GLTHFJ60's Garage Expansion, Phase 1

[GLTHFJ60]

Hello GJ! I've been a lurker here for a few years and have recently started posting more as I've been planning out this project. This weekend I've been able to get started and I'd like to ask some questions about planning my mudroom/laundry room. Before that, I'd like to thank the members of this forum for contributing to this awesome site

I bought my house in late 2013 and it had this great garage that someone carved 14' out of to make a room. Seeing the potential, we snatched it up with plans to remove the room in the future. Garage dimensions in these pictures are ~22'x~16':

Offending room:

This past weekend I had a POD delivered to hold the stuff that had found a home in the garage:

Then pulled the wall apart (non load-bearing, full span engineered trusses above):

Besides, whomever built this wall had no idea what they were doing:

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Next we pulled the floor apart. One base layer of 1/2" ply, middle layer of 3/4" MDF, top layer of 3/4" ply. WTF previous owners!?!

Some joists had a few pieces of 2x4 blocking in some places at the outside wall, but nothing nailed to the stud wall, just floating on top of stacked bricks.

Water and gas connection for washer and drier:

Now I've got my clean slate!!

Next up is the plan for the mudroom and is where I have a few questions. Going tankless for the water heater would be ideal but it's just not in the cards at this point. Two options for the tank;

1. Leave the water heater where it is in the garage and work around it.
2. Move water heater into the mudroom so that it exists inside conditioned space. Plumb to it.

What would y'all suggest?

Here's a proposed plan if the water heater goes into the mud room:

 

[Pluribus]

I'm with you on the, "WTF, previous owners?" Not just for the construction methods, but who in their right mind gets rid of usable garage space in the first place?! Hopefully you can find a use for the 2x12(?) floor joists you pulled out.

 

[CombatNinja]

I would move that water heater into your mudroom. A little more expense and hassle but it will bother you everyday out in your garage space. One thing that strikes me looking at your sketch, is there no way to reconfigure your room to give you at least the option of parking a small vehicle in that left side bay? It seems a shame to not leave at least 20' or so there to give you the option.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm with you on the, "WTF, previous owners?" Not just for the construction methods, but who in their right mind gets rid of usable garage space in the first place?! Hopefully you can find a use for the 2x12(?) floor joists you pulled out.

Could not agree more

2x12s they are indeed. Tons of nails and whatnot in them but they're 20' long. Need to come up with a use for them or sell them off.

I would move that water heater into your mudroom. A little more expense and hassle but it will bother you everyday out in your garage space. One thing that strikes me looking at your sketch, is there no way to reconfigure your room to give you at least the option of parking a small vehicle in that left side bay? It seems a shame to not leave at least 20' or so there to give you the option.

I have been thinking about the left side bay quite a bit. If I move to a stackable washer/drier I might be able to shrink that room to maybe 12' long, giving me ~18' of pull-in space. That would be enough I'd think.

Need to make some concrete decisions tonight with the better half.

 

[CombatNinja]

Virtually any front-loading washer/dryer combo can be stacked. Make sure she understands she isn't limited to those tiny one-piece combo units you see in the closets of condominiums.

 

[Mavawreck]

Sweet cruiser and quite the project! Will be watching your progress.

Few of us in Durham on here now. We're over on the North side of town, just south of the Eno.

 

[tab2]

Can you orientate the mud room 90 degrees so it is 11' W x 10' front to back? This way you have on bay 30' deep x 11' wide and one bay 20' x 11'. I think that would be more useful than one bay being only 14' deep and give you the same square footage mudroom.

 

[indianporfavor]

Hey fellow mud member, look forward to seeing what you get done on the garage. Progress looks great already, good looking house and 60.

 

[bczygan]

Mudroom? Nah!

Make it all garage. Add a mudroom out the back.

Bill

 

[CombatNinja]

The whole point of the mudroom is to be attached to the main house and act as an entryway. No way he is going to add it onto the back. It has to be between the garage space and the living area. I have studied women for a long time, I have a vague sense of this "mudroom" concept.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Virtually any front-loading washer/dryer combo can be stacked. Make sure she understands she isn't limited to those tiny one-piece combo units you see in the closets of condominiums.

