Ghostshield 8505 Vs. 8510

[Armorpoxy]

Hi All,

As a Ghostshield Distributor we often get asked the difference between the 8505 and the newer 8510, so please see below.

8510 = 100% Actives……….. 8505 = 40% Actives

Both products have the oleophobic “fluorocarbon” which is essentially a Teflon however because of the water vs. solvent carrier we are able to really beef up the fluorocarbon in the solvent 8510. With the water based 8505 it can handle only so much of the fluorocarbon in the mix then the viscosity starts to change, the fluid starts to gel and now you lose your ability for the product to absorb well. With the 8510 the solvent has a higher acceptance of the fluorocarbon therefore we are able to add more of it into the formulation.
Because of the 8510’s added fluorocarbon strength along with it being a solvent (getting better penetration than water) we find the 8510 has a much higher resistance to any oils and such vs. the 8505.

There really are no differences in each product with the exception the 8510 is really the 8505 on steroids ! There also is not that much of a price difference/sq ft between the two. The 8505 costs less/sq ft but covers less/gal so the net difference is maybe 10 cents/ sq ft.

In either case, make sure to use the 4500 Densifer which should be applied, then wait about a week for it to 'work' with the concrete, then apply the sealer. If you don't use the 4500 which is inexpensive, you will use much more of the more expensive sealer so the 4500 Densifer not only works better but it saves money!

Unfortunately since we don't make the Ghostshield no GJ discounts are available on this product line.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Nice post. We are seeing about 400 Sq. Ft or better on the 8510. My only issue, and you are straight off their specs, so its not with you, the idea of calling anything that is solvent based (or water based) 100% actives....

Also folks need to remember chemical resistant sprayers with the 8510

 

[Feffman]

......Also folks need to remember chemical resistant sprayers with the 8510

Justin:

Any suggestions for a pump-type chemical resistant sprayer for use with the 8510?

Feff

 

[Garage Flooring]

I believe this is what I used http://www.homedepot.com/p/ECHO-3-Gal-Sprayer-MS-300/204631876

 

[jakea333]

I just applied the 8510 from Justin with a TL37 base (diluted half and half with water) and can confirm I saw exceptional coverage. I bought 3 gallons for ~400 sq ft and only really needed about 2 gallons (2 coats). I had so much extra I used it on a covered patio I didn't originally intend to coat at all. Without the densifier base, it required noticeably more product. This wasn't a concern as I still had extra, but the densifier base is cheap and certainly increases the coverage in my experience.

I used this sprayer from Northern because I live right nearby and just picked up what was convenient, but had no trouble. http://northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200641802_200641802?adv=false

I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives that would work fine.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Hi,
The sprayers our Install Division uses are these...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q3UE0W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[GRivera]

Hi All,

As a Ghostshield Distributor we often get asked the difference between the 8505 and the newer 8510, so please see below.

8510 = 100% Actives……….. 8505 = 40% Actives

Both products have the oleophobic “fluorocarbon” which is essentially a Teflon however because of the water vs. solvent carrier we are able to really beef up the fluorocarbon in the solvent 8510. With the water based 8505 it can handle only so much of the fluorocarbon in the mix then the viscosity starts to change, the fluid starts to gel and now you lose your ability for the product to absorb well. With the 8510 the solvent has a higher acceptance of the fluorocarbon therefore we are able to add more of it into the formulation.
Because of the 8510’s added fluorocarbon strength along with it being a solvent (getting better penetration than water) we find the 8510 has a much higher resistance to any oils and such vs. the 8505.

There really are no differences in each product with the exception the 8510 is really the 8505 on steroids ! There also is not that much of a price difference/sq ft between the two. The 8505 costs less/sq ft but covers less/gal so the net difference is maybe 10 cents/ sq ft.

In either case, make sure to use the 4500 Densifer which should be applied, then wait about a week for it to 'work' with the concrete, then apply the sealer. If you don't use the 4500 which is inexpensive, you will use much more of the more expensive sealer so the 4500 Densifer not only works better but it saves money!

Unfortunately since we don't make the Ghostshield no GJ discounts are available on this product line.

This sounds like what I need but I'm trying to figure out how much I need to buy?

I have 1200 sf of smooth trowed inside the garage and 1500 sf broom finished outside of it. Am I right to think 15 gallons of GS 8510 and 3 gallons of GS 4500 concentrate?

Is the TL37 a better densifier than the GS 4500?

