You only need a 20a receptacle if the circuit only has a single receptacle. A duplex covers this, so the reality is that unless you are plugging in a 20a appliance, the 20a receptacle is unnecessary
Huh? Worse case scenario, you make all your splices behind the LINE connections, and don't remove the yellow tape covering the LOAD terminals. That still protects whatever is plugged into the outlet, even if not the downstream wiring.
The laundry room has two outlets. They are both now protected as one is the GFCI and the other is downstream of that one. One runs the laundry machines and the other is by the sink. If I connected that other neutral, it would trip the outlet. I'm not sure what they did exactly in the 1960's but that other neutral is from an outlet in another room. Guess they didn't want to pull it all the way to the panel and just attached it to that outlet and its neutral. That downstream outlet also had another neutral attached to it from another outlet in another room. I forgot about that one. That outlet isn't needed either.
Are you sure you sure you don't have two circuits sharing a neutral. when you turn off power to the laundry room receptacles, do the ones in the other room go dead also.
If you're pulling a permit, then you're obliged to meet the local adopted Code edition.
I believe the circuits are sharing neutrals. The hots are on different breakers.
I think you need two gfci's in the laundry room, one in each location. Connect everything to the line side of both, the "extra" neutrals included, forget the load side and your other two outlets will start working. If it were mine, I wouldn't have a gfci in the laundry room at all (I don't), but if my wife got on me about it because of some **** she saw on a home improvement show, I might consider one at the sink, but forget about the washing machine. That one would be easy, just connect everything to the line side of the gfci at the sink, you will have protection there, but nowhere else on the circuit and the other two recept's will magically start working again.
Thanks for the reply as well as @Terry D . I'll think about trying that. I know the box where the machines are plugged into is fairly tight. I likely need to extend the box out if I use pig tails.
You can probably throw a wiremold box on the washer receptacle. The regular starter boxes don't work very well for gfci's though. There is a little tab on the mounting plate that the gfi will hit when you go to install it. I've cut that tab off with tin snips before, but it's easier to just use something else. Check the other single gang wiremold boxes. Some, though not all, will have a punch out on the back plate that will match up to the existing box.
I love the fact that Iowa deleted 250 volt receptacles from the gfci protection. It started out as being delayed because the manufactures couldn't supply the breakers, but promised they would be readily available by Jan. 1, 2022. That didn't happen, so the Eboard gave them a big F U.Georgia's on the 2020 NEC so the rule is in effect
Thanks for the advice. I'll visit this project in the future.
Those are the boxes. In the bottom picture you can see the tab that the gfci will hit. The box in the top pic doesn't have the punch out that matches up to the existing box. In a pinch, I've purchased two different boxes. One like the bottom to get the starter plate, and another, deeper box. The deeper box allowed the gfci to fit in all the way before it hit that effing tab. And, as I stated above, I've also taken the tin snips to the tab. The tab is actually there for a place to put a grounding screw, but I didn't care.Thanks for the advice. I'll visit this project in the future.
I was thinking of something like this, but your boxes would look better and provide more room for sure.
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I'll definitely look into the boxes you suggested and see what will work with that 1960's metal box. Is this what you're suggesting?
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Thanks. I watched part of the video on the HD website to get a better idea of how those boxes/bases go together. From the specs, I think that starter box will give plenty extra space for the pigtailing needed. I'll cut/grind that grounding screw tab off to make things fit. Dremel rotary tool to the rescue
.The boxes in my house are metal and the ground is bonded when I screw in the outlets anyway, so I won't use that tab either. Thanks again for the advice.Shop around. Modern low profile GFCIs can be found that hardly take up more space than an outlet. And with two wires allowed under the clamps, you might not need to pigtail so much.
The versions with clamp plates that take two wires are very handy in this situation and much easier than bending wires for the screws heads. I paid only a little more for them than the cheaper, lower quality ones and thought it was well worth it.
You do not want to use the two wires under the screws in this situation, where he has two circuits sharing the neutral. If for some reason, he were to lose the connection on the neutral, there is a good chance that 240 volts will be sent through 120 volt equipment.
I have one of the low profile GFCI in there now and it's tight. There are other wires in there.
