GFI outlet problem?

[Booze Hound]

Hi all-
I have a GFI outlet that I cannot get to reset. I have unplugged everything I can identify as being on that circuit and still can't get it to reset. I haven't gotten too far along in my diagnosis just yet as I discovered this after being out of town for the weekend and arriving home last night to find this issue.

Any thoughts here? Is failure of the socket likely?

I checked the breakers and none were tripped but the GFI was tripped.

Thanks for suggestions / troubleshooting advice.

 

[Gary S]

Is there power to the circuit? Most brands of GFI outlets need power to reset.

 

[pattenp]

If you believe there is no offending device plugged in causing the trip then the odds are the GFCI outlet is defective. GFCI outlets do go bad.

 

[Booze Hound]

Is there power to the circuit? Most brands of GFI outlets need power to reset.

When I try to reset it seems to hold for about one or two seconds then trips, so I think there is power but not certain. I will check it out though.

I had 2 refrigerators plugged into an outlet on this circuit but had unplugged them and still won't hold. Seems like something is tripping it. Went out of town for the weekend and all was well. Came home and have issues.

 

[Booze Hound]

If you believe there is no offending device plugged in causing the trip then the odds are the GFCI outlet is defective. GFCI outlets do go bad.

Is there a way to check if the outlet is bad, other than to change it out?

Thanks

 

[pattenp]

Is there a way to check if the outlet is bad, other than to change it out?

Thanks

Not that I know of. The outlets are not very expensive so change it out. If the problem still exist then you know for sure you have a problem elsewhere. You can always return the new outlet.

 

[pacmktg]

I just had to replace one for the same reason. $15 and ten minutes later and job done.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is there a way to check if the outlet is bad, other than to change it out?

Thanks

There's no way I know of to check if a GFI is good but u could use an inductive voltage tester to see if the wires feeding the GFI are getting power!

 

[ishiboo]

Is there a way to check if the outlet is bad, other than to change it out?

Thanks

Yes, there is.

Those test/reset buttons are not just for show, they are actually for testing... and resetting... the device! And they're actually the only approved way of testing GFI outlets. You do need to first verify there is nothing else on the circuit.

So, the GFI has already told you that either there's something wrong down the line, or it's shot. As pattenp said, they do fail and they are required to fail tripped, so it's probably time to replace.

 

[ishiboo]

There's no way I know of to check if a GFI is good

Lol!

 

[Falcon67]

That (tester with button) or the "hard" way - pull the outlet, disconnect the load side wires, power up the circuit, protect yourself and reset the GFCI. If it stays on, the problem is downstream. If not you are halfway through the replacement work!

 

[madosta]

If you wire them backwards and test them, they won't reset.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes, there is.

Those test/reset buttons are not just for show, they are actually for testing... and resetting... the device! And they're actually the only approved way of testing GFI outlets. You do need to first verify there is nothing else on the circuit.

So, the GFI has already told you that either there's something wrong down the line, or it's shot. As pattenp said, they do fail and they are required to fail tripped, so it's probably time to replace.

There's a 3rd option u didn't mention- that the GFI is not getting power. There could be a break in the wire upstream of the GFI or a bad connection on a backstab connected outlet.(I've seen that before) The reset button won't work if the GFI isn't getting power! Thus the reason I mentioned using an inductive voltage tester!

Lol!

What I should've said so I don't get flamed is "there's no way I know of to check if a GFI is good, other than the obvious!

 

[rlitman]

That (tester with button) or the "hard" way - pull the outlet, disconnect the load side wires, power up the circuit, protect yourself and reset the GFCI. If it stays on, the problem is downstream. If not you are halfway through the replacement work!

This is the best answer here.

If you wire them backwards and test them, they won't reset.

True, but only for the newest types. Older GFI's did not care about reversed wiring.

 

[crucible]

It sounds like you have an outlet problem here...like was already said, they do go bad and I just replaced one recently myself.

That said, I wanted to also add that some GFCI's don't seem to like loads like refridgerators on them-I had the same issue on my garage fridge where it would trip the GFCI outlet without fail...just not right away.

I researched it and found I was far from the only one (look yourself too); moving to a non-GFCI source took care of it.

 

[Booze Hound]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions but here is something I didn't expect.

just prior to pulling the outlet to replace it I figured I'd reset once again just to test it and whatta you know.........it holds and doesn't trip. So I leave all as is and will keep an eye on this.

Anybody seen this happen before? Can a GFI outlet get weak or something similar but still function? As noted earlier I had 2 refrigerators on this circuit (which I am sure the GFI didn't like) but now just one is plugged into this circuit.

