GJ Collective: Need input on residing

[CombatNinja]

I don't usually start my own threads but this place is such a repository of knowledge and experience that I gave up on Google and came directly here.

I need to reside my house and garage. Place was built in 1996 and siding is some kind of cement board/Hardieplank stuff. Despite multiple paint jobs since I owned it for the last 14 years, I have probably a dozen or more rotten spots most likely from poor install. So it is time for either spot repair or residing. Both contractors I talked to discouraged me from any kind of Hardieboard product as they claim vinyl will be 1/4th the cost right now. I don't have estimates yet as they are forthcoming but one of the guys that was out claims that put the vinyl over the existing siding after furring it out, foam board and a vapor barrier. This sounds kind of slapdash to me and smacks of "Get it done as cheap as possible and it will be 3 years before the issues start and we will be long gone".

I will retire from the military in 5 years so I don't need to spend mega bucks on the house as it is not my 'forever' home.

Thoughts?

 

[NUTTSGT]

If it has rotten spots, I'd be taking it off to check/verify/repair what is underneath.

 

[CombatNinja]

The bad spots are very superficial at this point. It is still holding paint, just a bit "soft" at a few seams. No framing is bad at all.

 

[Bert_]

Why is it rotting? Are there flashing issues that are allowing water in? Too close to the ground?

If you just slap vinyl over it without fixing the issues it will continue to rot. Sometimes worse because it won't dry.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Our house was sided with painted shakes that we painted twice in a 10 year period. Thirty years ago we had it vinyl sided. Removing those shakes would have been very labor intensive. The contractor nailed thin foam insulting sheets over the existing siding and then nailed the vinyl siding through that. It still looks great after all this time.

 

[Kaizen]

My house has layer upon layer and the siding is no exception.
I am taking off vinyl and old claps and adding zip panels with tape and new shingles and claps. Just my preference as I hate vinyl. The difference after air sealing is amazing.
I will say most people don’t care as long as it looks good. Cover it with layers of **** as long as the top is good. Maybe should be your plan as you will be selling.


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[The Cobbler]

vapour barrier on the outside ? I think not. housewrap on the outside? yes .

 

[nadogail]

The location of the property is important in formulating a considered recommendation. I built an exterior wall around a patio with pressure treated 2X4 framing and Hardie planks on two sides.

After five years and constant exposure it still looks like it did on the day we painted it.

I am aware that I failed to follow all the instructions on sealing the joints, but I accept that it may someday need repair or replacement. For two amateur builders I think we, my helper and I can bé proud of it.

 

[CombatNinja]

Why is it rotting? Are there flashing issues that are allowing water in? Too close to the ground?

If you just slap vinyl over it without fixing the issues it will continue to rot. Sometimes worse because it won't dry.

Not a flashing issue. It seems that maybe it was not nailed properly as almost every bad spot has a nail. Pretty sure this stuff is supposed to hide the nails under the course above, not be visible. No issue with the ground as it is a crawlspace home and there is brick 18"-24" above grade all the way around.

vapour barrier on the outside ? I think not. housewrap on the outside? yes .

The siding contractor that came out to measure explained that it would be furring strips to provide a plumb surface, rigid foam between those all over and then everything sealed in house wrap before the vinyl goes on.

 

[BetterDays]

House built in 1979 with T1-11
Previous owner was a woodworker and could hide al of the damage from woodpeckers and bees, but we could not. Also saw the signs of rot that occur over time (especially 40 years). Went with vinyl siding last year and completely changed the look of the exterior from a tudor to a craftsman. Best investment we have made yet in this house!

 

[BetterDays]

Not the same angle, but I am sure you can see the difference

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[karoc]

Congratulations on your 5 yr plan. I don't think Hardi will rot but masonite will. Since your retiring and moving I also would not spend $ for Hardi siding due to cost. At this time T1-11 may also be up there in price which would a pretty good choice. But I do not care or like vinyl siding, here in south it looks good for few yrs then start bowing and just moving popping off. Yea its the way that it is installed but lot houses here with vinyl and all has the same problem.
Because your moving, and with the economy the way it is I also agree that vinyl may be a better choice. I would take pictures of the installation and when time comes to resale you will have pics showing foam boards between furring strips to use that as a selling tool. Maybe just a good power washing before goes on market to help it look fresh again. But I still would not put if on my forever home,Tx heat takes its toll.

BetterDays, that does look good.

 

[CombatNinja]

I am in hot and humid southern NC. We get plenty of rain and the relative humidity seems to hover around 90% through September. That is one of the reasons I am concerned about letting them side over the existing.

I too hate vinyl for so many reasons. It looks cheap, it punctures easily, it bows in the heat, it rips off in storms. But it is cheap.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

I used to have vinyl siding on both my house and shop. Here, in Oklahoma, I experienced problems with mold growing on the vinyl after a few years as well as wind blowing it apart or off. I now have steel siding on the house and "barn" metal on the shop. Both have been that way for over 10 years and I am quite happy with the upgrade. Have you considered steel siding or barn metal?