 

[RPH]

My groomed concrete absorbed much more of the densifier than the smooth concrete inside. I would add extra for the rough stuff.

 

[GRivera]

How much more did you need?

 

[jkeyser14]

My groomed concrete absorbed much more of the densifier than the smooth concrete inside. I would add extra for the rough stuff.

Same experience here. On broomed finished concrete I only got around 200 sq ft. of coverage for the intial coat, that was after the 4500 densifier too.

 

[RPH]

Don’t remember the quantity as it was the last thing I did with the densifier. But the rough surface sucked it up quick compared to the smooth finish. If I had to put a number to it I say 2x the product and you should be good.

 

[GRivera]

Thanks. Which densifier is better- the Ghost Shield 4500 or the TL37?

 

[RPH]

I used 4500. I believe mixing lines can cause troubles. It may work fine with anything but will work for sure as a Ghostshield system.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Thanks. Which densifier is better- the Ghost Shield 4500 or the TL37?

I used 4500. I believe mixing lines can cause troubles. It may work fine with anything but will work for sure as a Ghostshield system.

We sell both. Just make sure you wait the 7 days and you really can't go wrong.

 

[dirtrunner0519]

I thought it is only 3 days for the densifier per one of you're sales associates? How long can you put the densifier before you do the stain?

 

[Armorpoxy]

We recommend waiting 5 to 7 days after putting down the 4500 densifier per manufacturer instructions.

 

[GRivera]

Who has the best price for the 4500 densifier and 8510 sealer?

 

[RPH]

I got mine before the guys here carried it. These guys that supply floor materials here are known to be top notch people. I would give them the business if possible. They earn it with their help to all.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Who has the best price for the 4500 densifier and 8510 sealer?

I'm not sure whose price is the best. I feel ours is fair. GJ7 coupon code does work. https://www.garageflooringllc.com/siloxa-tek-8505-concrete-sealer/

 

[Armorpoxy]

Armorpoxy also offers the Ghost Shield product line at competitive prices.
Please call our offices at 908-810-9613 for pricing.

 

[GRivera]

I'm not sure whose price is the best. I feel ours is fair. GJ7 coupon code does work. https://www.garageflooringllc.com/siloxa-tek-8505-concrete-sealer/

Is my product estimate in the right ball park?

I have 1200 sf of smooth trowed inside the garage and 1500 sf broom finished outside of it. Am I right to think 15 gallons of GS 8510 and 3 gallons of GS 4500 concentrate?

 

[GRivera]

BTW- my garage is a metal pole barn- will over-spray from either the TL37/4500 densifiers or the 8510/8505 etch the metal?

 

[Ed Devinney]

That might be right - I have 1100 feet of hard troweled floor and it barely took 5 gallons of 8505. The broomed outdoor may take more, so 15 gallons may be safe.

Overbuying isn't bad, but then there are returns to consider. Pretty sure that the vendors here make that easy.

I noticed no effect on the plated metal garage door tracks or bare steel nail heads from either 8505 or the HD37 densifier.

 

[RPH]

I did stain first. Rinsed then applied the densifier. Waited the 7 days applied the 8505. The hard part was watching for pooling. Took longer to clear any of those up then anything else. Other then the cleaning, and cleaning............and cleaning.

 

[GRivera]

I see for the concentrates of TL37 and the 8505 it recommends to mix with distilled water - how important is this?

 

[RPH]

For the $1 a gallon I didn’t debate it. Was worth the few bucks. Remember this is working on the minerals in the concrete. Don’t want to add minerals from poor water quality to the mix.

 

[GRivera]

Good point - easier to measure that way too.

 

[Garage Flooring]

I see for the concentrates of TL37 and the 8505 it recommends to mix with distilled water - how important is this?

For the $1 a gallon I didn’t debate it. Was worth the few bucks. Remember this is working on the minerals in the concrete. Don’t want to add minerals from poor water quality to the mix.

What RPH said....

 

[Garage Flooring]

Is my product estimate in the right ball park?

I have 1200 sf of smooth trowed inside the garage and 1500 sf broom finished outside of it. Am I right to think 15 gallons of GS 8510 and 3 gallons of GS 4500 concentrate?

I would figure coverage, at worst at 300 Sq. Ft per gallon. That would be 10 gallons.

 

[aeronca7ccm]

I would figure coverage, at worst at 300 Sq. Ft per gallon. That would be 10 gallons.

