#%$^&*@!!! GFI keeps popping

[rubberrodder]

My gfi outlet on my garage lighting keeps popping off when it's hot outside. As in above 80 degrees. At first I thought it was just a bad gfi unit. So, I put in a new one. No problems...til it hit 85 degrees! POP. Leave it off for 10 - 15 minutes, reset, and it's okay until I turn on or off anything, even on separate cerquiets. Like the power surge is tripping it. SO, I put in another gfi unit. This time I stepped up to a 20 amp gfi instead of the 15 amp units I was using. SAME @#$#@^%&&*** thing at 85 degrees! My shop lights on that line only draw a total of 10 amps for all 4 lights. WTF is going on? Btw, the 20 amp breaker on the panel has never tripped. Only the gfi. Any ideas? I'm losing what little mind I have left!

 

[Mustang51js]

Prob a ballast going bad,I wouldn't have the lights on a gfi anyway,just the outlets

 

[MoonRise]

Hot and humid conditions possibly causing a voltage 'leak', which the GFCI dutifully detects and trips.

Check for loose connections or terminals and possible corrosion.

 

[JimDon]

Have anything else on that circuit like a garage refrigerator maybe?
They'll do nuisance tripping of GFCIs.
Any other motor driven devices on it? Fans? etc. Can be similar results.
Cheers,
JimDon

 

[HOTFR8]

A +1 for not having them on the lights. You need them on power points only. You may have an issue with lights taking out the GFI. Took my Electrician ages to work that out.

 

[Norcal]

Have anything else on that circuit like a garage refrigerator maybe?
They'll do nuisance tripping of GFCIs.
Any other motor driven devices on it? Fans? etc. Can be similar results.
Cheers,
JimDon

If a appliance is tripping a GFCI the appliance is defective, & the GFCI is doing it's job.

 

[Rob_b]

I'd say disconnect everything after the GFI and see if the same thing happens.

 

[cybrdyke]

Electronic ballasts or drivers have a certain amount of leakage current. It can easily trip GFI's.
CD

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My gfi outlet on my garage lighting keeps popping off when it's hot outside. As in above 80 degrees. At first I thought it was just a bad gfi unit. So, I put in a new one. No problems...til it hit 85 degrees! POP. Leave it off for 10 - 15 minutes, reset, and it's okay until I turn on or off anything, even on separate cerquiets. Like the power surge is tripping it. SO, I put in another gfi unit. This time I stepped up to a 20 amp gfi instead of the 15 amp units I was using. SAME @#$#@^%&&*** thing at 85 degrees! My shop lights on that line only draw a total of 10 amps for all 4 lights. WTF is going on? Btw, the 20 amp breaker on the panel has never tripped. Only the gfi. Any ideas? I'm losing what little mind I have left!

contrary to popular belief, GFCIs dont trip because of overcurrents...

 

[rubberrodder]

All my shop lights were purchased together and are the same. They all all have a standard 5 ft. cord and plug. I ran the outlets for them as I ran all the other outlets. The city inspector said to meet code, I needed to put a gfi in the first outlet box. Just like the other outlets on the walls. One gfi, to protect the circuit, and three out lets down line from there.
I will be checking for bad ballasts and other "issues" over the weekend. We shall see what happens.

 

[rubberrodder]

Okay! No corrosion, no loose connections, found one ballast that worked, but made a humming noise. I unplugged it and turned on the rest of the lights. No problem, Till I turned on a different light that wasn't even on the same circuit. POP! And out went the lights. This is seems to be temperature related. It only does it if the temp is over 80 degrees. It did it maybe 3-4 times last summer. Not at all over the winter. And is doing it regularly since this summer here has been hotter than usual. W.T.F ?

 

[rubberrodder]

Besides ******* me off, What the hell does a GFI do AND HOW does it work? If I actually knew more about them it might help solve my "issues". { I hope.}

 

[Mustang51js]

It detects the current coming in on neutral and hot,if there's a big difference then it trips. If you must have them on a gfi then I would replace your outlets the lights are plugged into with gfi and put all the wires on the line side,if one trips after that it will help to figure out which light it is. If it was me,the lights wouldn't be on a gfi at all

 

[Mustang51js]

Okay! No corrosion, no loose connections, found one ballast that worked, but made a humming noise. I unplugged it and turned on the rest of the lights. No problem, Till I turned on a different light that wasn't even on the same circuit. POP! And out went the lights. This is seems to be temperature related. It only does it if the temp is over 80 degrees. It did it maybe 3-4 times last summer. Not at all over the winter. And is doing it regularly since this summer here has been hotter than usual. W.T.F ?

You may have a shared neutral with another circuit

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It detects the current coming in on neutral and hot,if there's a big difference then it trips. If you must have them on a gfi then I would replace your outlets the lights are plugged into with gfi and put all the wires on the line side,if one trips after that it will help to figure out which light it is. If it was me,the lights wouldn't be on a gfi at all

As u know all outlets in a garage are required to be GCCI protected including those for lights and garage door openers.

I agree about not having lights on a GFCI protected circuit. The only way to have lights on a non-GFCI protected circuit is to hardwire them.