I did not know that. That just opened up the possibilities quite a bit. Thank you!!

Sweet cruiser and quite the project! Will be watching your progress.

Few of us in Durham on here now. We're over on the North side of town, just south of the Eno.

Thank you! I'm south of southpoint mall.

Mudroom? Nah!

Make it all garage. Add a mudroom out the back.

Bill

The whole point of the mudroom is to be attached to the main house and act as an entryway. No way he is going to add it onto the back. It has to be between the garage space and the living area. I have studied women for a long time, I have a vague sense of this "mudroom" concept.

Yes, need the entry room to the house and would prefer not to move the washer and drier connections to an exterior wall.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Had a layout meeting with the better half yesterday and decided on the following layout. Much smaller footprint, will allow me to move to tankless when I can afford it without wasting space and allows us to use our standard washer/dryer until we can purchase HE stackable units.

What do y'all think? This gives me one 20' deep bay and one 29' deep, but extra wide, bay:

 

[drivesitfar]

GLTH: can you put the door from MUDROOM into garage on the 9 foot wall? that way you'd still have 5-6 feet of corner for bench and cabinets and what not on the 9 foot wall. then the door and stairs won't eat up space in the smaller garage once the water heater is changed to a tankless one. just a thought.

also if you are planning on staying for many years you might want to put some sort of cover over the front porch cause guessing with all that green that you might have nearly as much rain as we do here in Seattle.

good luck

 

[GLTHFJ60]

GLTH: can you put the door from MUDROOM into garage on the 9 foot wall? that way you'd still have 5-6 feet of corner for bench and cabinets and what not on the 9 foot wall. then the door and stairs won't eat up space in the smaller garage once the water heater is changed to a tankless one. just a thought.

also if you are planning on staying for many years you might want to put some sort of cover over the front porch cause guessing with all that green that you might have nearly as much rain as we do here in Seattle.

good luck

Good idea on putting the door on the 9ft wall. My concern is that the stairs for said door would then cut into the other bay, which will be used for automotive work on everything from my F-550 to a myriad of Land Cruisers down to VWs, so I will want to use every bit of that 14' of space.

As for the front porch, it's like you're a mind reader That's part of the grand plan, but first is tackling the front landscaping. I've already felled 16 trees and have another 8 or so to come out. Once the tree work is done, I've got some grading, then a covered porch!!

 

[drivesitfar]

GLTH: another option is to get a small line of credit and push out the back of the garage 20 feet cause you definitely have several projects and the skills to use that big of a garage. tear the deck off and out the back with 3 walls and a roof, cement floor and you are GOLDEN. not sure what your permit process is and if that is over a septic tank or drainfield, but i'd bet we are only talking about $5,000 and maybe $10,000 in materials and some labor.

your call on the door and mudroom if you go that route. i hear those tankless water heaters are awesome so maybe bite the bullet and just make a spot for it now and then you can park at least 2 cars inside.

i'm thinking of doing a tankless one too now that all my kids are out of the house and college so i'll start looking at a few threads about them if there is any or start one to learn as much as i can. they've been around for almost 20 years i'm guessing so i bet they have some good technology by now.

good luck

 

[GLTHFJ60]

GLTH: another option is to get a small line of credit and push out the back of the garage 20 feet cause you definitely have several projects and the skills to use that big of a garage. tear the deck off and out the back with 3 walls and a roof, cement floor and you are GOLDEN. not sure what your permit process is and if that is over a septic tank or drainfield, but i'd bet we are only talking about $5,000 and maybe $10,000 in materials and some labor.

