GJ's view on HF Pricing?

[Mr_John]

Like many of you - I have A LOT of tools. A PB Swiss Phillips set, Snap On ratchet set, that includes a Snap On digital torque wrench, Knipex pliers, Wiha Torx drivers, and even the oddities like a Japanese made Vessel precision screwdriver set.

The above said, I also have a S-Load of Craftsman (Made in USA, mostly) and Harbor Freight tools. So, I have no problem paying the more expensive prices for US/German/Japanese made tools, but I've noticed the prices of many HF tools creeping up the dollar scale. That's not to say the HF doesn't have outstanding bargains vs competitors, and especially when you consider the Coupon Items, the 20% off discos, and the free stuff you can get with every purchase... BUT, I couldn't help but notice a substantial price creep on certain items.

One of the reasons this issue came up for me is two fold. I was performing a rear brake job on one of my vehicles, and used an old (Pittsburgh branded, I believe) rear brake tool. Long story short (even though I rarely use this tool), it was not working properly due to a rolling pin having somehow falling out of the end of the tool. I ended up wasting a whole bunch of time trying to compress my rear brake pads by hand with a cotter pin lodged in the hole previously occupied by a proper rolling pin. When I couldn't get the passenger side piston to retract, I had finally decided to take the tool back to HF where I noticed my tool encased in a cheap red plastic box had been replaced by a nicer black box with the brand Maddox emblazened on the outside. I also noticed the price was $50 for an 11 piece set! Ouch. Also, and moving onto my second issue -- I was told that there was no lifetime warranty on the brake kit (even though, oddly, brake kits tend to get very little use)... and even the new $50 Maddox kit only has a 90 day warranty (which equates to maybe one rear brake job for a homeowner, and only a couple jobs for a professional)!

I think I may have paid between $10 - $20 for my 13 piece kit. The fact that the new kit stickers at $50, and would still be $40 with a 20% coupon seemed to be great example of HF price creep... especially now that large competitors such as Sears have all but disappeared, and the tool trucks charge a fortune for a similar dedicated tool like this. I ended up purchasing a 22 piece (plus work gloves and blow molded case) set from Amazon, delivered free, for only $21. That's TWICE the number of tools of the 11 piece HF Maddox set for about half of the HF price - on sale!

What do you think? Do you agree with me? Do you agree that 90 days is a ridiculously short warranty for a $50 limited use tool?

 

[cptn_zippy]

Peak Harbor Freight has passed.

J

 

[ARFLY]

HF prices have increased on some items. Quality has also increased on some (not all) items. It's a natural progression of retail. The 90 day warranty is a joke for the consumer, but it generates revenue from extended warranties.

 

[Tallpilot]

I once thought that buying throwaway specialty tools for one job was a good way to save money. Now I prefer to have a higher quality tool and save the frustration.

The extended warranty game is especially galling because it only pays for one replacement. When you go back to get your replacement you either pay more for another warranty or take the 90 day risk.

I bought a TV with an extended warranty once and it was unreliable enough that it needed to be fixed a couple times a year for 5 years. I got my money’s worth from that one. The others (warranties) I’ve purchased, not so much.

If I need something cheap (to modify or abuse) I’ll go there but unless they get serious about standing behind their product I won’t buy anything expensive there again.

 

[zendriver]

An extra 275 days warranty, would make all of the difference in the world.

Just buy a $50 tool somewhere else that has a longer warranty.

Problem solved.

HF apparently figured out, they could make more money by NOT, selling a $10-20 tool kit, that includes a lifetime warranty.

 

[Mr_John]

An extra 275 days warranty, would make all of the difference in the world.

Just buy a $50 tool somewhere else that has a longer warranty.

Problem solved.

HF apparently figured out, they could make more money by NOT, selling a $10-20 tool kit, that includes a lifetime warranty.

Well, actually, no, not really - at least not at $50. The minimum warranty I typically expect on any hand tool -- and even most electronic products, is 1 year. Only backing up a tool for 90 days seems to say something about the seller and the tool - you don't think?