 

[matt_i]

There are different grades of vinyl, one is not locked into the very cheapest grade.

My neighbor put on some "cedar shake" vinyl and I think its a fairly impressive accent.

I'm in the "no painting" camp, whatever choice that may be. Life is too short to be painting houses.....

Also its worth paying attention to the details if you did go vinyl. I've fixed a few of the mistakes with some rotten wood underneath. Bending the "tongues" on a J-channel over top of a window or door, and supplying a method for directing water that drips down the side of windows and door frames back to the next "hook" is a key part of it.

 

[BetterDays]

There are different grades of vinyl, one is not locked into the very cheapest grade.

My neighbor put on some "cedar shake" vinyl and I think its a fairly impressive accent.

I'm in the "no painting" camp, whatever choice that may be. Life is too short to be painting houses.....

Also its worth paying attention to the details if you did go vinyl. I've fixed a few of the mistakes with some rotten wood underneath. Bending the "tongues" on a J-channel over top of a window or door, and supplying a method for directing water that drips down the side of windows and door frames back to the next "hook" is a key part of it.

We have shake on the front, board and batten accents, and normal vinyl siding around the sides and back(which was heavier than other vinyl we looked at as part of the process.



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[Glemon]

Our house was built in '95. You probably have defective siding, ours swelled, got mold, etc. In spots and was subject to a class action suit and settlement. By the time we resided, in the early 2010s, the lawsuit money, which was only a partial reimbursement for actual damaged portions anyway, was all gone, but might be worth checking.
https://scottspainting.com/class-action-lawsuits.html

We went with vinyl replacement siding, I don't get all the hate for vinyl, you don't have to paint it and it lasts a long time.

 

[Bert_]

We went with vinyl replacement siding, I don't get all the hate for vinyl, you don't have to paint it and it lasts a long time.

The siding itself can look OK. But the details never do. All the j chanel especially. And nobody does trim right when they put up vinyl. You get siding all the way from the eve to the foundation.

It's not that you couldn't trim it better but nobody does because people do vinyl because they want it cheap.

 

[KenC]

I don't usually start my own threads but this place is such a repository of knowledge and experience that I gave up on Google and came directly here.

I need to reside my house and garage. Place was built in 1996 and siding is some kind of cement board/Hardieplank stuff. Despite multiple paint jobs since I owned it for the last 14 years, I have probably a dozen or more rotten spots most likely from poor install. So it is time for either spot repair or residing. Both contractors I talked to discouraged me from any kind of Hardieboard product as they claim vinyl will be 1/4th the cost right now. I don't have estimates yet as they are forthcoming but one of the guys that was out claims that put the vinyl over the existing siding after furring it out, foam board and a vapor barrier. This sounds kind of slapdash to me and smacks of "Get it done as cheap as possible and it will be 3 years before the issues start and we will be long gone".

I will retire from the military in 5 years so I don't need to spend mega bucks on the house as it is not my 'forever' home.

Thoughts?

Pics would help, but from your description (esp the problems around nail holes) sounds like Masonite or similar. Hardie hasn't had those issues.

I'm in the no vinyl camp, mostly because of the difficulty in assuring a good installation and high quality product. There are a lot of substandard versions of vinyl and even more substandard installers.

Hardie is expensive and more difficult to install for sure.

I'd take a look at LP Smartside. Easier to install than Hardie, good warranty, more expensive than vinyl.

 

[yeldogt]

Why not give some pictures?

There are many siding types ... the masonite types did have problems. Have seen many Hardi w/ incorrect installs.

With vinyl -- it's about the opening details. On traditional houses with trim -- retrofits w/Vinyl destroys the look ...especially when the house has many windows. Going over existing requires all the widows and doors be caped to hide the extension -- or you have the J channel sticking out. I would refrain from going over the old.

My beach house has vinyl accents -- part is brick. We went with the shakes to match what was there before ....it's an old cape. You still have the "J" channel issue .. but, the shakes are different and don't scream ... 4" vinyl clap.

I have used Hardi with great results over many years .... use it because it comes in wide planks. 7" exposure looks proper on a traditional house and you can's do that with many products ....

 

[CombatNinja]

Pics would help, but from your description (esp the problems around nail holes) sounds like Masonite or similar. Hardie hasn't had those issues.

I have about 10 or 12 spots like these. Some of the higher up ones are al little worse where it extends up a seam halfway. All the issues are on the two gable ends where my eaves are not as large. Why on Earth they don't build theses things with 3' eaves all the way around is beyond me. Very minor but it is time do do something. I guess this stuff is Masonite? The siding guy called it "Hardieboard" but I think he just uses that term for any product that resembles it.

 

[KenC]

Pretty sure that's not Hardie. Looks like Masonite or another brand of similar material.

On the bright side, it is usually easy to remove. Replacing with a similar shaped material, after adding a good housewrap would be fairly easy.

