Gluing Aluminum

[AldeanFan]

I’m working on a prototype for a grill for my factory five cobra out of aluminum and was wondering if glue or epoxy would be an alternative to welding. I know bodyshops use adhesives for aluminum repairs.

Im not setup for aluminum welding and don’t know how. Obviously the garagejournal solution would be to buy a tig and learn to use it but that’s way out of the budget.

Here’s the prototype I made out of foam board just so see how it looks and figure out dimensions and spacing.

If I can make the notches tight it won’t take much to hold it together.

Does anyone have experience or know anything about glueing or epoxying aluminum?





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[cvairwerks]

Using adhesives with aluminum takes fastidious cleanliness and prep work. You've got to sand to a good finish and then clean to a water break surface. You then have just a couple hours to make the glue joint before you would have to clean it again. Our specs at work give us 8 hours from the last of the cleaning, until the joint has to be made.

 

[e36jon]

I worked on a project recently and was surprised at how far non-aerospace bonding of aluminum has come. There are options that require much less prep and would probably work from a strength perspective. We had candidates in epoxy, urethane and acrylic that would all work for the project.

I see your issues as having more to do with assembly once the adhesive is applied (Sliding parts past one another isn't great for keeping the adhesive where you want it.) and then final finishing (Dealing with squeeze-out is non trivial.). We had joints that would end up being on visible surfaces so we were looking at adhesives that could be sanded & painted, of which there were several. Many automotive body parts are put together this way now instead of using lead & brazing.

Anyway, I don't see you wanting to live after trying to finish all of those corners in your design. Maybe redesign with a few bonded junctions more unbonded ones? I seem to remember seeing a number of older egg-crate grilles done this way.

Here are the candidate adhesives we were looking at:

3M DP8805NS+, DP8810NS+, DP8825NS
Lord 400 series
Lord 850-852
Loctite-Speedbonder h8500

 

[RPH]

Lord Adhesive is the major structural supplier in the automotive industry. Aluminum stamping sin the factory are coated with draw compound. The adhesive will work through this. Check out Versa lock from them. Anaerobic so it cure without oxygen. Heat, low temp -200*f for 10 seconds and the joint is good for handling strength. Conveyors and racking gets them moved for assembly. After 24-48 hours part it is permanently set, temperature depending. Seen the metal tear before the joint lets go.

 

[tfinniii]

You could check out low temperature aluminum brazing.

 

[LXCam]

Have you considered having that laser cut out of plate?

 

[Glemon]

You may have already done this, but lots of aluminum egg crate stock available if you Google it. Used for ventilation grills and lighting. Looks like you have done a lot of work and maybe have explored it already. Just throwing it out there.

 

[58Yeoman]

Back in the 80's, I built a dune buggy that looked sorta like a Model T. It had a space for a grille, so I went to the big box store (whatever that was at that time), and bought a 2x4' chrome grill for suspended ceiling lights. I cut out what I needed and put it in. The squares were smaller though, maybe 1/2".

 

[theoldwizard1]

Using adhesives with aluminum takes fastidious cleanliness and prep work.

The stuff they use on F150s is expensive as heck and is used very sparingly and only in places where rivets will NOT provide enough structural bonding. They adhesive requires a reasonable amount of flat contact are, not just a glob here and there.

Check the 3M web site for "panel bonding adhesive". Then check your wallet !

 

[e36jon]

Here are some inspiring (I hope!) links for you (I just Googled "Ferrari egg crate grille restoration"):

http://tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html?http://tomyang.net/cars/grille.htm

https://www.jefflilly.com/build-tips/egg-crate-grill/

https://hotrod.sites.enthusiastnetwork.com/articles/0801kc-hot-to-make-an-egg-crate-grille/#0801kc_13_z-hot_to_make_an_egg_crate_grille

 

[Slednut]

You could look into Lords 406/19GB, it's an acrylic adhesive.

 

[Dustball]

You may have already done this, but lots of aluminum egg crate stock available if you Google it. Used for ventilation grills and lighting. Looks like you have done a lot of work and maybe have explored it already. Just throwing it out there.

https://www.1800ceiling.com/product...g-crate-1-thick-1?_pos=7&_sid=0d36f5466&_ss=r

 

[cvairwerks]

The stuff they use on F150s is expensive as heck and is used very sparingly and only in places where rivets will NOT provide enough structural bonding. They adhesive requires a reasonable amount of flat contact are, not just a glob here and there.

Check the 3M web site for "panel bonding adhesive". Then check your wallet !

We use stuff from Henkel and Click-Bond for aerospace applications. Some of the stuff I use is well over $100 an ounce....It also has properties that make it overkill for most automotive use. At 40K feet, you can't pull over and get out when things break...

 

[AldeanFan]

Thanks for all the great advice!
It sounds like glue isn’t going to be cost effective or appropriate to do in my little garage.

I like the idea of the light/ceiling panel but it might be a problem finding them in Canada.


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[Showkey]

Thick Isocyanate with spray activating. 2P10 Amazon

 

[AldeanFan]

Thick Isocyanate with spray activating. 2P10 Amazon

Super glue?