That's going to be "Garage Expansion Phase II"

The "right" wall of the garage will be blown out and expanded by 16 feet or so during phase two. Not sure at this point if I'm going to also expand rear words, but we'll see!

your call on the door and mudroom if you go that route. i hear those tankless water heaters are awesome so maybe bite the bullet and just make a spot for it now and then you can park at least 2 cars inside.

i'm thinking of doing a tankless one too now that all my kids are out of the house and college so i'll start looking at a few threads about them if there is any or start one to learn as much as i can. they've been around for almost 20 years i'm guessing so i bet they have some good technology by now.

good luck

We'll see when I get to the wall framing section of this build where I want to put the door. Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the door where I specified in the layout, because in the layout, I did not show that the kegerator, a large set of shelves, a 20t press and TV share that same wall.

I've got a spot for the tankless heater picked out, just need to save up the coin for it. That's the reason for this specific mudroom layout, that we're not building space for a water heater that will, hopefully soon, not be needed. I've been doing a lot of reading on them over the past two weeks and it seems like the kinks are worked out. The big drawback of delay in hot water seems to be figured out by setting up a recirculating pump, which doesn't add a ton of cost, unless you have to retrofit your plumbing to accommodate that (which I will).

Thanks for the good luck wishes! We're making headway, got a lot of details thought through today. Planning on moving the plumbing and ductwork through the foundation this week so I can start framing this weekend

 

[NUTTSGT]

GLTH: can you put the door from MUDROOM into garage on the 9 foot wall? that way you'd still have 5-6 feet of corner for bench and cabinets and what not on the 9 foot wall. then the door and stairs won't eat up space in the smaller garage once the water heater is changed to a tankless one. just a thought.

I was going to suggest something similar too.

When or if you move the water heater, make sure you plan for the vent, it looks like yours is a natty gas unit.

Speaking of venting, what's the plan for the dryer ? Down and out under the floor to the outside ?

Also, don't forget to utilize the area under the mudroom for storage.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I was going to suggest something similar too.

When or if you move the water heater, make sure you plan for the vent, it looks like yours is a natty gas unit.

Speaking of venting, what's the plan for the dryer ? Down and out under the floor to the outside ?

Also, don't forget to utilize the area under the mudroom for storage.

Dryer vents down, through the house foundation wall, around a corner and back again through another foundation wall. If I need to move it, I'll brick in the holes and make it a straight shot either up through the siding above the back door or straight through the foundation below the back door.

Underneath the mudroom joists will only about 10" to the concrete floor. Going to come up with an insulation solution, which will make the storage space unusable. Good idea though!

 

[CombatNinja]

I was visualuzing the mudroom being on the same level as the garage and then stepping up into the main house. I guess putting it up on the same level makes it seem like less of an 'addition' from the main living quarters. Having to put stairs up to that entry door to the mudroom inside that left bay is going to kill your limited space there. I would 100% move the door to the other side. That is, if you cannot convince the wife to have her laundry room sunk below the level of the house. That would be my preferred course of action as you are never going to really, truly get away from the feeling of this being an 'addition' at the end of the day anyway.

 

[drivesitfar]

NINJA: i like your thinking, but did you see the back door onto the deck is also above the garage floor level? that would have to be lowered too to make your plan work.

GLTH: maybe put the water heater next to the wall of the mudroom instead of out in the open area if possible since it sounds like you are able to do a little plumbing. at least you might be able to park a small car or trailer in that area if it's not all storage until Phase II and Phase III start.

good luck

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Can't put the mudroom at garage level, it needs to be at house level. I believe I can get away with just two stair treads from the door to the garage floor, which wouldn't be too intrusive.

I think it's worth mentioning that cars won't likely ever be parked inside this garage unless they are under the knife, so being able to pull a car into the left bay isn't much of a concern to me at this point. It was brought up as a "future-proofing" thought, not as an immediate need.

