Globe 2 Post Lift help

[JoeandKarrie]

Hello Everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I purchased a house that included an older Globe 2-post 7k lb lift a couple of years ago, and it has never quite worked perfect. If I attempt to lift a Car (most commonly a 65 Malibu SS), it would lift the car pretty quickly, then slow down to a crawl about mid-height. The height where this occurs isn't always the same, and would appear to be more based on how long the lift has been running. IE: If I had to bring it up/down a few inches several times to confirm I liked the locations before going all the way up, it would occur much lower than mid-way before it will slow down, and eventually stop lifting. I have found that if I wait ~ 15-20 minutes it has enough energy again to finish the job.

Being an older lift, with an old Power unit I assumed this to be a tired Power unit that maybe has a shortened duty cycle, or is just generally tired. That kept me sleeping at night until I recently purchased a generic new Power unit from Northern Tool to see if it resolved the issue. It goes up very nicely without a load, but as soon as I throw my Car on it, this new power unit seems to be as bad if not worse. So now I am looking elsewhere.

I have read several troubleshooting guides that suggested either low voltage to the Power unit, or air in the system. I have measured the voltage and seem to be fine there. This is a chain over roller lift, so I don't have bleeder screws. I have raised/lowered the lift numerous times as I have read you should to hep bleed the system, but it hasn't made any improvements. I should note that my ceiling is about 10ft, but has a large metal beam right where one of the posts lifts to (well done, previous owner...), so I can't completely lift it all the way up when I am trying to bleed it. I am not sure if that affects the bleeding process and haven't found any reading online to confirm one way or the other.

I have also disconnected the far cylinder hose connection and powered the lift to observe if I have any air/bleed to that point, and it was an instant/consistent stream.

I'm not quite sure where to go next. Does anyone have any suggestions?

If I have omitted any key info needed to help troubleshoot it please don't hesitate to ask!

 

[firebirdparts]

It's a very simple machine that will submit to some basic fundamental considerations. When you get it part way up, you are either encountering major friction, which should not be happening, or you are running out of oil, or for some mysterious reason the pump suddenly is not effective.

If you are encountering resistance, the flow of fluid has to stop. In that case either the motor slows down and stops or a relief valve is opening.

If you are running out of oil, then you should hear that. The motor will be speeding up rather than slowing down.

Do you observe these things?

Have you lubricated the slides on this lift?

 

[JoeandKarrie]

Thanks firebirdparts.

I agree that it is a very simple machine, and have been trying to keep that in mind as I troubleshoot it. I had thought I ruled out major friction by the fact that i goes up /down very smoothly and quickly with no load. The Motor definitely slows down/groans when the problem occurs under load. So this does seem to be the right direction. Maybe it encounters friction when there is a load on it due to the weight pushing the slides closer to the post. I'll see if lubricating it makes a positive result. Any recommendations on what to use? Bearing grease or white lithium are what come to my mind.

It does not speed up as you described would be the case if I was running out of oil so I will rule that out for now.

Could dirt/contamination in the hydraulic fluid cause the motor/pump to slow down do you think? I couldn't imagine there would be much since its anew Power unit with new fluid, but I suppose there could have been some in the lines from the old system.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll stick with the simple solutions first and lubricate the slides/check for other major friction to rule this out.

 

[SJW]

What are you using for hydraulic fluid?

Is the reservoir full?

Are you using 110 or 220 VAC power?

Is the company still in business? Did a manual come with it? Is a manual available online somewhere?

 

[kenners]

Would worn out or dry bearings cause binding ?

 

[firebirdparts]

Absolutely. I assume it has slider blocks inside the column.

 

[JoeandKarrie]

SJW,

I am using AW-32 Hydraulic Fluid. The reservoir is full according to its dipstick. I am using 220 VAC.

The company is no longer in business, and I have not had any luck finding a manual.

Thanks

 

[JoeandKarrie]

Absolutely. I assume it has slider blocks inside the column.

I think it could definitely use some lubrication. I took a look, and when sliding my finger across the post where it makes contact, it feels sticky, like the old lube is no longer good. I will give some bearing grease a try to see if it improves.

I hope there aren't any bearings, because if so they don't look fun to get to.

 

[JoeandKarrie]

Quick update - A full tub of Bearing grease, and gear oil on the Chain/equalizer cables later has made some minor improvement. Although it still appears to be quite a strain on the motor, it seems like I'm heading in the right direction.

New (related) question: I'm still curious about Hydraulic fluid contamination possibly clogging the pickup of the pump, or even getting into the pump. If anyone has any experience with symptoms of this I would love to hear about it.

I don't see a super easy way to completely change the fluid aside from possibly unscrewing the reservoir from the power unit. I'd like to avoid that unless there is a likelyhood that it could be my problem (or one of my problems, since this thing has proven to having been in need of lubrication already too).

 

[rburke65]

When I was having trouble with my lift, I stopped at a automobile service business and asked them who serviced their lifts and was given a phone number. It was..?..$85...$90 for the service call but, they corrected the issue, I learned something, and I sure felt better about working under the lift. Money well spent.

