Ghostshield 8510 install

[rjacobs]

Here's a thread on my experience putting down GhostShield 8510 on a 30 day old slab... probably nobody will read it and im not posting pics as everything just looks like bare concrete.

I contacted GhostShield to get recommendations on how much product to buy because they have, on their website, recommendations ranging from 120sq. ft. to 300sq. ft. per gallon... thats a huge range. The gal I worked with asked me to do a water test. My concrete was very smooth power troweled. After 10 minutes I had very very little water soaked into the concrete, it had mostly stayed on the surface and just moved around a bit. She recommended AGAINST putting down 4500 densifier on my concrete due to how little water was absorbed. We discussed my 700sq. ft. project and decided 3 gallons was probably enough...more on this later.

So it finally was forecast to drop below 90 for a day here in Dallas so I busted my *** to get the floor clean the day before. We got a cold front/rain came through in the middle of the night and the next day was forecast to be 88 as a high. Probably my only chance for a few months. I went to Home Depot and bought an HDX Bleach and Deck sprayer for 26 bucks. It is the cheapest sprayer with viton seals. It came with 4 tips. My first coat was with the brown, highest flowing tip. I ended up putting down 2 gallons on my first coat. This coat I believe was far heavier than it should have been. My second coat about 45 minutes later was with the red tip and I lightly covered the rest of the floor with the 3rd gallon. That was probably around 10-1030 in the morning give or take. I went out about 5pm and MOST of it had been absorbed/dried, but I had some puddles. I grabbed a paint roller and rolled everything out to spread it a bit. Then I closed up the garage for 48 hours since I was going out of town. Came back to everything looking uniform and dry. I havent tested the water/oil repellent properties yet as they say it can take up to 7 days for the chemical reaction to fully happen.

So if I was to do another floor with Ghost Shield I would NOT use the brown tip on the HDX sprayer. I would use the red(medium) tip for both coats. I think my first coat was pretty heavy which was basically a flood coat which isnt really what I was going for as i knew my concrete was not very porous. 3 gallons on my floor was enough, just barely. I think had my first coat been with the red tip and not brown, then 3 gallons would have been plenty as my first coat wouldnt have been as heavy.

Anyway, so far im happy with how everything has turned out. Was relatively easy to put down. I think it will do the job in this shop to keep oil stains and what not off the floor.

 

[aventino68]

I just put down my 8510 today too after putting down 4500 a week ago. The coverage required was pretty low, I had pooling (bubbles) in a couple of small parts and broomed it out. I tried to use a roller but it kept foaming and leaving bubbles so I gave up after a couple of minutes and swapped to a sprayer. With 6 gallons I covered 3200 sq ft. Seems ok.

With regards to the insulation in the photo, the electrician is in later on so lowest studs are left empty and I need a scissor lift that I haven't been able to get until the 8510 has had 24 hrs for the higher parts. Roll on tomorrow.

 

[rjacobs]

I just put down my 8510 today too after putting down 4500 a week ago. The coverage required was pretty low, I had pooling (bubbles) in a couple of small parts and broomed it out. I tried to use a roller but it kept foaming and leaving bubbles so I gave up after a couple of minutes and swapped to a sprayer. With 6 gallons I covered 3200 sq ft. Seems ok.

I had bubbles with the sprayer, but after about 5 minutes they all were gone. When I went in to roll out some small puddles a few hours later it left a bunch of small bubbles as I was rolling it, but again they were gone within just a few minutes. I dont think I would recommend trying to 100% roll the 8510. Spraying is the way.

6 gallons on 3200 sq. ft. seems crazy low... I mean their highest coverage recommendation is 300sq. ft. per gallon. So either you dont have enough 8510 on the surface to do its magic or you shouldnt have used the 4500. Like I said after doing the water test and sending the pics the lady said "do not use 4500, your concrete probably wouldnt absorb any 8510"... so I skipped it.

 

[aventino68]

Ahh, ok I just put down each one to the max amount without pooling and thats what I ended up with. The water seems to run off in "balls" as it should so it seems sealed. I'll have another look in 6 months. it leaves very little when I run a squeegee across it and dries in minutes.