This isn't a great picture of the garage, but I think it'll give you an idea of my intended use. You can see in the left of the frame that the large wood shelves next to the hydraulic press and the water heater is behind/underneath the TV:

Another picture showing how much stuff is in this garage right now. While this will improve with the added space, I'm still planning on using the entire left side for tools/parts/storage and not for a vehicle:

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I will say thought that I hear you guys on moving the door, so I'm working on modeling up the room in sketchup to see how I'd like it. Worst case scenario, I don't like where the door ends up so I move it later down the line

 

[CombatNinja]

Please tell me that is not a picture of 3 guys under a truck held up by only a floor jack. I see jackstands up front but if that floor jack were to fail...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Please tell me that is not a picture of 3 guys under a truck held up by only a floor jack. I see jackstands up front but if that floor jack were to fail...

So quick to judge!

It's not. The truck is supported on the frame by the 6T jackstands you see in the picture. The floor jack is just used to compress the suspension a bit to get shocks on.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Floor and stem wall drawn up for the mudroom. Need to move a few things and then get this floor built to make a final decision on the location of the door. 2x6s will be used for the stem wall (pressure treated for the bottom wall plate) and then 2x10s for the joists.

EDIT. Check the post a few down for drawings.

 

[cdd1]

Nice progress and ideas.

Is that a Bills T-Shirt I see?

Let's go Buff-a-lo!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Nice progress and ideas.

Is that a Bills T-Shirt I see?

Let's go Buff-a-lo!

Yes sir!! My better half is a die-hard Bills fan, and therefore I am too, by way of osmosis

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Drew the layout on the floor to get a better spacial idea of the mudroom with the washer and dryer. Decided on widening the room by another 6". Updated drawings:

More updates to come.

 

[drivesitfar]

GLTH: i'm guessing you are adding 1/2 or 5/8 for sheetrock on both sides? hard to tell cause your drawings are so big coming out in almost two pages. if you can afford to give up a few inches to make the laundry room nicer i'd do it cause HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE is the best saying i can tell you. also it sounds like she might be ok with the planned Phase II & III so make that porch first is my advice. nothing worse than standing in the rain with a bag of groceries or just trying to get the key in the lock and get inside. i kinda doubt you'll have the garage access clear for her to come in through there so JUST SAYING.

cheers.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

GLTH: i'm guessing you are adding 1/2 or 5/8 for sheetrock on both sides? hard to tell cause your drawings are so big coming out in almost two pages. if you can afford to give up a few inches to make the laundry room nicer i'd do it cause HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE is the best saying i can tell you. also it sounds like she might be ok with the planned Phase II & III so make that porch first is my advice. nothing worse than standing in the rain with a bag of groceries or just trying to get the key in the lock and get inside. i kinda doubt you'll have the garage access clear for her to come in through there so JUST SAYING.

cheers.

Don't know how I missed this! 5/8" sheetrock is part of the plan but not represented in the drawings. Landscaping and hopefully the front porch are up next!!! I hear you!!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Had a busy weekend. I'm very sore, lol.

The gas line, washer dryer box and one visible outlet have to move to the right a few feet because the room that the washer and dryer are in is shrinking. This sequence was Friday night:

PEX is awesome stuff. Wetness on the wall in the pic is the soapy water I used to leak test the gas line:

This was my first time doing any plumbing work on this house. Turned out very well I think!!

Picked up materials Saturday AM. That's all we got done before going to the fair:

Sunday was opening up a hole for the ducting, finishing the plumbing, installing a dryer duct and doing a little electrical:

Very happy with how this came out:

Got everything cleaned:

Built some stem walls as per the drawings:

Drilled and bolted the floor:

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Finally joists. Ran out of steam at this point. Ever realize you're tired because you can't drive a nail straight to save your life? Yeah, that's when we decided to stop.

Hope to get the floor done today and/or tomorrow so that we can move on to wall framing

 

[drivesitfar]

AWESOME JOB on the plumbing and framing.

i haven't used any of that plastic pipe yet. how do you like it? since you haven't done plumbing before i'll give you a solid congratulations for taking it on. also if you are moving gas lines did you test them before you seal up the floor for leaks?

speaking of the floor. i know there is not a very good chance of you ever needing to get in that crawl space, but i'd still put in a trap door in the room maybe under the dryer if you don't want it in the middle just in case you need to add or fix something down there. your call, but thought i'd mention it. or can you squeeze in on the side and get under there through your stud wall? doesn't need to be fancy if you make one in the floor even just cutting a piece out of the next sheet and screwing the small piece in and maybe putting in one more support if you know what i mean.

keep up the great work and thanks for taking the time to take and post pictures.

