GJ/Internet Sellers & Buyers Guide

[wbrian63]

As the saying goes "I don't mind being told I'll have to wait, but I'll be damned if I'll be ignored."

Sellers -

• When the item sells - post a response into the "for sale" thread indicating sale is in progress. I like to see this even in situations where you're just at the haggling stage.
• When you get your $ from the buyer, eMail them and acknowledge receipt of the $. Provide a shipping date in that eMail. If you know the shipment is going to be delayed, tell the buyer THEN. Most buyers will give you a little wiggle room on the date, so if you tell 'em "It'll ship Monday" and you don't actually get it done until Tuesday or Wednesday, you're probably OK. Waiting more than 48 hours after purchase (excluding weekends and holidays) is not cool. That being said, sometimes life does get in the way, so keep in touch.
• PayPal loves taking money and hates giving it up. When the seller sends you the money, it comes out of their bank account faster than the blink of an eye. When it gets to your PayPal account and you request it be transferred to your bank - it takes a few days. This does not mean you get to wait to ship until the funds are in your bank - that's not cool. That would be the same as the grocery store offering to deliver your ice cream once your check had cleared. When you get the $ - SHIP THE PRODUCT. Remember that unless you have a PayPal Premium (I think that's what it's called) account, you're limited to $500/month in withdrawals.
• If the buyer contacts you and requests a shipping update, and the item still hasn't shipped - RESPOND to the eMail and tell the truth. Then provide a FIRM shipping commitment - and MAKE THE DATE.
• Take reasonable care to properly package what you're shipping. Virtually all methods of shipping will see your package come in to close personal contact with the human equivalent of a "gorilla with a hangover", plus a variety of machines that don't give a tinker's damn about the contents of the package. If you're selling something that's in the box you got from the store - that box is most likely not a shipping-ready box. The best way to guarantee product loss/damage is to allow the item to flop around inside the box. Pack it in tightly - add additional cardboard battens in places where there are sharp corners - they'll poke thru and catch on everything along the path from seller to buyer, destroying the package or the contents in the process. The cost of shipping the item should be factored into the cost of the sale, unless quoted separately. Buyers should expect to pay reasonable shipping costs, which should include proper packaging. If you package it poorly and the item is damaged in transit, you're going to have an unhappy buyer on the other end and be stuck dealing with the fallout of your decision to ship a 1/2" SO Flexhead Ratchet in a manilla folder...
• Beware of the USPS "If it fits it ships" deals. The largest boxes are supposed to allow up to 70#'s. I've gotten a couple of items that were 50/60#'s, and if it weren't for the efforts of the shipper to use about $5 worth of packing tape, the contents of those boxes would still be circulating thru the US Postal Service...
• Some shipping co's are better than others. It's been my experience that UPS handle's boxes somewhat roughly, but not enough to cause permanent damage. Fedex Freight employs handlers and drivers from the simian species - I watched a Fedex Freight driver KICK one of my packages out the back door of his truck onto the concrete. No damage occurred, and when I asked how he thought that was acceptable treatment of other's belongings he stared at me, said nothing and walked away... Fedex HOME only delivers on Tuesday-Saturday, and if the buyer isn't present to accept delivery, there's no way to retrieve the item from the Fedex depot until the delivery has failed 3 times... Of course, other's experiences may vary.
• As soon as the part is shipped, provide the buyer with shipment notification, with expected receipt date, if available.
• Remember - the buyer has placed their trust in you. You have their $, they just want their stuff. You are a faceless presence on the WWW - put yourself in their shoes and keep the lines of communication open.
• If you're not willing or able to readily answer questions from potential buyers and current customers - you're not ready to be a seller. (See note in Buyer's section for reciprocal of this statement.)

