GFCI Question

[James-W]

A buddy of mine has a 15 amp circuit for an outlet in his bathroom. Not sure why the circuit is 15 amp, but it has 14 gauge wire and a 15 amp circuit breaker, so that's what it is. Anyway, the outlet is close to the sink so he wants to remove the regular outlet and install a GFCI outlet. Someone where he works gave him a new GFCI rated for 20 amps. I think he can use the it on the 15 amp circuit, or am I sadly mistaken?

 

[Terry D]

A duplex receptacle is considered as multiple receptacles ... Only 15 amp multiple receptacles are permitted on a 15 amp circuit. If it was a single 20 amp receptacle and it was the only receptacle on the circuit, it would be ok

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Does the GFCI have T-slots? if so then it cant be used on the 15a circuit

a 15a receptacle can however be used on a 20a circuit

 

[James-W]

Does the GFCI have T-slots? if so then it cant be used on the 20a circuit

a 15a receptacle can however be used on a 20a circuit

I have no idea if it has T-Slots, I will have to ask him tomorrow.

This is confusing to me though. What I mean is, the GFCI senses current leakage and if there is any leakage then it will trip. So basically, whatever amount of current being drawn on the hot side of the line, must be returned to the neutral side. If the two sides of the line do not match, then it shuts itself down. I was under the impression that although the GFCI outlet is capable of handling 20 amps, the 15 amp circuit breaker will trip if more than 15 amps are being drawn.

In any case, I will ask about the T-Slots and if it has them I will tell him that he will have to get a 15 amp GFCI for his bathroom and not use this one.

 

[Shiftless]

Does the GFCI have T-slots? if so then it cant be used on the 20a circuit

a 15a receptacle can however be used on a 20a circuit

whyliesdiesels:
Didn’t you mean to say the the T shaped slotted receptacles can’t be used on the 15 amp circuit?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

whyliesdiesels:
Didn’t you mean to say the the T shaped slotted receptacles can’t be used on the 15 amp circuit?

Yeah whoops that was a typo

 

[Meursault74]

I think one question is, will it function and protect/shut off in the case of ground fault. yes.

Will it be "code" or prevent someone from plugging in a cord for 20A device on a 15A circuit
no.

Please correct me if I am mistaken as I think this is what is really being asked.

 

[TractorJeff]

I would bet there are hundreds of them installed in Bathrooms across the US because that's what the COVID Handy Husband picked up at the Box Store!
And they still run the Wife's Hair Dryer and Tooth Brush just fine!

 

[Terry D]

I have no idea if it has T-Slots, I will have to ask him tomorrow.

This is confusing to me though. What I mean is, the GFCI senses current leakage and if there is any leakage then it will trip. So basically, whatever amount of current being drawn on the hot side of the line, must be returned to the neutral side. If the two sides of the line do not match, then it shuts itself down. I was under the impression that although the GFCI outlet is capable of handling 20 amps, the 15 amp circuit breaker will trip if more than 15 amps are being drawn.

In any case, I will ask about the T-Slots and if it has them I will tell him that he will have to get a 15 amp GFCI for his bathroom and not use this one.

You are correct how a GFCI works. Around 5ma difference between the black and white, and the GFCI trips.

This is a violation of the NEC that I fully dont understand. If it was a dedicated 15 amp circuit and it was a single 20 amp receptacle, then it would be ok. The single receptacle has to be rated for at least the size of the circuit.

But per the NEC, A duplex receptacle is two receptacles. Now the rules change. When you have two or more receptacles on a 15 amp circuit, the rating of the receptacles can not be larger than 15 amps. You will find this in 210.21(B)(3) which refers you to table 210.21(B)(3) of the NEC.

I cant see how it would be a circuit overloading issue, as far as plugging a 20 amp load into it and taking the breaker up to and past its limit, because you can easily do that with a single receptacle. So maybe with multiple 20 amp receptacles on a 15 amp circuit, you could really overload it. And depending on the tripping curve of the breaker, it could take that extra current for a bit until tripping.

Your not going to see a whole lot of equipment in a home with a 120 volt 20 amp plug on it, especially in a bathroom. But the NEC doesnt limit the location of the receptacle(s) for this rule. It can be anywhere

So I guess what Im trying to say, It is a violation of the NEC to put that 20 amp duplex receptacle on that 15 amp circuit, but will something bad happen with this particular installation, probably not.

 

[Pntyrmvr]

Doesn't everyone wish they could drag the big 20 amp pressure washer up from the garage into the bathroom, pre-soak every surface, and blast it all down a central floor drain?

No scrubbing.

 

[Shiftless]

Doesn't everyone wish they could drag the big 20 amp pressure washer up from the garage into the bathroom, pre-soak every surface, and blast it all down a central floor drain?

No scrubbing.

Yeah!
I had fantasies of doing something like that. When our kids were small and eating in high chairs, it would have been great to have the breakfast area fully tiled with a floor drain and a short hose handy to rinse everything down into a drain, maybe with a garbage disposer.