 

[shaner3721]

Coming along really nicely! Keep it up!

-Shane

 

[GLTHFJ60]

AWESOME JOB on the plumbing and framing.

i haven't used any of that plastic pipe yet. how do you like it? since you haven't done plumbing before i'll give you a solid congratulations for taking it on. also if you are moving gas lines did you test them before you seal up the floor for leaks?

speaking of the floor. i know there is not a very good chance of you ever needing to get in that crawl space, but i'd still put in a trap door in the room maybe under the dryer if you don't want it in the middle just in case you need to add or fix something down there. your call, but thought i'd mention it. or can you squeeze in on the side and get under there through your stud wall? doesn't need to be fancy if you make one in the floor even just cutting a piece out of the next sheet and screwing the small piece in and maybe putting in one more support if you know what i mean.

keep up the great work and thanks for taking the time to take and post pictures.

Thanks for the kind words sir

Pressure tested the gas line with soapy water to make sure no fittings had any leaks. I used plenty of pipe dope on the threads and made sure the fittings were good and tight. No leaks!!

The PEX was awesome to work with, I've got to say. I used some shark bite fittings to convert from copper to PEX. I picked up the PEX crimping tool and verified connections with the "GO-NO GO" gauge. It was a piece of cake! No leaks in any of the fittings first try. I really like how it's flexible (aka forgiving) yet it'll hold a bend if you put one in, as long as it's not too tight of a bend to kink. No reason to mess with sweating copper lines when you can crimp and be done! Looking at the pressure ratings of PEX, it looks like it might work for air lines as well. That would be cheap stuff to run for a shop air system. I need to look into that.

I had the thought of access to the crawlspace, but there's only 11.5" of height from the cement floor to the bottom of the joists. Are you thinking of a door in the floor in just one area or to access the entire space below? I was planning on putting tile down in this whole room, not sure a trap door of sorts would work with that plan.

Coming along really nicely! Keep it up!

-Shane

Thanks!!

 

[Jo Diesel]

A door or flip down pannel along the floor and it would be a good spot to store long stuff. Pipe lumber etc

 

[drivesitfar]

for storing long pipe and wood you might put an access door on the side of the stud wall and keep it closed so no critters can get in and under your entire house when you are not putting things in or taking stuff out.

here's a trap door i made in our laundry room and my entire house has several of these trap doors to get access to my crawl space. some are carpeted and this one is tile that i thought might help you. i think under the tile is a piece of tile, backer board so not super light, but easy to pull out or put back in with the 2 handles.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

A door or flip down pannel along the floor and it would be a good spot to store long stuff. Pipe lumber etc

That's a solid idea right there. Might make a little tray that goes up against the stem wall so that once I slide something into that space, nothing rolls outside of my reach. Good call

for storing long pipe and wood you might put an access door on the side of the stud wall and keep it closed so no critters can get in and under your entire house when you are not putting things in or taking stuff out.

here's a trap door i made in our laundry room and my entire house has several of these trap doors to get access to my crawl space. some are carpeted and this one is tile that i thought might help you. i think under the tile is a piece of tile, backer board so not super light, but easy to pull out or put back in with the 2 handles.

Do you have any pictures of the framing for that trap door? For some reason I'm having trouble visualizing how that would look.

 

[drivesitfar]

all you need to do is put in a couple 2x12's perpendicular to the ones you already have in place to sort of make a box and the door is the top of it. I'm too old and a little to fat to crawl in under my trap door to take a picture so hope this description helps.

if you want to make the door from an edge of the room then you only need to add one 2x12 and i'm guessing your joists are 12 or 16 inch on center so there should be plenty of room to screw in or nail the new 2x12 in place from the sides.