At $20, yeah, for the convenience of my local HF store, sure, I could live with a 90 day warranty. But come on, you can warranty a $1 screw driver and a $10 socket set for life - but not a $50 brake tool set for at least 1 - 3 years? Like I said, I voted with my money and bought a generic name set from Amazon (OMT "brand"). And get this - I just double checked, and the set I bought for $21 comes with a lifetime warranty:

LIFE-TIME WARRANTY ----- Orion Motor Tech pursue outstanding quality and service, only have point of departure, there is no terminal point. If you are not satisfied with this product or if you have any question, please feel free to contact us. We would like to issue full refund if finally we could not resolve your problem or you are not satisfied with the result. 1.Go to your amazon account and find the order. 2.Click the seller name and enter the store page. 3.Click "Ask a question"

 

[M6erfan]

Wonder if they (OMT) make you ship it back?

Edit: Their website is dodgy at best. Click on their "warranty" link and it's broken. Matter of fact, most of their links are broken (refund/exchange, terms of use, product verification, Company Info, etc.)

Clicking on their "Contact Us" link it brings you to a email fill in page. No phone, no address, nada. Tried to send them an email and that was broken too.

RED FLAG CITY

 

[zendriver]

Well, actually, no, not really - at least not at $50. The minimum warranty I typically expect on any hand tool -- and even most electronic products, is 1 year. Only backing up a tool for 90 days seems to say something about the seller and the tool - you don't think?

At $20, yeah, for the convenience of my local HF store, sure, I could live with a 90 day warranty. But come on, you can warranty a $1 screw driver and a $10 socket set for life - but not a $50 brake tool set for at least 1 - 3 years? Like I said, I voted with my money and bought a generic name set from Amazon (OMT "brand"). And get this - I just double checked, and the set I bought for $21 comes with a lifetime warranty:

You're new, do you don't know I'm one of the official "I'm not obsessed with warranties" guy, which is a sin, to many here.

Probably doled out $5 grand on HF stuff, most with 90 day warranty. The stuff holds mostly well and if it doesn't I pitch it in the scrap pile and move on.

I had a pair of "Pittsburgh Pro" vise grips for many years that held up pretty well, but the teeth on the jaws got a bit worn. After a replacement hassle, they gave me a set of "Bremen" (PP was discontinued) and frankly they are not all that, with the teeth already a bit worn. I guess I could return them but I kind feel like a ****, making a fuss over a seven dollar pair of locking pliers.

Purchased a generator without an extended warranty. If it crapped on the 91 day, I'd be screwed, but it was not expensive and has held up fine for two years now.

I'm 60 years old and overall, I'll bet I can count the total number of items I have warrantied - anywhere - on two hands.

If warranties are important, then one should go where the get the best ones - which is not HF.

Sounds' like that exactly what you did.

 

[M6erfan]

...If warranties are important, then one should go where the get the best ones - which is not HF.

Sounds' like that exactly what you did.

Uuummm, yeah. Based on post #7, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Yarpo]

I've no comment on how good the HF kit is, it looks maybe to be a bit beefier but pictures and marketing can be deceiving. That said I own one of the generic Amazon branded ones, 8Milelake, and it's been great to me. Used it about 4 or 5 times at home and then moved it to work where I've used it probably a dozen. Unfortunately it doesn't work on a lot of the calipers I seem to be working with. That said you could almost buy 3 kits on Amazon for the price of one Maddox kit, so I think you made the right choice! Seems pricey for an 11 piece kit.

 

[X1 Mike]

I don't mind a price increase that follows a quality increase. My problem is the limitations on coupons.

 

[Mr_John]

Wonder if they (OMT) make you ship it back?

Edit: Their website is dodgy at best. Click on their "warranty" link and it's broken. Matter of fact, most of their links are broken (refund/exchange, terms of use, product verification, Company Info, etc.)