You may have a shared neutral with another circuit

Agreed. The breaker shouldnt be tripping because of activity on another circuit.

 

[Mr. T]

Your gfci is telling you that current is leaking somewhere. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Find the offending device/fault and fix the leakage. Or don't; your house, your call/safety.

 

[barnjunkie]

I had a similar issue in my shop. It took me a while to trace it down, but I had to basically start at the first receptacle and disconnect the rest of them one at a time until the tripping started again. I found one screw that pierced a neutral wire in a handy box.

So it looks like the Afci will also detect a current difference between neutral and ground?
Yours will probably not be straight forward because of the lights, but start at the first appliance and work your way to the end of the circuit and you might get lucky.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I had a similar issue in my shop. It took me a while to trace it down, but I had to basically start at the first receptacle and disconnect the rest of them one at a time until the tripping started again. I found one screw that pierced a neutral wire in a handy box.

So it looks like the Afci will also detect a current difference between neutral and ground?
Yours will probably not be straight forward because of the lights, but start at the first appliance and work your way to the end of the circuit and you might get lucky.

huh? The OP has an issue with a GFCI not an AFCI...and no GFCIs and AFCIs dont measure current between neutral and ground....under notmal operation there shouldnt even be current on an EGC...

If u have an AFCI, and a pierced neutral wire, then of course the AFCI will trip because of arcing at the broken neutral wire...but thats a different subject...

 

[barnjunkie]

It flashed a code that said "current has found and alternate path to ground". Afciand gfci are in combination on Eaton ch br stuff. I don't even think you can get a gfci breaker anymore for Eaton panels.

 

[rubberrodder]

You may have a shared neutral with another circuit

The lights have their own separate circuit breaker{20 amp},and wiring. Nothing else on that line. All the neutrals to the silver colored screws on the outlets, all the hots to the brass colored screws, all the grounds to green. Just like the directions in packages said to do. When they have been on for a while, I can turn them off,go outside, remember something in the garage, go back in and turn on the switch...POP! Followed by profanity. A friend of mine is a commercial electrician and he's stumped too! It's most likely something too damn obvious to see.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It flashed a code that said "current has found and alternate path to ground". Afciand gfci are in combination on Eaton ch br stuff. I don't even think you can get a gfci breaker anymore for Eaton panels.

That just means that current has found an alternate path back to the source via ground because the current on the hot and neutral leg doesnt match. Its not measuring current on the ground.

And yes u can get a GFCI breaker for eaton panels.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ers/CHCircuitBreakers/CHGroundFault/index.htm

 

[barnjunkie]

That just means that current has found an alternate path back to the source via ground because the current on the hot and neutral leg doesnt match. Its not measuring current on the ground.

And yes u can get a GFCI breaker for eaton panels.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ers/CHCircuitBreakers/CHGroundFault/index.htm

The OP is looking for suggestions on how to troubleshoot his false trip problem and you have not offered any suggestions other that to question my knowledge on the operation of the device.
I'm not an expert on gfci's, I was trying to help the op. If you are such an expert on these devices, it seems you would try to assist the op in finding his issue, unless you are just here to post your worthless opinions.

 

[barnjunkie]

contrary to popular belief, GFCIs dont trip because of overcurrents...

Huh? Of course gfci's breakers will detect over current conditions, why would they be produced with different amperage ratings????

 

[barnjunkie]

So what is the solution OP? Did you solve the problem?

 

[Norcal]

Huh? Of course gfci's breakers will detect over current conditions, why would they be produced with different amperage ratings????

Because of the load, the same reason different ampere ratings for receptacles, THEY DO NOT TRIP ON OVERCURRENT CONDITIONS, that is what the circuit breaker is for, the circuitry is measuring the difference between the hot and neutral conductors, if leakage exceeds 6mA it trips.

 

[DC73]

If you are such an expert on these devices, it seems you would try to assist the op in finding his issue, unless you are just here to post your worthless opinions.

His opinions aren't worthless. He is one of the most knowledgeable electrical gurus on the forum.

As Norcal said, the GFCI portion of a GFCI breaker has nothing to do with tripping on over-current. GFCI stands for (say it with me slowly) Ground . . . Fault . . . Circuit . . . Interrupter. It interrupts the circuit when there is a ground fault which it determines by monitoring the difference in current between the hot and the neutral. In short (pun), it's electrocution protection, not over-current protection.

DC

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Huh? Of course gfci's breakers will detect over current conditions, why would they be produced with different amperage ratings????

Sorry, very wrong on this. The ONLY thing a GFCI does is compare the current coming in on the hot and out on the neutral (and since its AC, coming in on the neutral and out on the hot) and if the two do not AGREE, it assumes that some of the current escaped after it left the contacts of the receptacle and is finding its way to ground (possibly via person). Something like 6 ma differential will trip the GFCI. It has NOTHING to do with measuring circuit current (amps), that is the job of the breaker in the panel.

Both 15 and 20 amp GFCI receptacles will carry 20 amps. The downstream output on both of them is rated for 20 amps. The ONLY difference is in the shape of the slots where the plug goes.

Charles