I know the right thing to do was replace but it's late, it's cold and I'm lazy.

 

[domain]

If 120 vac is present and GFI ill not reset, Replace with new.

 

[MWelectric]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions but here is something I didn't expect.

just prior to pulling the outlet to replace it I figured I'd reset once again just to test it and whatta you know.........it holds and doesn't trip. So I leave all as is and will keep an eye on this.

Anybody seen this happen before? Can a GFI outlet get weak or something similar but still function? As noted earlier I had 2 refrigerators on this circuit (which I am sure the GFI didn't like) but now just one is plugged into this circuit.

I know the right thing to do was replace but it's late, it's cold and I'm lazy.

Gfci's are pretty temperamental by desighn. It only takes 4-6 mili amps to trip a perfectly functioning gfi receptacle. It sounds like you do have a minor problem somewhere along the line. It would probably be fine to do what you have and wait for futher evidence of it being defective. Obviously you dont want to plug in 2 freezers full of meats and hope for the best though.

 

[yuk]

i couldnt get my bathroon one reset last week.
the breaker needed reset. after resetting the breaker the gfi reset like it should.

 

[G_P]

I would rather spend a few bucks and replace the outlet rather than lose a fridge full of food.

Sent from my C5120 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I would rather spend a few bucks and replace the outlet rather than lose a fridge full of food.

Sent from my C5120 using Tapatalk 2

I've always been told that a Fridge or Freezer is to NEVER be hooked up toa GFCI for that reason...My fridge has its own dedicated Recep which is not GFCI...

 

[Zeke]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions but here is something I didn't expect.

just prior to pulling the outlet to replace it I figured I'd reset once again just to test it and whatta you know.........it holds and doesn't trip. So I leave all as is and will keep an eye on this.

Anybody seen this happen before? Can a GFI outlet get weak or something similar but still function? As noted earlier I had 2 refrigerators on this circuit (which I am sure the GFI didn't like) but now just one is plugged into this circuit.

I know the right thing to do was replace but it's late, it's cold and I'm lazy.

Tap in ahead of the GFCI and install a single receptacle for the fridge. Not a duplex unless you plan on leaving something else permanently plugged in that duplex along with the fridge. The GFCI shouldn't be behind the fridge in case it is. I don't know that there's a code on that, but it just makes sense.

Perdectly OK to have a single receptacle for the fridge behind the fridge. Or in view, either way.

 

[ishiboo]

2008+ requires a refrigerator outlet be GFCI protected in the garage. It is not specifically called out as a requirement - it just requires ALL outlets (including GDO) to be GFCI protected and I am not aware of any exceptions.

Some municipalities may have exceptions for dedicated outlets.

The fact that the outlet was self-tripping with no load, and it suddenly worked once and you are continuing to store food on it is your own mistake. It is past the point where you should have replaced that receptacle with a new GFCI.

 

[Zeke]

Then put it up above 7'. That is unless garage door openers now have to be on a GFCI.

 

[ishiboo]

Then put it up above 7'. That is unless garage door openers now have to be on a GFCI.

As I said, ALL outlets in the garage need to be GFCI in the 2008+ cycle. I even said the garage door opener specifically!

 

[ishiboo]

BTW... as silly as it sounds, the NEC considers the future. The next gearhead who moves in will plug a cordreel in to your ceiling GDO receptacle, get rid of the stupid refrigerator in the garage and move it to the basement and put his tool bench there with a nice power receptacle, and now there are two unprotected shock risks in an often moist environment.

As much as there are silly additions to the NEC, I think this change made sense. And modern appliances should not leak enough to cause a nuisance trip, and GFCIs are quite reliable.

 

[Zeke]

I give up. I will never build a house given the 2011 NEC. Or the 2008 either.

I'm only being silly, but a cord can be thrown out of a window or run through a door. Might as well put GFCI protection on any outlet with 20' of the exterior walls.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I give up. I will never build a house given the 2011 NEC. Or the 2008 either.

I'm only being silly, but a cord can be thrown out of a window or run through a door. Might as well put GFCI protection on any outlet with 20' of the exterior walls.

I feel like you....Luckily it doesnt bother me... and if I ever got dinged about it, I'd seriously just convert everything I own over to 220v instead of installing GFCI's in my garage....Make a couple cheater extension cords so I can run the few power tools off some stragetically placed L14-20 outlets...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions but here is something I didn't expect.

just prior to pulling the outlet to replace it I figured I'd reset once again just to test it and whatta you know.........it holds and doesn't trip. So I leave all as is and will keep an eye on this.