 

[Pntyrmvr]

Or plumb the pressure washer with quick disconnects in various rooms. Just bring up the wand and have at it.

 

[Shiftless]

Or plumb the pressure washer with quick disconnects in various rooms. Just bring up the wand and have at it.

Don’t use the zero degree tip while bathing children.
But it would be great for wash downs on toilets.

 

[nh_yota]

How many people actually have something with a 20a 120v plug on it? I sure don't.

 

[Wrench97]

How many people actually have something with a 20a 120v plug on it? I sure don't.

Last thing I remember seeing was a old window A/C unit.

 

[nh_yota]

Last thing I remember seeing was a old window A/C unit.

The only thing I have seen them on is rackmount PDUs in data centers.

 

[Pntyrmvr]

Don’t use the zero degree tip while bathing children.
But it would be great for wash downs on toilets.

That’s where I got the idea. I worked in a full serve gas station as a kid and I couldn’t stand being the rookie who had to clean the washroom.

I noticed the floor drain, rolled the steam Jenny around, used every air line I could find, soaked the place in tile cleaner right up the walls and had at ‘er. Toilet shot the water right back at me, but is was clean. Cloud of steam made me prop the door open.

Boss was so impressed he made keep doing it regardless of my seniority. Damn bright idea.


“Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.”

 

[KenC]

How many people actually have something with a 20a 120v plug on it? I sure don't.

My MIG welder. Only one I've seen like that, older Century, pre-Lincoln.

 

[Pntyrmvr]

My 100 amp stick welder. Hardware store brand from the early 80’s.


“Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.”

 

[Shiftless]

Back when I was teaching, the school custodians had a floor machine with a 20A plug.

There is probably an espresso machine somewhere with a 120 volt 20A plug.

I agree...as code violations go, putting that 20A GFCI receptacle onto a 15 amp circuit in a bathroom is technically not right but not a big problem.

 

[James-W]

Back when I was teaching, the school custodians had a floor machine with a 20A plug.

There is probably an espresso machine somewhere with a 120 volt 20A plug.

I agree...as code violations go, putting that 20A GFCI receptacle onto a 15 amp circuit in a bathroom is technically not right but not a big problem.

I already told him to buy a 15 amp GFCI and he said he will pick one up today after work. I doubt he will call me to install it, he is more than capable of doing it himself.

Thanks to everyone for your assistance on this, I appreciate the help. I am sure my buddy appreciates it too.

 

[ttpete]

That’s where I got the idea. I worked in a full serve gas station as a kid and I couldn’t stand being the rookie who had to clean the washroom.

I noticed the floor drain, rolled the steam Jenny around, used every air line I could find, soaked the place in tile cleaner right up the walls and had at ‘er. Toilet shot the water right back at me, but is was clean. Cloud of steam made me prop the door open.

Boss was so impressed he made keep doing it regardless of my seniority. Damn bright idea.


“Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.”

Years ago, a friend owned a gas station, and he paid a local homeless guy to clean the toilets. He allowed the guy to spend his nights there in one of them. I think the ladies' side was a bit larger.

 

[Shiftless]

Deleted

 

[dcg9381]

I agree...as code violations go, putting that 20A GFCI receptacle onto a 15 amp circuit in a bathroom is technically not right but not a big problem.

But is it a code violation? I hate to use the "make sense" bar when it comes to NEC, but I see no reason why a 20A outlet can't work on a 15A circuit (with appropriate breaker). Ground fault is ground fault, 15A or 20A.

I stand to be educated...

 

[Terry D]

But is it a code violation? I hate to use the "make sense" bar when it comes to NEC, but I see no reason why a 20A outlet can't work on a 15A circuit (with appropriate breaker). Ground fault is ground fault, 15A or 20A.

I stand to be educated...

Read post #9

 

[wyliesdiesels]

But is it a code violation? I hate to use the "make sense" bar when it comes to NEC, but I see no reason why a 20A outlet can't work on a 15A circuit (with appropriate breaker). Ground fault is ground fault, 15A or 20A.

I stand to be educated...

yes it is a code violation to put a 20a outlet on a 15a circuit

 

[TRWham]

While there might also be one or more 15 A circuits, according to code there should be at least one 20 A branch circuit serving receptacles in the bathroom(s). And, yes, that could be only one circuit serving all bathrooms.

 

[dscheidt]

Back when I was teaching, the school custodians had a floor machine with a 20A plug.

There is probably an espresso machine somewhere with a 120 volt 20A plug.

I agree...as code violations go, putting that 20A GFCI receptacle onto a 15 amp circuit in a bathroom is technically not right but not a big problem.

I used to have a commercial model blender with one.

some 5-20P use is not because the appliance requires it, but you want to restrict where you plug it in. can't plug the floor machine in a classroom, because they're all 5-15R, have to use the hall outlets, which are 5-20R, even though all the circuits are on 20A breakers.