Buyers -

• When you see something for sale - if you want to buy the item, put a "PM Sent" response in the thread first. Then send the seller a PM (or transact business in the thread - but I prefer PM's). That makes it easy for the seller to know who was first in line.
• When you send the $ - eMail the seller (or PM) and tell them the $ on the way. Providing a PayPal transaction # is a good idea.
• If there's a delay in the shipment of the item and you've not heard from the seller, allow reasonable time for "life" issues before you ding them for an update. This "reasonable time" value is proportional to the # of postings the seller has, and the value of the item being purchased. Lower postings, higher value = quicker dinging.
• Be "nice but firm" in your dings. Starting out in an accusatory tone won't do much to endear you to the seller, and might cause them to drag their feet more.
• When the items are received, update the "for sale" thread with receipt confirmation.
• If there are issues with the item, like shipment damage or "not as advertised" - contact the seller before posting to the forum. It may just be a simple mistake and honorable people should be allowed to fix their errors in private. "Praise in public, criticize in private."
• If the items are "as offered for sale" - say so. There are many people that augment their incomes by buying and selling via the internet (I suspect some people live comfortably off these efforts...) - as the saying goes "tell your friends..."
• Don't pay for the items in any fashion that would hamper your ability to retrieve your money should the shipment fail to occur. PayPal (Goods - NOT GIFT) and then fund the payment with a Credit Card - not a DEBIT card is probably the safest way.
• Just because you bought something from someone does not make them your personal whipping boy/girl. Be POLITE. This doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. The amount of pestering a seller should have to endure is directly related to the value of the item being sold. 20 questions about a big SnapOn toolbox is part of the course. More than 2 questions about a $5 SK socket is probably a bit much, and you're wasting the seller's time. If you're interested in an expensive item and the seller is reluctant to answer questions, that's probably a good hint you should take your business elsewhere.
• Shipping costs money. Packaging costs money. The more rural you or your seller are, the more it's gonna cost to get the product. The heavier the product is, the more it costs to package and ship. When you buy something in a store, part of the price you pay is the packaging/shipping costs to get that item on the shelf. Of course, there are economies of scale at work, but the concept is the same. Don't expect to buy a 50# vise and get it shipped to you for $7.95. Likewise, don't buy a 1/2" Plomb wrench and be willing to pay $19.95 for shipping.
• If you do get screwed - as I said previously "tell your friends..."

This is just my 2-cents worth. I'm sure others will have additional suggestions.

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

Here's where I put in another plug for the iTrader add-on for vB. As important as the classified section is, it makes no sense to me why we don't have this. It would address some of the points mentioned above. Some features of iTrader:

Rate another member: Positive / Negative / Neutral
Specify in each transaction: Buyer, Seller, or Trade
Leave multiple comments about the deal
Dates & IPs are all recorded to prevent abuse
Specify a thread URL to the deal
Advanced URL checking
Display ratings over time
Filter based on Buyer/Seller/Trade/or feedback they left for others
Users can edit/delete ratings left for others (time based limitation)
iTrader Admins can edit/delete anyone's ratings (just incase)
PM notification when new rating or comment is left
Per-usergroup permissions
Lots of admin controllable options

 

[Hiball]

As the saying goes "I don't mind being told I'll have to wait, but I'll be damned if I'll be ignored."