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying or maybe my suggestion is a bad idea, I'm not sure at this point... What I was suggesting is rather than have to put a wire nut and pig tail in the back of the box so the wires only attach to the line side of the GFCI use a GFCI that has a clamp plate (not sure how else to describe it) for the wires to do the same thing. The wires do not go UNDER the screw heads. Some may say that a wire nut is better but these style of wire clamps are very secure. They look somewhat like back stab but rather than rely on a spring the screw pulls a plate, clamping the wires. They provide two holes for each screw so 1 or two wires can be used.
The manufacture date is usually on the device, even if it is a code rather than what looks like a date. The same is true for most wire and cable that you might buy. So if there is an accident and someone is trying to link it to a code violation, it may be possible to prove the violation.
what you describe (pressure plate) is found on all GFCIs. at least all the GFCIs ive bought in the last 5yrs
That could be. As far as the choice of wire termination I guess I was thinking of regular receptacles and had a choice.
I know exactly what you are stating and it's a bad idea. It's not a good idea when it's a normal circuit, and it's a horrible idea when it's a mwbc. If the gfci quits, how is anyone supposed to know the correct breaker is off unless every breaker gets turned off? I'm the guy that going to pull the gfi out without turning off any breakers, it's hard to use a meter on a dead circuit. Say one of the wires isn't landed perfectly. If I pull that gfi out hot and a neutral pulls out, something might let the smoke out.
If it's behind the washing machine, why bother? Nobody's going to see it. Some of those boxes are a real *****. They have a bracket that goes across the face of the stud. Other times, there were two 16d nails through the box which isn't so bad, but by the time the box comes out, there isn't enough wall left for the ears of an old work box to grab. You wind up screwing a plastic box to the stud or risk pushing the whole thing through the wall when installing the device. Being in the laundry, there might be something behind the existing box which will keep a deeper box from fitting.
thats correct
www.garagejournal.com
Pigtails are always a better, more secure connection with less chance of failure. The people that don't use them either 1) don't care, 2) don't know any better (it works doesn't it? and since I did it, there's no way it's going to be a bad connection, right?), 3) are too lazy to pigtail, 4) are too cheap for a wire nut, or wago for that matter, or 5) think that since it's a code approved method that it must be ok. I will admit that it's easier and I have been known to put two wires under the pressure plate, but every time I've done it, it's been in a commercial install using stranded wire and it's been from one duplex to another for a quadplex receptacle. There's no way I would feed through a box using them.
Wow, been almost a year. I got around to this today. I bought one of those wiremold boxes and a second GFCI outlet for the sink. I did have to cut off a little of the grounding tab on the wiremold box to allow the GFCI to fit, but left enough to connect a grounding wire with a screw to the receptacle. The box I bought seems to have some type of coating on the outer portion, it seemed to insulate a bit so I wanted to use a grounding wire as well instead of just relying on the screws going into the box.
Looks like you get around home projects about as fast as I do. Unless it's something I want, then it's top priority.Wow, been almost a year. I got around to this today. I bought one of those wiremold boxes and a second GFCI outlet for the sink. I did have to cut off a little of the grounding tab on the wiremold box to allow the GFCI to fit, but left enough to connect a grounding wire with a screw to the receptacle. The box I bought seems to have some type of coating on the outer portion, it seemed to insulate a bit so I wanted to use a grounding wire as well instead of just relying on the screws going into the box.
Came across the box and an odd color GFCI for the sink outlet for cheap on ebay. The color works fine I suppose. I don't care as it's in the laundry room.
I pigtailed everything as you suggested and now all the receptacles work throughout the house. As I was going through the other receptacles, I found 2 that were just dual polarized prong, but the metal boxes are grounded so I swapped those out to grounded outlets. I also found one outlet that the neutral and hot were switched. We never noticed as I think only a lamp was plugged in at one time. That wasn't anything I had done, but I fixed it.
Thank you for the advice @sparky 1971 , it most certainly helped me complete this project up and have everything work.
Yeah, I know this other outlet/plate are a little weird color-wise, but the outlet is Pass & Seymour UL listed TR etc in Antique Brass. I didn't even try to find a plate to match.