 

[fouckhest]

Thanks for posting about Ghostshield, this was one of the products I originally looked at for my shop, but the concrete job was botched so I ended up with more of a coating rather than clear.

Fast forward, I am about to have an additional space to store cars and the floor is basically brand new, curious if you could post some photos and impressions since its be ~1month since application!

Thanks!

 

[rjacobs]

curious if you could post some photos and impressions since its be ~1month since application!

It looks like concrete...

Ive only gotten it wet once or twice, but water beads like a freshly waxed car. I havent gotten a chance to spill oil or other fluids on it....yet...

 

[fouckhest]

It looks like concrete...

Ive only gotten it wet once or twice, but water beads like a freshly waxed car. I havent gotten a chance to spill oil or other fluids on it....yet...

The beading sounds like a good thing, any comments on slipperiness?

 

[rjacobs]

The beading sounds like a good thing, any comments on slipperiness?

no difference than bare concrete IMO.

Its not a coating, its a penetrating sealer.

 

[fouckhest]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[madison069]

When applying the second coat, was the floor dry or did you wear spiked shoes on the wet floor?

 

[rjacobs]

When applying the second coat, was the floor dry or did you wear spiked shoes on the wet floor?

spiked shoes on the wet floor. The gal at Ghost Shield said its not imperative that you lay it down wet on wet. You can do the coats 24-48 hours apart I think is what she told me.

 

[aventino68]

Had oil sitting on it for a few days, just scrubbed with a detergent and water and this was the best I got it to. Maybe this product isn’t for me.

 

[madison069]

Some folks said if the oil was left longer than a day it would still stain. They said as long as it was cleaned up within a day, it would come up easily.

I wonder if the sealer is too thin on your surface since you mentioned you applied it at 533sqft per gallon when the highest coverage number was 300sqft per gallon?

 

[rjacobs]

Had oil sitting on it for a few days, just scrubbed with a detergent and water and this was the best I got it to. Maybe this product isn’t for me.

Like I said before, no way you put enough product down and now you are seeing those results. I put 3gal down on 700sq. ft. and honestly could have used at least another half gallon. You only put 2x product(6 gal) down on 4.5x as much floor... I bet if you call Ghost Shield they will tell you the same. You MAY be able to put more product down, but I doubt it at this point. I want to say the gal told me 24-48 hours you can re-coat if you dont want to do wet on wet, but after 7 days I think it wont take anymore.

 

[rjacobs]

I wonder if the sealer is too thin on your surface since you mentioned you applied it at 533sqft per gallon when the highest coverage number was 300sqft per gallon?

The 300sq. ft. highest coverage rating is based on using 4500 densifier. The gal said I would not get that, but I would be above the 150sq. ft. coverage rating if I had really porous concrete like an exterior broom finish. I would say I got ~200sq. ft. per gallon on bare, very smooth concrete that basically didnt absorb any water in a 10 minute water test. My 2nd coat was a bit lacking and I wished I had another .5 gal or so. I basically only hit the area's I know will be higher use and didnt put as much of a second coat in another area where I know my 4 post storage lift is going to live.

I dont think the other poster used 4500 and only used 8510 like me. With his 3200sq. ft. and my estimated 200sq. ft. per gallon he should have put at least 16 gallons down. So he was ~10 gallons shy. Even if he used 4500 and stretched to 300sq. ft. per gallon that would be basically 11 gallons...double what he put down. So im not shocked to see that his floor is absorbing oil... this is IMO not Ghost Shields fault. NOW with that said, im not going to go dump a qt. of oil on my floor and let it set for a few days to see what my results would be... but seeing how water pools on my floor and shows zero absorption I am assuming my sealer is plenty good and the Ghost Shield works if applied at a proper rate.