Sellers -

• When the item sells - post a response into the "for sale" thread indicating sale is in progress. I like to see this even in situations where you're just at the haggling stage.
• When you get your $ from the buyer, eMail them and acknowledge receipt of the $. Provide a shipping date in that eMail. If you know the shipment is going to be delayed, tell the buyer THEN. Most buyers will give you a little wiggle room on the date, so if you tell 'em "It'll ship Monday" and you don't actually get it done until Tuesday or Wednesday, you're probably OK. Waiting more than 48 hours after purchase (excluding weekends and holidays) is not cool. That being said, sometimes life does get in the way, so keep in touch.
• PayPal loves taking money and hates giving it up. When the seller sends you the money, it comes out of their bank account faster than the blink of an eye. When it gets to your PayPal account and you request it be transferred to your bank - it takes a few days. This does not mean you get to wait to ship until the funds are in your bank - that's not cool. That would be the same as the grocery store offering to deliver your ice cream once your check had cleared. When you get the $ - SHIP THE PRODUCT. Remember that unless you have a PayPal Premium (I think that's what it's called) account, you're limited to $500/month in withdrawals.
• If the buyer contacts you and requests a shipping update, and the item still hasn't shipped - RESPOND to the eMail and tell the truth. Then provide a FIRM shipping commitment - and MAKE THE DATE.
• Take reasonable care to properly package what you're shipping. Virtually all methods of shipping will see your package come in to close personal contact with the human equivalent of a "gorilla with a hangover", plus a variety of machines that don't give a tinker's damn about the contents of the package. If you're selling something that's in the box you got from the store - that box is most likely not a shipping-ready box. The best way to guarantee product loss/damage is to allow the item to flop around inside the box. Pack it in tightly - add additional cardboard battens in places where there are sharp corners - they'll poke thru and catch on everything along the path from seller to buyer, destroying the package or the contents in the process. The cost of shipping the item should be factored into the cost of the sale, unless quoted separately. Buyers should expect to pay reasonable shipping costs, which should include proper packaging. If you package it poorly and the item is damaged in transit, you're going to have an unhappy buyer on the other end and be stuck dealing with the fallout of your decision to ship a 1/2" SO Flexhead Ratchet in a manilla folder...
• Beware of the USPS "If it fits it ships" deals. The largest boxes are supposed to allow up to 70#'s. I've gotten a couple of items that were 50/60#'s, and if it weren't for the efforts of the shipper to use about $5 worth of packing tape, the contents of those boxes would still be circulating thru the US Postal Service...
• Some shipping co's are better than others. It's been my experience that UPS handle's boxes somewhat roughly, but not enough to cause permanent damage. Fedex Freight employs handlers and drivers from the simian species - I watched a Fedex Freight driver KICK one of my packages out the back door of his truck onto the concrete. No damage occurred, and when I asked how he thought that was acceptable treatment of other's belongings he stared at me, said nothing and walked away... Fedex HOME only delivers on Tuesday-Saturday, and if the buyer isn't present to accept delivery, there's no way to retrieve the item from the Fedex depot until the delivery has failed 3 times... Of course, other's experiences may vary.
• As soon as the part is shipped, provide the buyer with shipment notification, with expected receipt date, if available.
• Remember - the buyer has placed their trust in you. You have their $, they just want their stuff. You are a faceless presence on the WWW - put yourself in their shoes and keep the lines of communication open.
• If you're not willing or able to readily answer questions from potential buyers and current customers - you're not ready to be a seller. (See note in Buyer's section for reciprocal of this statement.)

Buyers -

• When you see something for sale - if you want to buy the item, put a "PM Sent" response in the thread first. Then send the seller a PM (or transact business in the thread - but I prefer PM's). That makes it easy for the seller to know who was first in line.
• When you send the $ - eMail the seller (or PM) and tell them the $ on the way. Providing a PayPal transaction # is a good idea.
• If there's a delay in the shipment of the item and you've not heard from the seller, allow reasonable time for "life" issues before you ding them for an update. This "reasonable time" value is proportional to the # of postings the seller has, and the value of the item being purchased. Lower postings, higher value = quicker dinging.
• Be "nice but firm" in your dings. Starting out in an accusatory tone won't do much to endear you to the seller, and might cause them to drag their feet more.
• When the items are received, update the "for sale" thread with receipt confirmation.
• If there are issues with the item, like shipment damage or "not as advertised" - contact the seller before posting to the forum. It may just be a simple mistake and honorable people should be allowed to fix their errors in private. "Praise in public, criticize in private."
• If the items are "as offered for sale" - say so. There are many people that augment their incomes by buying and selling via the internet (I suspect some people live comfortably off these efforts...) - as the saying goes "tell your friends..."
• Don't pay for the items in any fashion that would hamper your ability to retrieve your money should the shipment fail to occur. PayPal (Goods - NOT GIFT) and then fund the payment with a Credit Card - not a DEBIT card is probably the safest way.
• Just because you bought something from someone does not make them your personal whipping boy/girl. Be POLITE. This doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. The amount of pestering a seller should have to endure is directly related to the value of the item being sold. 20 questions about a big SnapOn toolbox is part of the course. More than 2 questions about a $5 SK socket is probably a bit much, and you're wasting the seller's time. If you're interested in an expensive item and the seller is reluctant to answer questions, that's probably a good hint you should take your business elsewhere.
• Shipping costs money. Packaging costs money. The more rural you or your seller are, the more it's gonna cost to get the product. The heavier the product is, the more it costs to package and ship. When you buy something in a store, part of the price you pay is the packaging/shipping costs to get that item on the shelf. Of course, there are economies of scale at work, but the concept is the same. Don't expect to buy a 50# vise and get it shipped to you for $7.95. Likewise, don't buy a 1/2" Plomb wrench and be willing to pay $19.95 for shipping.
• If you do get screwed - as I said previously "tell your friends..."

This is just my 2-cents worth. I'm sure others will have additional suggestions.