Clicking on their "Contact Us" link it brings you to a email fill in page. No phone, no address, nada. Tried to send them an email and that was broken too.

RED FLAG CITY

I'm not here to defend OMT by any means - but their warranty process mentions sending complaints through Amazon, and Amazon does an excellent job of addressing customer dissatisfaction. Regardless, as I was pointing out, earlier, HF is only 90 days, so you will most likely be able to get a replacement from OMT, through their Amazon presence, for at least 90 days after purchase.

So, yes, I would not trust this (most likely Chinese) brand to definitely be there to address issues 10 years from now, but then again, the fact that they offer a lifetime warranty is at least a statement of their willingness to back up the quality of tools they're selling.

 

[Mr_John]

Uuummm, yeah. Based on post #7, what could possibly go wrong?

Remember, though, the entire kit was only $21... and I've looked it over. It's definitely well made. No, not Snap On or Matco quality, but what you've come to expect regarding some of the higher quality made Chinese tools. I would have bought this kit even if it had no warranty -- but, a 90 day warranty on a tool you might use one time in 90 days is not really much of a warranty, anyway, is it? So, my overarching point really is that many Harbor Freight tools, esp specialty tools, have really creeped up in price -- and some of these tools have **** warranties, as well.

Another example is the HF Ball Joint Press Kit. It's HF's in-house Maddox brand, and sells for $90. I recently bought a Made in USA OTC Ball Joint Press 7249 for about $110, total price, shipped. With tax, the Maddox is about $96 out the door. With a 20% coupon, your best price with sales tax is about $77 out the door. The Maddox BJ Press has only a 90 day warranty as well.

 

[Mr_John]

I've no comment on how good the HF kit is, it looks maybe to be a bit beefier but pictures and marketing can be deceiving. That said I own one of the generic Amazon branded ones, 8Milelake, and it's been great to me. Used it about 4 or 5 times at home and then moved it to work where I've used it probably a dozen. Unfortunately it doesn't work on a lot of the calipers I seem to be working with. That said you could almost buy 3 kits on Amazon for the price of one Maddox kit, so I think you made the right choice! Seems pricey for an 11 piece kit.

I agree, thanks. Also, a good idea is to place some silicone grease on the threads of the press to reduce wear and help increase longevity.

 

[zendriver]

Uuummm, yeah. Based on post #7, what could possibly go wrong?

The OP went for a warranty, that made him feel better better, about his purchase and that is fine.

IMO, for the most part, that's often about all that a warranty is good for, since most of the time, it is not ever used.

 

[M6erfan]

Remember, though, the entire kit was only $21... and I've looked it over. It's definitely well made. No, not Snap On or Matco quality, but what you've come to expect regarding some of the higher quality made Chinese tools. I would have bought this kit even if it had no warranty -- but, a 90 day warranty on a tool you might use one time in 90 days is not really much of a warranty, anyway, is it? So, my overarching point really is that many Harbor Freight tools, esp specialty tools, have really creeped up in price -- and some of these tools have **** warranties, as well.

Another example is the HF Ball Joint Press Kit. It's HF's in-house Maddox brand, and sells for $90. I recently bought a Made in USA OTC Ball Joint Press 7249 for about $110, total price, shipped. With tax, the Maddox is about $96 out the door. With a 20% coupon, your best price with sales tax is about $77 out the door. The Maddox BJ Press has only a 90 day warranty as well.

Oh I get it. Count me in as one who doesn't give a flip about tool warranties. It seemed pretty important to you in the OP though.

 

[M6erfan]

The OP went for a warranty, that made him feel better better, about his purchase and that is fine.

IMO, for the most part, that's often about all that a warranty is good for, since most of the time, it is not ever used.

Warranties are only as good as the company that backs them up.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Anyone bother to check the warranty on the broken warranty? Think of some of these purchases as an education fee. Is it really worth Your time to process a claim on some of this cheapo stuff.. If the warranty does work, Your reward is more of the same cheapo stuff.