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[brownsmustang]

I would try what this guy used.

 

[AldeanFan]

I would try what this guy used.

This might be the winner


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[Citation]

What about brazing instead of gluing? No personal experience but might we a worthy alternative.

Edit: Looks like Brownsmustang suggested it already

 

[MoonRise]

Sometimes its better (and easier, and faster, and less expensive) to just BUY the item instead of making it completely yourself.

So instead of taking a LOT of strips of aluminum and cutting and notching them and then turning all those cut and notched strips into an eggcrate panel (which you still have to 'connect', as you originally asked here in this thread), how about just BUYING an aluminum eggcrate panel?

If only there were some way to try and find a place or supplier, maybe electronically instead of using a telegraph or smoke signals?

Few seconds with google turns up 461,000 results for "aluminum eggcrate".

Including the aforementioned (aforelinked? )

https://www.1800ceiling.com/collections/aluminum-egg-crate-louvers

(no connection to them, no endorsement for or against, literally just a google search result)

Or here:

http://americanlouver.com/products/eggcrate-core/aluminum-eggcrate

Or here:

https://edee.com/fbseries.htm

https://www.primelights.com/product...MIsIr1v_n66wIVB7LICh2tfAJYEAQYBCABEgIdEvD_BwE

https://diffuserspecialist.com/fluorescent-light-diffuser-products/eggcrates-louvers/

https://www.liteline.com/20000875-master_al50

etc, etc, etc.



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of the FF Cobra. Classic Cobra blue, eh? Guardsman Blue, or Pacific Blue, or Midnight Metallic Blue?

 

[purplezr2]

Thanks for all the great advice!
It sounds like glue isn’t going to be cost effective or appropriate to do in my little garage.

I like the idea of the light/ceiling panel but it might be a problem finding them in Canada.


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You might be able to get Lord 406 adhesive somewhat cheap through your Polaris dealer.

It is used for bonding snowmobile chassis

 

[MikeF2316]

I will also suggest brazing. Biggest problem with that is learning to keep the temperature down!

 

[Hank11]

Chopped pieces of thin square tubing would give lots of surface area for bonding. Maybe 1" pieces? Clean with a scotchbrite and some alcohol or lacquer thinner and slap them together in a row. When you have enough rows, start stacking the rows.

 

[Slednut]

You might be able to get Lord 406 adhesive somewhat cheap through your Polaris dealer.


I don't know about the price but the Polaris kit is available on Amazon. It still comes from the Polaris store.

 

[AldeanFan]

You might be able to get Lord 406 adhesive somewhat cheap through your Polaris dealer.


I don't know about the price but the Polaris kit is available on Amazon. It still comes from the Polaris store.

Out of the budget


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[CraigStu]

A small bead of JBWeld across the back edge of each joint might also work. I really like that aluminum weld w/ the propane torch but the heat is sure to leave a discoloration on the aluminum which could be difficult to get rid of if you plain to leave it natural finish.

 

[brandonsmash]

I have a client who requires mid-strength aluminum bonding without welding for a certain decorative application.

After experimenting with a dozen commercially-available epoxies and glues, the one that worked the best was plain old JB Weld.

 

[e36jon]

A couple of things:

Maybe this thread should be in the fabrication area? I suspect some folks only go there vs. this main thread so you are missing some advice.

I know the thread title is 'gluing aluminum', but, using staking (Or some other deformation of the base material.) on the back-side may be enough. That's how some of the vintage car grilles seem to be done as well as the light-fixture diffusors.

I failed to ask and didn't see what the intended finish is. That obviously matters a bunch as not all of the suggestions so far play well with all of the potential finish options...

Lastly, if you decide to stick with the laser-cut aluminum pieces, you may be able to add small "X" shaped bits to the back side to anchor and reinforce the joints. You may not even need to do every one. These could be 'printed' plastic parts. Or maybe you print a 'frame', and anchor everything from the outboard edges? In both examples the join between aluminum and whatever the plastic piece(s) are could be optimized for adhesive. The assembly and bonding could also happen after finishing the flat aluminum parts.

Anyway, just some possible work-arounds for you.

 

[Slednut]

Out of the budget


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I hear you talken, on Amazon it's $86 but the gun is $40.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O7WKUGQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[K13]

You can get the adhesives at any auto body supply store in Canada for way less that Amazon. You can also get ones that don't require a specialized gun from companies like Evercoat. The problem is all of these adhesives need a minimal amount of product to work that is controlled through clamping and microspheres in the adhesive to make sure all of the adhesive doesn't get squeezed out. You are not going to be able to achieve that on your egg crate design. Add to that most are a dark colour and will stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[K13]

I hear you talken, on Amazon it's $86 but the gun is $40.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O7WKUGQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

That's U.S. So add about $50 in shipping and fees plus about 30% exchange rate and you are probably looking at about $250 Cdn.

 

[purplezr2]

Out of the budget


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Ya the list a kit and tube on the snowmobile parts list.

I haven't found the difference between the two other then large cost difference. Wonder if the kit includes the mixing gun, and the other is just the glue.


I work for the OEM, but haven't had a chance to check it out