 

[madison069]

The 300sq. ft. highest coverage rating is based on using 4500 densifier. The gal said I would not get that, but I would be above the 150sq. ft. coverage rating if I had really porous concrete like an exterior broom finish. I would say I got ~200sq. ft. per gallon on bare, very smooth concrete that basically didnt absorb any water in a 10 minute water test. My 2nd coat was a bit lacking and I wished I had another .5 gal or so. I basically only hit the area's I know will be higher use and didnt put as much of a second coat in another area where I know my 4 post storage lift is going to live.

I dont think the other poster used 4500 and only used 8510 like me. With his 3200sq. ft. and my estimated 200sq. ft. per gallon he should have put at least 16 gallons down. So he was ~10 gallons shy. Even if he used 4500 and stretched to 300sq. ft. per gallon that would be basically 11 gallons...double what he put down. So im not shocked to see that his floor is absorbing oil... this is IMO not Ghost Shields fault. NOW with that said, im not going to go dump a qt. of oil on my floor and let it set for a few days to see what my results would be... but seeing how water pools on my floor and shows zero absorption I am assuming my sealer is plenty good and the Ghost Shield works if applied at a proper rate.

Maybe a few drops of oil in a corner that will be covered? You know for scientific purpose?

 

[aventino68]

Like I said before, no way you put enough product down and now you are seeing those results. I put 3gal down on 700sq. ft. and honestly could have used at least another half gallon. You only put 2x product(6 gal) down on 4.5x as much floor... I bet if you call Ghost Shield they will tell you the same. You MAY be able to put more product down, but I doubt it at this point. I want to say the gal told me 24-48 hours you can re-coat if you dont want to do wet on wet, but after 7 days I think it wont take anymore.

But it wouldn’t take anymore, I brushed areas where it was pooling. Maybe if the instructions said some concrete isn’t suitable. The water and everything else rolled off as beads. Oil stains like there’s nothing there

 

[rjacobs]

But it wouldn’t take anymore, I brushed areas where it was pooling. Maybe if the instructions said some concrete isn’t suitable. The water and everything else rolled off as beads. Oil stains like there’s nothing there

It doesnt soak in immediately, mine took a whole day to all get accepted into the concrete. I went back after about 8 hours and rolled out the areas that were still a bit wet from slight pooling and it wasnt until the following day that I would say it was all absorbed and dry. Then they say it takes about 7 total days to fully react with the concrete.

No matter how you shake it IMO you didnt put down near enough product and a call to Ghost Shield would likely confirm that. Did you call them before hand and chat with them? Im guessing no because there is no way they would have recommended only 6 gallons on a 3200sq. ft. floor.

 

[rjacobs]

But it wouldn’t take anymore, I brushed areas where it was pooling. Maybe if the instructions said some concrete isn’t suitable. The water and everything else rolled off as beads. Oil stains like there’s nothing there

Just as a comparison, this is just shy of 2 gallons(like 1.8) on a 680ish sq. ft. floor in a flood coat. I waited about an hour give or take before going back over it with my 3rd gallon and remainder of my 2nd. The white area's I believe are bubbles as I took this just after I sprayed it all...those bubbles settled out and disappeared.

The pics in your thread look like you put a light mist over the whole thing and with 6 gallons total, im guessing thats all you were able to get down.

 

[aventino68]

Firstly apologies for adding my installation to the thread, I didn't mean to hijack it. I used the 4500 first as the manufacturer recommended. Both the coat of 4500 and 8510 completely wet the floor and pooled in places. I contacted the supplier with the floor size and bought double of the 8510 of what I have managed to get into the floor. I have read enough times not to let it pool and dry so I put down as much as it would take. It says put down a second coat wet but when I tried that it just pooled. There is no point in leaving it to dry without it soaking in. That was leaving a white residue which looks like garbage.
As far as I can see I followed the instructions and here I am with a floor that wouldn't take any more sealer and doesn't seal with what I have in it.
Not sure what I could have done differently. If the floor isn't taking enough of the sealer to do its job there's not much I can do. Someone mentioned I could have skipped the 4500 and just gone 8510 but I have no idea how you figure that out beforehand? Someone else mentioned you have 24 hrs to get the oil wiped up in which case this stain is completely normal, everything else has wiped up without a mark.