Justin, im not sure i was advised properly by the folks in your customer service area. I had an email exchange with them and advise them i have a 600 sqft floor. I wanted 4500 as a primer and GS 8510 to seal it. I was advise I needed 3 gallons of 4500 and 5 gallons of 8510. i called to order over the phone and the young lady who took my order advise the same numbers. I bought it. Before i started to apply the 4500 i called once more to make sure of the process and i was told that after they read the new spec sheet i don't need 3 gallons of 4500, i only need 1 gallon of 4500. Also, i don't need to wait 7 days before i apply the 8510. I only need to wait 24 hours. So this seems to contradict most of what I have read here. Can you help me out with the correct process? I have applied one gallon of the 4500 diluted 1 gallon to 3 of water as indicated on the bottle as primer. Thanks Andy

 

[RPH]

Do you have the concentrate or the ready to use 4500?

 

[Garage Flooring]

Justin, im not sure i was advised properly by the folks in your customer service area. I had an email exchange with them and advise them i have a 600 sqft floor. I wanted 4500 as a primer and GS 8510 to seal it. I was advise I needed 3 gallons of 4500 and 5 gallons of 8510. i called to order over the phone and the young lady who took my order advise the same numbers. I bought it. Before i started to apply the 4500 i called once more to make sure of the process and i was told that after they read the new spec sheet i don't need 3 gallons of 4500, i only need 1 gallon of 4500. Also, i don't need to wait 7 days before i apply the 8510. I only need to wait 24 hours. So this seems to contradict most of what I have read here. Can you help me out with the correct process? I have applied one gallon of the 4500 diluted 1 gallon to 3 of water as indicated on the bottle as primer. Thanks Andy

Ghost Shield has changed their specifications a couple of times. I have their 2017 and 2018 brochures in hand both have different information. Their website has another set of information. I can see where the confusion comes in.

Going of their website specifications, there is an important distinction:
Reconstitution Ratio: Polishing concrete: 1 part sealer : 2 parts water. Priming concrete: 1 part sealer : 3 parts water

Their latest specification guide also confirms this http://assets.contentful.com/muyees...S/9494f37364917ffb616b8a3bd9503e53/4500AI.pdf

Until recently they were suggesting 2 coats. We have always only suggested one.

Coverage is going to be 300-400 Sq. Ft. per mixed gallon. One gallon of material, after dilution will be more than enough.

They still very specifically suggest the 7 day waiting period For enhanced performance on horizontal surfaces use a densifying primer, wait 7 days and then apply the Siloxa-Tek 8510.

A 5 gallon 8510 definitely made the most sense to purchase. You will use 2-2.5 gallons per coat. If your floor is power troweled you may get better coverage. I have seen it as high a 400.

In the case of both the densifier and the 8510 I would apply enough to saturate the concrete but avoid puddling. Usually people use a lambs wool roller to clean up any overspray.

If you can email me your order number, I will issue a call tag for the additional material we suggested and issue a full refund.

 

[aeronca7ccm]

Will do, thank you Justin. I will box up the 2 gallons of 4500 and ship it back. I have a power troweled floor and i was surprised how slowly the mix soaked in. i avoided the puddling, except in a few small spots along the walls where it dried and left a flaky film. I scuffed that off and shopvac'd it up.

 

[GRivera]

Justin - I purchased the products from your site yesterday. Using the chat feature I was advised to buy (4) gallons of 8505 concentrate and (4) gallons of the TL37 concentrate. The difference in price for the 8510 was well over $400.

 

[palomar]

Has anyone used GS 4500/8510 on integral colored, stamped concrete? I'm particularly interested to know if the GS 4500 is OK on integral colored concrete?

 

[Armorpoxy]

Yes, we have had that with no reported issues.

 

[Hollywood D]

From what I'm reading it sounds like it's better to spray this stuff on that try and roll it on like an epoxy

 

[Armorpoxy]

Correct method is to spray it on with a garden sprayer. If any puddling can lightly roll it around or use microfiber mop. It's not designed to be dip/roll like a coating.

 

[GRivera]

I was planning on using TL 37 Saturday morning to prepare my driveway. It Will likely rain Saturday night and all day Sunday. Do I have to wait a certain amount of time from the time the product is put down to the time it gets wet?

 

[Garage Flooring]

I was planning on using TL 37 Saturday morning to prepare my driveway. It Will likely rain Saturday night and all day Sunday. Do I have to wait a certain amount of time from the time the product is put down to the time it gets wet?

Give it a couple of days just to be careful