 

[JoeandKarrie]

Thanks rburke65 - That does sound like money well spent. I will have to see if I can do the same.

 

[SJW]

Under $100 for a service call? Easily sounds to me like your best bet.

Yeah, getting manuals is hit and miss but mostly miss.

Also, I think there's a good chance the manual wouldn't have much to say about your particular problem. Maintenance issues based on extreme old age of the lift very possibly wasn't covered to begin with, unfortunately.

 

[aarcuda]

check the plumbness of the posts. unloaded and loaded where it binds. aalso if you have an ammeter, check the current draw on the line and see if it goes through the roof as it binds.

If the columns are not plumb, the distance between the lift pads change as it goes up. \if the arms lock in place, the change in distance pushes or pulls the arms and can cause the carriage to bind. that causes the pump to work harder and increase the current draw. You might want to check for voltage drop. you could be starving the pump for power with too small a wire gauge or bad resistive connections

 

[JoeandKarrie]

check the plumbness of the posts. unloaded and loaded where it binds. aalso if you have an ammeter, check the current draw on the line and see if it goes through the roof as it binds.

If the columns are not plumb, the distance between the lift pads change as it goes up. \if the arms lock in place, the change in distance pushes or pulls the arms and can cause the carriage to bind. that causes the pump to work harder and increase the current draw. You might want to check for voltage drop. you could be starving the pump for power with too small a wire gauge or bad resistive connections

Thanks for the suggestion aarcuda. I can tell just by looking at the posts that they are definitely not plumb. I've been wanting to correct this (feels like a safety concern, since they both lean inward at the top a little), but I had definitely not considered the effect this would have on the distance between the pads/how this would affect the motor load. It sounds like I should move up leveling/shimming on the list of things to correct on this thing.

This Lift has been a definite learning experience - Just because the previous owner of the house used this thing doesn't automatically mean that it was setup/running right.

 

[JSK]

What I tell my guys every time a service call comes in on a power unit…”Is the voltage correct?” Of course the answer is always…”Yea, they confirmed the voltage is definitely 220-volts." We swap the power unit then low and behold, the second one too is mysteriously bad.

Now, before we ever even consider warrantying a power unit we ask the customer to do one simple thing. We call it the poor man’s voltage check.

Every electric-hydraulic car-lift power unit made has a relief valve. All of you guys know that when you bump the pressure enough to hit relief - the power unit squeals and the lifting stops. One thing that shouldn't happen however - the motor should never stall. It should run continuously even when bypassing over relief.

If/when a lift power unit is experiencing a low-voltage situation (mostly running on 110-volts due to false 220 readings), the motor will stall when you build enough pressure to hit relief. If that happens, stop what you are doing and check your true line voltage - the REAL voltage. Hire an electrician if you have to and don't always trust uncle Charlie. Are you 100% sure you have 208-230-volt power?

Some think that they have 220 volts because they measured 110-volts across each leg. Well that doesn't always equate to 220-volt single phase power.Trying to get 220 from two 110 outlets is like connecting two 90 psi hoses and expecting 180 psi. To get 220v from a typical 120/240v single-phase home setup, you need to make sure that both 110 lines are each on different breakers and on different busses in the panel board.

(I’m not saying this is your situation, I just think this thread is a good place to teach some nuances of lift power units.)

So the question is, does your motor stall at full rise which is when the relief valve should activate? (This test can be performed with or without a load on the lift.)

P.S. It is not grease or a plumb issue. That would not reduce the coefficient of friction enough to make a measureable difference.

 

[JoeandKarrie]

What I tell my guys every time a service call comes in on a power unit…”Is the voltage correct?” Of course the answer is always…”Yea, they confirmed the voltage is definitely 220-volts." We swap the power unit then low and behold, the second one too is mysteriously bad.

Now, before we ever even consider warrantying a power unit we ask the customer to do one simple thing. We call it the poor man’s voltage check.

Every electric-hydraulic car-lift power unit made has a relief valve. All of you guys know that when you bump the pressure enough to hit relief - the power unit squeals and the lifting stops. One thing that shouldn't happen however - the motor should never stall. It should run continuously even when bypassing over relief.

If/when a lift power unit is experiencing a low-voltage situation (mostly running on 110-volts due to false 220 readings), the motor will stall. If that happens, stop what you are doing and check your true line voltage - the REAL voltage. Hire an electrician if you have to and don't always trust uncle Charlie. Are you 100% sure you have 208-230-volt power?

Some think that they have 220 volts because they measured 110-volts across each leg. Well that doesn't always equate to 220-volt single phase power.Trying to get 220 from two 110 outlets is like connecting two 90 psi hoses and expecting 180 psi. To get 220v from a typical 120/240v single-phase home setup, you need to make sure that both 110 lines are each on different breakers and on different busses in the panel board.

(I’m not saying this is your situation, I just think this thread is a good place to teach some nuances of lift power units.)

So the question is, does your motor stall at full rise which is when the relief valve should activate? (This test can be performed with or without a load on the lift.)

