculate them at 180va per outlet, you would be at 2160va on a 20 amp circuit. I typically do not exceed 8 outlets on a 20 amp circuit when I don't know the intended loads.

 

[expatriated]

Just to be clear, I AM planning on using GFCI's, I was just confused about why each one needed to be on a separate circuit breaker but now that that has been cleared up, I'm good to go.

Can you guys explain why you put regular outlets after the initial gfci outlet? Versus making all the outlets gfci? Is this not possible?

 

[nate379]

They are all protected by the first one. You could put them all GFCI outlets if you wanted to but that would be a waste at $20/each versus $1 for a normal outlet.

I wouldn't bother with a GFCI in the garage. When was the last time you were showering with a toaster nearby in there? I had them in mine and after I smoked 3 GFCI outlets in less than a year with my compressor I put a normal outlet.

 

[twostory]

I wouldn't bother with a GFCI in the garage. When was the last time you were showering with a toaster nearby in there?

It is code where I live that all garage outlets be GFCI.

I once got the s#it shocked out of me with a drop light on a wet concrete drive way. I could not move to get out of the puddle. Had this been a GFCI, it would have tripped and no shock.

 

[Jason641]

Just to be clear, I AM planning on using GFCI's, I was just confused about why each one needed to be on a separate circuit breaker but now that that has been cleared up, I'm good to go.

Can you guys explain why you put regular outlets after the initial gfci outlet? Versus making all the outlets gfci? Is this not possible?

As many have said, all of the outlets 'downstream' from the GFCI are protected by that initial GFCI, as long as you hook them to the "Load" side of the GFCI. if you have something plugged into one of the downstream outlets and it falls in water it will trip that first GFCI outlet, and you will have push the Reset button on the GFCI outlet. There is absolutely no need for more than one GFCI in the circuit.

 

[expatriated]

Thanks very much, guys. I think I have it all squared away now.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Don't forget to locate the GFCIs where they are easily accessible - if the circuit pops you don't want to have to pull out a toolbox or something to get to the reset button.

 

[Brandon_K]

I would recommend a GFI breaker versus a receptacle (if the panel is in the shop..)

This allows you to use good quality, heavy duty outlets instead of having to deal with the cheap *** GFI outlets. Granted, you can use a single GFI outlet with heavy duty outlets down the line. I just like everything being in the panel, no searching around for the damn test and reset buttons.

 

[shovel]

I would recommend a GFI breaker versus a receptacle (if the panel is in the shop..)

This allows you to use good quality, heavy duty outlets instead of having to deal with the cheap *** GFI outlets. Granted, you can use a single GFI outlet with heavy duty outlets down the line. I just like everything being in the panel, no searching around for the damn test and reset buttons.

Yeah, what he said.... I prefer the GFCI breakers also. For me, they are easier to see when there is a problem.

 

[nate379]

Code here too, but I wasn't going to feed GFCI outlets to the garage like it was a fat girl with twinkies.

The arc fault breakers they have on bedrooms are touchy too. I was working in my bathroom last week and pulled a light fixture down. The switch was off. When I pulled the wiring through the metal backplate it "shorted" and tripped the breaker.
Not sure how since it was off so no juice was in the line.

It is code where I live that all garage outlets be GFCI.

I once got the s#it shocked out of me with a drop light on a wet concrete drive way. I could not move to get out of the puddle. Had this been a GFCI, it would have tripped and no shock.

 

[osu69]

GFI outlets don't last forever. I've replaced a number over the years and now prefer GFI breakers. A GFI breaker costs about twice the price of an outlet and lasts far longer.

 

[shamrock12]

GFCI outlets are cheap and usually problematic especially during the summer when they get fried by lightnings or power surges. Can't remember how many I've had replaced them. GFCI breakers last much longer and I'm yet to see one go bad because of that.

 

[6768rogues]

GFCI breakers handle motor loads better than the receptacle type. For hand power tools it doesn't make much difference. With stationary tools (drill press, compressor, etc.) you might find that your receptacle GFCI trips too much where a breaker type won't.

 

[dmeadow]

What symptoms tell you the GFCI outlet needs replacement? Does it trip unnecessarily or is there something else to look for?

 

[ixlr8]

What symptoms tell you the GFCI outlet needs replacement? Does it trip unnecessarily or is there something else to look for?

I have only had one GFCI outlet go bad, it tripped and I could not reset it. No power in circuit until I replaced it.

 

[Tom McDermott]

GFCI breaker requirements have been updated by UL over the years..

In 2003 many of the problems with nuisance trips and radio suseptability were fixed.

In 2006 they were updated so that if you accidentally wired up the line and load sides backwards, then the GFCI would trip. You had to wire it correctly for it to supply any power to any load and not instantly trip.

Look for "Meets the requirements of UL2006" or some similar marking on the GFCI outlets, and save yourself some aggravation.

-- Tom

 

[Privatejoker]

As many have said, all of the outlets 'downstream' from the GFCI are protected by that initial GFCI, as long as you hook them to the "Load" side of the GFCI. if you have something plugged into one of the downstream outlets and it falls in water it will trip that first GFCI outlet, and you will have push the Reset button on the GFCI outlet. There is absolutely no need for more than one GFCI in the circuit.

That makes sense, but does it meet code?

 

[oleguy]

yes it does.generaly you should limit down stream outlets to 6.

 

[sawin]

What about 240V outlets? Is there a "safety" type?

I use 240 for a splitter and a conveyor belt, both outdoors. I also run some power tools 240 in the shop.