I bought two cheapo universal ignition switches thru Amazon last week. Cheapo enough; so I ordered a spare. I lightly snugged a nut with a nut driver and the stud broke off inside the first switch. That one went in the trash, and the second switch is working ok.

Typical generic stuff sold by a dozen different retailers. Should I call Amazon for a replacement?? Truthfully; I now wouldn't want it anyway.

Cheapo tools?? Most of Us seem to have a few.. And there are a few I have loaned out under the condition they are NOT to be returned..

I have owned that 11 piece HF set with a red case for a long time, and it still works just fine.. Some of these cheapo prices are tempting at times; however; some You win, some You lose. This set proved to be a winner, but there is no way I would pay more than I did.

 

[Rabid Badger]

315 Piece Roll Pin Kit - $6.99

 

[mbshop]

Yea, noticed prices have risen for almost everything. Tool carts have risen 30.00 bucks so have other power tools. I still go there with the expectation that most will last long enough for several jobs.for me that means years. Some stuff is pure junk and won't make it the first use.

 

[L.Cheapo]

You're new, do you don't know I'm one of the official "I'm not obsessed with warranties" guy, which is a sin, to many here.

Commas on the other hand...

 

[Parrothead]

Peak Harbor Freight has passed.

J

Agreed.

I’ll use the Bauer dual action polisher as an example. It’s a rebadged version of their Chicago Electric dual action polisher that’s been around for years. I picked one up 4 years ago after coupon for $54. Now their $80 without coupon eligibility.

Here’s where they need to be careful with pricing. At $54 I was willing to take a chance that I’d figure out how to buff and polish the car and actually do it. At $80? Probably not.

It’s not unrealistic pricing or even a bad strategy, but it will lose them some sales. Clearly they’ve decided a higher margin is worth it.

They’ve done many things well, as an example the Series 2 tool boxes. For years the complaining on GJ was they were too shallow for real work environments and only came in red. Now they come in most of the popular colors, and they’re 22” deep. Green, red, orange, blue, yellow and black. There’s even a cart floating around indicating they’re going to offer white.

(Thanks to Waterloo, be careful what you wish for, you just may get it).

 

[mc4life27]

I feel that harbor freight is going back words. They have uped the quality in a few items but the prices also reflect it. But over all they **** tools and consumables the prices have gone up and the quality gone down. It's almost to the point to where I'm willing to spend the couple extra bucks to get the far better tools else where. In the past I didn't mind having to buy the things twice or use them once and throw them away because the price made sense. But now I think twice and end up going else where most if the time.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[MushCreek]

I still buy some cheap, small stuff there, but some of the big ticket items definitely have a much bigger ticket. At some point, its worth to just buy a name brand tool. I have bought a few single-use tools. I bought a floor nailer, and it worked fine to do the one and only floor I will ever do (reminds me; I need to sell that thing). Their warranty worked to my advantage once. I bought a SDS drill, which crapped out on the fifth hole. They handed me the next model up, since mine was discontinued. I got a better tool at no extra cost, and it's held up fine. Again, not much more serious concrete drilling in my future.

Recent buys include a 20 ton press, which was still ridiculously cheap on sale, and another 5 drawer cart because I HAD to have a yellow one.

 

[NUTTSGT]

You're new, do you don't know I'm one of the official "I'm not obsessed with warranties" guy, which is a sin, to many here.

Technically, the OP isn't new. He's been here about 3 1/2 years longer than you have been. Maybe he doesn't come around much or post often.






As to the OP's question, I flipped through the newest flyer when it came the other day while I had the dog outside. I noticed some prices going up. I compared a LED light strip to Menard's of similar specs, and the Menard's was $5 cheaper.

Then I checked out some grinders, 7" ones. The HF brand was just a few dollars shy of what they MasterForce brand was and it wasn't much cheaper than the Metabo/HPT one that was on sale.