I'll etch and paint instead. Lesson learnt. Ghostshield doesn't work they way I thought it would on some concrete, it didn't work on mine.

On the plus side I have picked it up early and the garage is pretty empty.

Weirdly the instruction info I have from Ghostshield says you cannot let it dry between coats of 8510?

 

[rjacobs]

I used the 4500 first as the manufacturer recommended.

Someone mentioned I could have skipped the 4500 and just gone 8510 but I have no idea how you figure that out beforehand?

Did you contact Ghost Shield directly or somebody else?

Ghost Shield would have had you do a water test. Put 1 cup of water down and wait 10 minutes. The gal at Ghost Shield had me send pictures(initial water, 10 minute water, wipe it all up and see if there was any penetration). I had basically zero penetration after 10 minutes and the cup of water just kinda moved around a bit. She said "do not put 4500 down as the floor would basically not take 8510 if you did that".

I think that was your main problem is you used 4500 densifier on an ultra smooth power troweled concrete with basically no pores(which was what my concrete was). So you made a dense surface even denser and then the 8510 couldnt penetrate that surface.

 

[aventino68]

Did you contact Ghost Shield directly or somebody else?

Ghost Shield would have had you do a water test. Put 1 cup of water down and wait 10 minutes. The gal at Ghost Shield had me send pictures(initial water, 10 minute water, wipe it all up and see if there was any penetration). I had basically zero penetration after 10 minutes and the cup of water just kinda moved around a bit. She said "do not put 4500 down as the floor would basically not take 8510 if you did that".

I think that was your main problem is you used 4500 densifier on an ultra smooth power troweled concrete with basically no pores(which was what my concrete was). So you made a dense surface even denser and then the 8510 couldnt penetrate that surface.

Thanks for that, that explains it. Nope I didn't talk to Ghost Shield, I just researched it on the forums and read the instructions and info on their website. When I bought the product, the 4500 densifier was recommended and so I read and followed the instructions for also applying that. No mention of a water test online and we're not all concrete experts so maybe Ghostshield should include it in the instructions. I put down 6 gallons of 8510 on top of the 4500 so around 500 sq/ft gallon for the 8510.

I did have an oil spill today that did wipe up ok an hour later, maybe that's just how the product works. Either way, I can't fix what I've done unless I etch and paint it. Or just live with it.

 

[madison069]

For giggles, I poured water on my concrete and while it did absorb some, it didn’t absorb it all. You can still see it was a bubble puddle of water still after 15mins.


I Emailed garage flooring and this is what I was told.



So, I’m still on the fence about it. I was thinking if I had more time I should test a small area where my work benches will reside and see what the results are between 4500 and no 4500.

I have 2 gallons of 4500 since I had a future concrete floor being poured soon and I got 4 gallons of 8510 also. This would allow me to do the 4500 and one coat of 8510.

These bottles they come in, will they allow me to test the results on a small area and be able to use the rest of the bottle at a later time?

 

[madison069]

The start of the test.


The left square has 4500, middle square has one coat of 8510, the right square has two wet on wet coats of 8510.

In a week I will put a coat of 8510 on the 4500 square.

Then I will test each square with water and oil.

This will ensure I get the proper application for my concrete and provide others with some inside hopefully.

Would be nice to have a density tester or some way to test it more scientifically then just, “I poured water and oil on it, it no good, or it’s good” results.

 

[madison069]

This was yesterday. The test area is fully dried now. No chalkiness or other issues mentioned online.


Five more days then I can apply a coat of 8510 on the 4500.

 

[TheDrivenGarage]

Did you ever finish your test?

 

[madison069]

I did, I did the water test on them.


The 4500 alone still allowed the water through.



One coat of 8510 had a hint of water after cleaning it up.



The two coats of 8510 showed to be the best results as there was no hint of water left after drying it off.


After I did this water test I decided to coat the whole floor with 4500 and then 2 coats of 8510. I had a water bottle leaked on the floor recently and I didn’t even see it, just felt the water splashed on my foot. I don’t know how long the water been sitting there on the concrete, but I know it wasn’t recent as that bottle was there for a few days.