Anybody seen this happen before? Can a GFI outlet get weak or something similar but still function? As noted earlier I had 2 refrigerators on this circuit (which I am sure the GFI didn't like) but now just one is plugged into this circuit.

I know the right thing to do was replace but it's late, it's cold and I'm lazy.

That was possibly your clue right there. Sounds like that fridge u moved to another circuit might have been the culprit! There was another thread on GJ a month or so back, where the member had the exact same problem as u. It turned out to be the defrost bulb in the freezer causing the GFI to trip!

.......The fact that the outlet was self-tripping with no load, and it suddenly worked once and you are continuing to store food on it is your own mistake. It is past the point where you should have replaced that receptacle with a new GFCI.

Did u miss the OPs comment(which I quoted above) a few comments back about moving one of the fridges to a different circuit?

 

[Falcon67]

I give up. I will never build a house given the 2011 NEC. Or the 2008 either.

I'm only being silly, but a cord can be thrown out of a window or run through a door. Might as well put GFCI protection on any outlet with 20' of the exterior walls.

You could hire whatever electrical contractor wired our house (built 2001). Code - what code. No GFCIs in the garage, only one outside outlet GFCI protected, copper ground wire used as switch leg wiring, outlets with no or loose safety ground because the copper was looped the wrong way and slipped out of the ground screw - quite an array of misses.

I agree - I'd plug a fridge that held food (or a freezer) into a standard outlet and if it was a garage with a GFCI, I'd change it. It's not worth the $$$$ of lost food and the next guy damn well needs to get an inspection before purchase. The shop fridge is on a GFCI, but the loss of 12 can drinks is acceptable. NOT THE BEER!

 

[Booze Hound]

Thanks for all of the input / suggestions. I will keep an eye on it and most likely replace it soon. House built in '96 and it prob wouldn't hurt to change that receptacle out for a new one.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You could hire whatever electrical contractor wired our house (built 2001). Code - what code. No GFCIs in the garage, only one outside outlet GFCI protected, copper ground wire used as switch leg wiring, outlets with no or loose safety ground because the copper was looped the wrong way and slipped out of the ground screw - quite an array of misses.

I agree - I'd plug a fridge that held food (or a freezer) into a standard outlet and if it was a garage with a GFCI, I'd change it. It's not worth the $$$$ of lost food and the next guy damn well needs to get an inspection before purchase. The shop fridge is on a GFCI, but the loss of 12 can drinks is acceptable. NOT THE BEER!

Gotta say- I've never seen a bonehead do that one before!

 

[Falcon67]

Gotta say- I've never seen a bonehead do that one before!

And this was in the master bath. I almost fell off the ladder when I figured out what they did. I only found it because we painted the bathroom and when I put the fixture back, I wired it back like I'd expect and it didn't work. Started tracing wires and Ended up re-fishing everything in bath wall.

This was also the second house we looked at in the neighborhood that didn't have a ground at the service entrance. No UFER, rods - nothing.

 

[jeffahart]

Gas dryers is the ticket. Where I live everyone uses gas dryers. But they still wire for the electric dryer. That gives two legs(220) for a 30amp sub panel for your garage. Depending where the laundry room is located, mine is next to my garage. Then you just pull the panel and stuff the wires back trough the wall and rehook for the dryer when you sale the house.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

And this was in the master bath. I almost fell off the ladder when I figured out what they did. I only found it because we painted the bathroom and when I put the fixture back, I wired it back like I'd expect and it didn't work. Started tracing wires and Ended up re-fishing everything in bath wall.

This was also the second house we looked at in the neighborhood that didn't have a ground at the service entrance. No UFER, rods - nothing.

WoW! That sparky needs to be fired and have his license yanked but I'm willing to bet $ that he didn't have a license. The thing is, I've seen non licensed sparkies do better work than some licensed guys! (I'm not licensed) So a license actually doesn't mean squat!

The thing with rods is a gray area IMHO. Yes, they're required by code and they're needed for lightning and surge suppression but there's many houses that don't have 'em and have never had any problems. So, yes every house should have one but it is most likely not detrimental without one. I have a client that had a studio which had no ground rods for 80yrs and never had an issue.....

Gas dryers is the ticket. Where I live everyone uses gas dryers. But they still wire for the electric dryer. That gives two legs(220) for a 30amp sub panel for your garage. Depending where the laundry room is located, mine is next to my garage. Then you just pull the panel and stuff the wires back trough the wall and rehook for the dryer when you sale the house.

Ummm....I think you posted to the wrong thread!