What I did notice, unless I'm blind but I flipped through the flyer 2-3 times and saw no 20% off coupon.

I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Sometimes you find a tool for cheap to do a "one job" project and that cheaper tool will do. Other times, you're in a hard spot and the only tool available to do the job is the cheap one, so you buy to get by.


I've bought some stuff at HF but I'm quite leery of what I buy. If you look through your tool box or garage at your tool and how long you have owned them, what's the additional cost of buying something better if it lasts you 15-20 years or longer ? It's like anything else when you make a purchase, "caveat emptor."

 

[Mr_B]

With specialist tool sets you better off doing bit of research and buying direct off ebay when got a 15or 20% coupon running .
You buying more direct to manufacturer and it cheaper and spec/quality can be higher if research .
I got a nice 35pc set off ebay for under 60bucks with a coupon and it been used in daily auto shop for over 18 months no complaints, even box nice with pinned hinges/clasps. even companies like sunex, capri, astro etc are sourcing the same at times so if do research you get good tool at very good value and life warranty pointless on lot of hand tools, all you need is basic cover against defects or outright junk in a box and ebay and amazon pretty easy for buyers get full refunds .
so in answer to first post, lot of the items at HF are not good spec, not good warranty thus not good value for your hard earned american bucks .
The Pitts Pro range warranty is very good, too good really, but 90 days on other tools such as these speciality tool kits and the earthquake battery lines is pathetic, price increases and coupon rarity means brand names with 1 2 and 3+ yrs warranty as standard can be found almost as cheap and potentially cheaper if paid out for matching warranty .
Buying without much research at HF costs you in many ways ...

 

[zendriver]

Wife and I agree, prices have gone up - sometime significant, nearly everywhere. Now costs $14 to launch/load boat at a favorite lake, a two dollar increase over last year.

It's interesting that HF price increases is considered an anomaly, as if they don't have real-world economics to deal with while remaining profit-oriented, just like everybody else. FWIW much of the usual stuff in the catalogs seems to priced about the same, as the previous catalog.

If a better is found elsewhere, then one should go for it.

 

[tym]

Don't forget the tariffs, which are not paid by China, but by the US importer and ultimately you, the consumer.

 

[jkesselr]

Yep, making US tools cheaper than they previously were, by comparison.

 

[fasteddie]

I have learned to always check Amazon before buying anything over $15-20 at HF. I needed a ball joint press for a U-joint job. HF wanted something like $90 for the same kit I got on Amazon for $34. Same kit sold under 100 different names in the same blow molded case. Warranty? I have no idea, it's a big heavy chunk of steel that I may never have to use again but it held up to the impact wrench just fine. Of course the impact is a HF Earthquake air gun that is well worth the $74 I paid even with the 90 day. I find that if you open the box and give HF tools a workout as soon as you get them and they survive, they will last as long as a name brand tool with a 1 year warranty. I have a couple of 4 1/2" $10 HF grinders for years that I'm trying to kill because I want new clean ones but the damn things just won't die.

 

[Professional Tool User]

I find myself spending less of my tool dollars at HF these days. Some of their better tools are only marginally cheaper than name brand tools and after taking into account the cost of an extended warranty, prices are around the same.

 

[tym]

Yep, making US tools cheaper than they previously were, by comparison.

No, their prices are the same (or higher due to steel/aluminum tariffs), its everything else's prices that have gone up.

 

[Lisamelting]

When the price of imported appliances went up, U.S. manufacturers were able to increase their prices to increase margins.

 

[Mr_John]

315 Piece Roll Pin Kit - $6.99

Yep, but I think the one I bought was $5 in store, and $4 with 20% coupon + a free flashlight. I've fixed the old tool, and have a larger brake tool set, now, as well. My point was more about higher prices and some rather poor warranties at HF.

 

[Mr_John]

When the price of imported appliances went up, U.S. manufacturers were able to increase their prices to increase margins.