Just me, but I would not go over it, unless the new material is the same dimensions, as the detail at openings and corners wouldn't look 'right' IMO. If using a replacement with the same dimensions it could be installed very similar to reroofing. **** the top of the new piece into the bottom of the old one so the total thickness is less than 1".

I'd bet the labor to remove that wouldn't exceed the prep work for any overlay product by much, require less time at the windows and doors and would look much better in the end.

 

[rburke65]

I’m pretty sure that is not hardieboard.

 

[reader2580]

That looks like Masonite/hardboard siding. It is almost certainly not cement siding. I would absolutely tear it off for a much better siding job.

For a higher end house I would absolutely go with Smartside/cement siding. For a starter home I would just install a good grade of vinyl siding. A realtor might help you decide if better siding will increase your resale value.

 

[CombatNinja]

Okay, so we all seem to be in universal agreement that this is not Hardieboard/Hardieplank/Hardiewhatever. Glad that got solved.

So let's assume it is 'hardboard' (whatever that is). Is there any issue with siding over it, provided they break out any suspect portions (as the contractor said they would), patch it, fur it out, install rigid foam, house wrap and then vinyl? I guess I have this nagging feeling about it rotting under the house wrap but I'm not sure I'm basing that on anything real. If it can stand up to the weather, as it has for 27 years, what is the problem with it sitting there all covered up?

This house is definitely more of a 'starter home'. It is a 1350 sq ft ranch home with small bedrooms and a big garage and a huge yard. Definitely not what most families are looking for these days. They all 'need' 5 bedrooms (because they have 2 kids), 'open concept', giant bathrooms and a 20' x 20' garage that they call a "2-car". But they don't park in it because it is full of kids toys and assorted ****.
I bought it 15 years ago when I first got in the Army and have been in it ever since mainly because I never had kids to force me to upsize. I've put on a roof, gutted the garage, redone the HVAC, replaced every plumbing fixture, floors, new kitchen, landscaping and so on and so forth. I've rebuilt the freaking house bit by bit. I think I am just tired of things that need maintaining with paint all the time. I am about a decision or two away from ripping off the deck and pouring a concrete patio for the same reason.

 

[Bert_]

A negative of putting new siding over the top is it makes all your windows and doors appear sunken in the wall.

 

[CombatNinja]

A negative of putting new siding over the top is it makes all your windows and doors appear sunken in the wall.

I keep hearing that but I am getting new windows at the same time so I think they can account for that? The look we are going for is that Pintrest favorite "Modern Farmhouse" and those windows are often very flush anyway so not sure I care too much about this.

 

[paredown]

I'm in the strip and re-side camp--gives you a chance to see what's underneath. It will also make the new window install easier, you can add outside lights, add new windows (if needed), put up a quality house wrap and do all the seam seal detailing for that and the windows.

Then pick your siding. I like Hardie (with the one proviso--it doesn't work that well in short sections, say filling in between two close windows.) Add Azek trim, and you should be good until the house is bulldozed. I was the detail guy when we did a cool treatment with Hardi Plank on our house in AR--and other than the care needed (cutting dust), carrying etc it is a good product.

I have done vinyl--and really the devil is in the details. There are a lot of sloppy installs out there--siding nailed too tight (it has to move a little), too short sections just shoved into J channel so it will pop or get blown out--and I dislike the typical soffit material--it does not breathe as much as a proper attic vent. You can make it look decent, but I see far more bad jobs than good.

My fave of course is wood--we did a duplex in an nice factory primed wood siding that was cut in Chile that our local real lumberyard had a deal on. Went up straight, stayed straight--and the factory prime was good enough that the cheapskate homeowner left it with just the prime coat on for almost two years...

And yes, reasonable people hate painting houses--but with good modern paint and a clean base you can probably squeak out 10 or more years between paint jobs--and that's about the time that your "new" vinyl siding will be covered in mold, rippled from the sun and have pieces that have blown off.

Pick your poison, I say...

 

[SALIV8]

We had new siding put over old asphalt siding. It looks great and the news windows look good to us also.

It will add another layer of protection/insulation in my mind. We’ve had no problems

 

[CombatNinja]

Hardie is a nice product no doubt. Around here, you are talking $500K+ houses that get it. Both siding contractors flat out told me that my house and neighborhood are not even worth considering it. Whatever my vinyl quote comes in at, I was assured that the Hardie quote would be 4x as much, easy. This is a small house that an Army Private can afford (I should know), not some expensive house in an historical district in some overheated real estate market. I already have the nicest property in the subdivision and probably the highest value per square foot so there is no benefit to further over improving.

 

[BetterDays]

We had new siding put over old asphalt siding. It looks great and the news windows look good to us also.

It will add another layer of protection/insulation in my mind. We’ve had no problems

Same here.
Contractors removed the brick facade with weeping mortar joints (not sure who thought that was a great idea!) and then wrapped the house, putting up the new siding and brick accent. We had them wrap the windows for a better detail since we liked the way it looked.