Gluing Urethane to Steel

[brittf]

Has anyone glued sheet urethane to plain or powder coated steel?

I made a three inch riser for my floor jack as I've encountered times when I cannot jack a car high enough to do what I need to do under it (such as install a transmission). I want to glue a piece of sheet urethane to it to protect the painted surfaces. Has anyone done this successfully? What adhesive did you use? I spoke with the urethane manufacturer and they indicated to scuff the urethane and then use super glue. When I think of super glue I think of the little tubes and gluing my fingers together.


This is my jack riser and the urethane pad I want to glue to it.


I also have these attachments that I bolt to my universal jack stands that I made. I want to attach urethane to these as well so as not to scratch the frame of my car once it's painted. I'll drill out a hole in the urethane to get to the flathead bolt.


I found this glue on line. It says that it will adhere to HDPE and they have a YouTube video showing same. Has anyone ever tried this? HDPE has similar "slippery" characteristics as urethane.

Thank you for your help.


Britt

 

[Hawk]

The adhesive should work, but you should sand the faces to get a toothy feel to the HDPE before gluing.

 

[theoldwizard1]

"Gluing" ANY dissimilar materials together is a problem !!

All solid expand and contract with heat/cold. Some a lot, some, not so much and this is the problem. Normal outside temperature changes will cause any "bonding agent" to fail, over time, unless it can flex.

3M makes special double sided bonding "tape" that has a flexible layer in between. Some one here will know the number.

Adhering ANYTHING to HDPE is also VERY difficult. It is almost like trying to apply glue to Teflon !!

 

[theoldwizard1]

It says that it will adhere to HDPE and they have a YouTube video showing same. Has anyone ever tried this? HDPE has similar "slippery" characteristics as urethane.

Time and temperature !

Many years ago the place where I worked had a bunch of EFI sensor from a new vendor. We attached them to some string and dunked them in ice water for about 10-15 minutes. Then in the hottest tap water we had. Back and forth. Within less than 8 hours, every one of them failed.

Good luck !!

 

[strength_and_power]

Looks like you could mechanically fasten with a nut and bolt, countersinking the urethane so the bolt is below the surface.

 

[Rockett69]

I"ve had a decent amout of success with RTV ultra black in such a situation. My rubber pad wouldn't stay on my floor jack. It doesn't react to heat like a typical glue. It won't dissolve with anything that may find its way onto it (Fuel/transmission fluid etc). And if it starts to come loose, its an easy clean up and re-apply. Good luck!

 

[astroracer]

Look at Marine GOOP. Meijer's, Walmart, etc. This is some tacky stuff and may do the job on roughed up urethane.
Mark

 

[Jack Olsen]

I'd go mechanical. Shy of drilling, though -- I'd try Gorilla Glue (polyurethane) or one of the 3M structural epoxies.

 

[benjamintmiller]

Why would you not do what the manufacturer recommended? Surely they know how to bond urethane better than anyone here...

 

[rlitman]

"Gluing" ANY dissimilar materials together is a problem !!

All solid expand and contract with heat/cold. Some a lot, some, not so much and this is the problem. Normal outside temperature changes will cause any "bonding agent" to fail, over time, unless it can flex.

3M makes special double sided bonding "tape" that has a flexible layer in between. Some one here will know the number.

Adhering ANYTHING to HDPE is also VERY difficult. It is almost like trying to apply glue to Teflon !!

Huh? Urethane is not going to have an adhesion problem from dissimilar thermal coefficients of expansion because it is WAY too flexible. The forces from the differences in expansion will be way to small to effect bonding; quite unlike they would be if both materials were harder.

He's asking about urethane, not HDPE.

---------------

Ok, back to the topic at hand:

Mr Sticky makes some of the best epoxy I have used. But I would not suggest epoxy in this use.

Urethane adhesive bonds VERY well to clean urethane. It also bonds well to painted steel. Not as well directly to metal (though perhaps well enough).
Still, I'd suggest sanding the steel down to clean metal (this step is critical in any case), and then painting the metal with a good primer first and allowing it the proper amount of drying time. Then scuff up the side of the urethane to be glued with some sandpaper, and clean the uretane with a solvent (either pure acetone or denatured alcohol would be my choice), to remove any possible release agent contamination.