P.S. It is not grease or a plumb issue. That would not reduce the coefficient of friction enough to make a measureable difference.

Thank you JSK, this is very good information. It also targets the main area we haven't yet. I have noticed that the pressure relief doesn't actually ever seem to be engaged. This is true when the Lift "stops lifting" under load, as well as when I go full rise without a load.

I have been wondering about this as it definitely seems like a clue. I think It sounds exactly like what you are describing. Instead of opening the pressure relief, it slows down to a moan and eventually just stalls. I will check where the two legs are coming from.

I have been looking at this as a mechanical problem, but will check out the electrical again after reading this.

Thanks!

 

[JoeandKarrie]

JSK - I think we have a winner. I previously measured the voltage at the outlet. Its a 4 wire 220v - both leg measure ~ 125 each, so seem pretty "healthy". However I trusted the previous owner's plug to the old Lift Power unit and just matched wiring to the new unit (which is 3 wire).

Well... I just measure the wires at the switch block of the power unit, and I think they have the wrong 2 power wires. One of them to ground measured 125, and the other was .4v... I think I have 1 hot and 1 neutral at the PU... So this poor motor may have been running on one leg. Shame on me for not checking this sooner. Again another lesson that just because the previous owner installed a lift and used it regularly doesn't mean it is right. I am going to trace the wiring back to the 4 prong plug before I do anything drastic, but I have a high suspicion now of what the problem is.

I will report back this weekend when I have confirmed/corrected this. Thanks to all for your suggestions thus far.

 

[JSK]

Good to hear. Please share the outcome.

 

[aarcuda]

JSK - I think we have a winner. I previously measured the voltage at the outlet. Its a 4 wire 220v - both leg measure ~ 125 each, so seem pretty "healthy". However I trusted the previous owner's plug to the old Lift Power unit and just matched wiring to the new unit (which is 3 wire).

Well... I just measure the wires at the switch block of the power unit, and I think they have the wrong 2 power wires. One of them to ground measured 125, and the other was .4v... I think I have 1 hot and 1 neutral at the PU... So this poor motor may have been running on one leg. Shame on me for not checking this sooner. Again another lesson that just because the previous owner installed a lift and used it regularly doesn't mean it is right. I am going to trace the wiring back to the 4 prong plug before I do anything drastic, but I have a high suspicion now of what the problem is.

I will report back this weekend when I have confirmed/corrected this. Thanks to all for your suggestions thus far.

Well geez! I guess I just assumed you measured 220v volts when you said you are using 220v!

Swap the leg and see how it runs! an easy fix for sure!

 

[Lucid Moments]

Well geez! I guess I just assumed you measured 220v volts when you said you are using 220v!

I don't know if I would measure it myself either. If it is a 220v outlet I would assume that it is 220v. Probably not wise when you are having problems, but I just wouldn't think of that as an issue.

 

[JoeandKarrie]

Hey everyone - the 4 prong outlet to 3 prong wiring was definitely wired wrong. I switched the neutral that was being used with the second hot 110 so I now have two 110 hot wires and a ground running to the motor (as a 3 wire should be). I didn't get the opportunity to confirm its fixed with lifting my car yet, but I finally heard what ended up being the big clue from JSK's explanation - The pressure relief valve kicked in when I lifted to the top. previously it would just stall the motor (In the same way it would when lifting the car). Being my first lift, I assumed that was normal.

Thanks to everyone for all of the suggestions. Although in the end this one was electrical not mechanical, all of the previous suggestions helped me give this lift some seemingly overdue maintenance.

 

[itrustno1]

I too have a globe 2-post 7,000lb lift AND i have the manual for it. If needed, let me know. Id post it in a sticky (i think thats what its called) but chances are i probly wont be allowed to being this is my 1st post (ive read many forums that do that for some reason).

 

[BeeOtch]

I too have a globe 2-post 7,000lb lift AND i have the manual for it. If needed, let me know. Id post it in a sticky (i think thats what its called) but chances are i probly wont be allowed to being this is my 1st post (ive read many forums that do that for some reason).

Any way you could post6 it here? thanks

 

[Yojimbo78]

I too have a globe 2-post 7,000lb lift AND i have the manual for it. If needed, let me know. Id post it in a sticky (i think thats what its called) but chances are i probly wont be allowed to being this is my 1st post (ive read many forums that do that for some reason).

Does your manual say anything about a filling/ bleeding procedure? I thought perhaps this Post would cover that . Although a lot of good insights ,I need to confirm what the process is. There isn't bleed off bolts on these cylinders .I have the same as described "7,000 lb two post "chain over roller" lift. The company that purchased Globe has very little documentation,and virtually no parts. So I've rebuilt the hydraulic hoses and now need to know how to fill and then purge the air from the system .any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Scratchfab]

I too have a globe 2-post 7,000lb lift AND i have the manual for it. If needed, let me know. Id post it in a sticky (i think thats what its called) but chances are i probly wont be allowed to being this is my 1st post (ive read many forums that do that for some reason).

I know this is an older post but I'm looking for a manual for this lift. I would really appreciate it if I could get a copy. Thanks