LOL... Why do we have to reinvent the wheel? The Classifieds here is a great place and i deal heavily on both sides of the spectrum as a Buyer and Seller. You obviously spent alot of time typing that up and while it has some great info, Im not aware of any issues via the classifieds in regards to someone being ripped off. The classifieds section primarily stays active with the same people regardless if your buying or selling, Most of these people have conducted business previously. I would like to add, In regards to Paypal and collecting your money. Its best to apply for a Paypal Debit card, This way you can have immediate access to your money without waiting 48 hours.

 

[JPRACING]

This has to be put in the classified section in a sticky and locked great job

 

[Rickster]

Is there something wrong with the current state of the classifieds??

 

[mikevango]

Is there something wrong with the current state of the classifieds??

this dude thinks so. so we should all abide by his rules that he typed and i didn't read

 

[wbrian63]

MikeVango:

this dude thinks so. so we should all abide by his rules that he typed and i didn't read

I posted my suggestions - (you called them rules because you admittedly didn't read them) in response to another thread "What to do when the seller doesn't ship item and won't respond to eMails?" http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71670.

Surprising as it may seem, some never get the simple stuff, and when presented in a logical line-by-line fashion, only then does the lightbulb go on.

I agree that most of what rolls thru the classifieds does so without a hitch.

I read the previously mentioned thread from beginning to end (hint hint) and was going to include this as part of that thread, and then I thought it might be better as a standalone topic.

If the moderators feel it adds no value to the forum - delete it.

I guess I'm on a tear about proper procedures. A company I consult for just got kicked in the shins by the Texas Workforce Commission because a former employee called TWC and alleged that they had failed to pay her for overtime hours worked. This "person" quit her job with no notice, and failed to pick up her final check. She wouldn't return phone calls or text messages so we could verify the address to mail the check. The TWC ruled that they were in violation of the Texas Payday Law (TPL) because they'd failed to pay her final wages. When I started studying on the various rules and regs of the TPL, I was surprised to find that technically they were in violation. If they'd had a rule in the employee manual that states final wages are due and payable at the place of work, unless the employee makes arrangements to have the check mailed. There were many, many other areas where they could run afoul of the TWC simply because they don't have procedures lined out. I've been working over the past couple of days to try to close those gaps. They're an honest company and pay employees fairly for every minute worked. To get drug thru the mud like this stings and irritates - so I'm on a tear.

But truly, I'm just trying to help.

JPRacing

This has to be put in the classified section in a sticky and locked great job

- thanks.

Rickster:

Is there something wrong with the current state of the classifieds??

I'm not suggesting there is. As noted, this post is in response to another thread. I've bought a fair amount thru this board and have been thoroughly satisfied with all the purchases and all the sellers.

Hiball - no - it didn't take that long to type. I'm a Programmer/Analyst by trade, and all I do all day long is type. If I typed slowly, I'd never get anything done...

I find it unsurprising that several of the replies to this thread (if not all) come from "regulars" in the Classifieds section. You guys are "regulars" because you've built a reputation by doing much of what my thread suggests. If you didn't play fair, you'd have long since been drummed off the island...

Frankly, some of the positive suggestions I included are based on what I've seen in your for-sale threads - how TO run a for-sale thread...

Again - if the moderators think I'm suggesting a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, then File 13 is the proper place for this thread.

Regards

 

[C.M. Thornton III]

Good suggestions. Thanks for posting...

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Surprising as it may seem, some never get the simple stuff, and when presented in a logical line-by-line fashion, only then does the lightbulb go on.

I appreciate the effort you went through to type that up, but to be perfectly honest, it's way too much information and my eyes glossed over trying to read it. Here's the deal: Sellers post their wares, members post in seller's thread saying they're sending a PM on certain stuff, later on seller will indicate whether item is sold, pending, or still available. Sellers and buyers work out payment terms via PM, whether PayPal, Money Order, Check, or trade. That's pretty much it and it's worked out well.

As for specific procedures, GJ bears absolutely no liablility for the transactions that occur here, and the procedures I outlined above are pretty much the norm.

Recently, some of the more high volume sellers have started their own feedback threads. That's cool too.

I've stated a preference for restrictions on new members posting in the Classified section, but nothing has been adopted regarding this. My solution is just not buying from them to protect myself. Ultimately, it's buyer beware.
For the record, I've never had a single problem buying tools from anyone on here.