This is true - short sighted American manufacturers (read that as the CEOs of publicly traded companies) were more interested in maximizing profits than possibly increasing market share from foreign competitors. Foreign, competitors, meanwhile (take Samsung for example) -- started manufacturing washers in the USA and avoided the China tariffs altogether. I happened to buy a Samsung washer about half a year ago and was pleasantly surprised to see a Made in U.S.A. sticker on the back.

 

[fasteddie]

"

 

[dnschmidt]

Another worthless HF thread. Who cares? They certainly don't. Every week they open another store in Phoenix and they are always crowded. Apparently, they are doing something right as they're expanding and SEARS (God I hate that word) is contracting. If the new business model doesn't work they'll change it and do something else as they have proven to be extremely nimble. The choice is simple, buy at HF or don't buy at HF. You're not going to hurt anybody's feelings either way and certainly not theirs.

 

[Mr_John]

You're new, do you don't know I'm one of the official "I'm not obsessed with warranties" guy, which is a sin, to many here.

Probably doled out $5 grand on HF stuff, most with 90 day warranty. The stuff holds mostly well and if it doesn't I pitch it in the scrap pile and move on.

I had a pair of "Pittsburgh Pro" vise grips for many years that held up pretty well, but the teeth on the jaws got a bit worn. After a replacement hassle, they gave me a set of "Bremen" (PP was discontinued) and frankly they are not all that, with the teeth already a bit worn. I guess I could return them but I kind feel like a ****, making a fuss over a seven dollar pair of locking pliers.

Purchased a generator without an extended warranty. If it crapped on the 91 day, I'd be screwed, but it was not expensive and has held up fine for two years now.

I'm 60 years old and overall, I'll bet I can count the total number of items I have warrantied - anywhere - on two hands.

If warranties are important, then one should go where the get the best ones - which is not HF.

Sounds' like that exactly what you did.

Well, nice to meet ya - and no, I'm not actually "new," but haven't posted in a long time. Tbh, I think I wanted to, before, and forgot my damn username and p/w -- finally took the time to fix it and had something that was on my mind.

So, as you can read in my other posts, I would have purchased that kit from Amazon regardless of the warranty - so, no, warranty wasn't a big deal. It WAS, however, nice to see that the manufacturer/name brand was standing behind their tool. If it was total garbage, then it would likely have horrible Amazon reviews (which it didn't - and that's one of the advantage of buying stuff on Amazon - the great review community), and the seller/manufacturer would likely not have backed it with a lifetime warranty. Again, I based my decision on the quality of the kit, the price, and the good Amazon reviews -- the warranty was just a cherry on top.

Now, when it comes to PB Swiss, Wiha, Snap On, and Matco - I expect a solid warranty as the replacement costs are very high.

 

[joshmodelskidoo]

I dont go to hf for high quality tools. I go for decent and cheap diy tools and I can use cupons but that’s all changing

 

[Mr_John]

Another worthless HF thread. Who cares? They certainly don't. Every week they open another store in Phoenix and they are always crowded. Apparently, they are doing something right as they're expanding and SEARS (God I hate that word) is contracting. If the new business model doesn't work they'll change it and do something else as they have proven to be extremely nimble. The choice is simple, buy at HF or don't buy at HF. You're not going to hurt anybody's feelings either way and certainly not theirs.

Who cares? Well, since most of buy tools at HF, I'd imagine most care to some degree. Your comment is kinda to my point, actually -- HF is a fairly well managed company, and seems to have adjusted its prices as competitors have fallen (namely Sears - which is a store I actually really liked).

I don't think the choice is to buy or not to buy... it's more nuanced than that, and that's, again, kinda the point of this thread. Lifetime warranties on their high quality and low priced magnetic screwdrivers and phillips - as well as their high quality Quinn-branded six point sockets (made in Taiwan) - yes, please. On the other hand, a $90 90 day warrantied "Maddox" Chinese ball joint press or brake repair tool set for $50 -- uhm, no thank you.