Windshield adhesive is urethane adhesive and is one good example of this.
Urethane construction adhesive would work too (such as PL Premium), and is much cheaper than windshield adhesive, but cures more slowly. There are urethane marine adhesives that are no better, but are more expensive...

Urethane glue that does not foam would be good too, so not Gorilla wood glue, but they do make non-foaming versions that would work, such as this:
http://www.gorillatough.com/white-gorilla-glue

 

[rlitman]

I'd go mechanical. Shy of drilling, though -- I'd try Gorilla Glue (polyurethane) or one of the 3M structural epoxies.

My only issue with Gorilla glue is that it foams and expands as it cures. You'd need to cut a block of wood to cover the urethane, and clamp it firmly in place to keep the glue line as thin as possible for the first 24-48 hours. Allowing the glue to expand as it foams and sets will kill over 90% of of it's strength.

 

[EdT]

Given that the urethane will flex some when loaded with the weight of whatever you're jacking up, I'd suggest some kind of adhesive that can flex when the urethane deforms. That would leave out adhesives that are, generally, rigid when they are cured like Gorilla glue and most epoxies. There is not going to be a whole lot of force trying to pull the urethane off the steel when in use and none when just sitting around so the adhesive does not need to be incredibly strong. If it was me, I'd use double sided carpet tape. Cheap, easy to apply, no curing or dripping, easily redone if it fails or changed out for something else if it doesn't work out.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I"ve had a decent amout of success with RTV ultra black in such a situation. My rubber pad wouldn't stay on my floor jack. It doesn't react to heat like a typical glue.

When bonding dis-similar materials, you are better of using the MINIMUM amount of adhesive that you can get away with several small to medium "dots"
are better than "coating" the whole part. (Minimize the difference in thermal expansion,)

 

[rlitman]

Given that the urethane will flex some when loaded with the weight of whatever you're jacking up, I'd suggest some kind of adhesive that can flex when the urethane deforms...

I hear you, and your argument makes some sense, but I disagree a little.
The steel is not going to flex (significantly). The adhesive is bonded to the steel. If the adhesive is firm, it just means that part of urethane most intimately connected with the steel is not going to flex, and the movement will be trapped within the urethane (where you want it), rather than at the bond layer (where you do not want it). So I'm sticking with my recommendation for a firmer adhesive, BUT that only works if the adhesive has a high peel strength on urethane (which only urethane adhesive does; not epoxy of super glue).

But, if we were talking about bonding something less conformal than urethane to steel, I would agree strongly with you and theoldwizard1 about the need for using an adhesive layer with more stretch-ability. In such a case, I would recommend VHB tape. The kind with the gray foam center layer (not the kind with the thin clear center layer).

 

[EdT]

The VHB tapes are very good, but pretty spendy. If I had some, I'd use it vs. the carpet tape, but the carpet tape is <1/10 the money (and I have some). The foam core VHB is going to fail in the foam layer in tension assuming it is well bonded to the two substrates. Of course, this application will be unlikely to ever see tension so probably does not matter. Again, in this situation, I don't feel that the bond strength is too important. But, that's just me and I've been wrong before. If I was building an airplane, I would feel differently. 3-M has some adhesive for "difficult to bond surfaces" like PE and urethane, but it, too, is expensive and requires a special dispenser. Super glue can be very good for bonding RUBBER to metal, but I have no idea how it works with urethane.

 

[mrolds88]

What about the urethane that is used to put in late model windshields?

 

[cat06]

use 3m windshield installation urethane

 

[kbs2244]

Remember the only stress this is going to see is compression.

 

[gt1guy]

Your fab table is showing you how to attach it. Counter sink a bolt into it.

 

[kkroger]

About a hundred or so High Tack Contact cements that would work, either way you will have to rough up the urethane... I had a vendor making a brake pad for a machine at my old employer at one point and they kept gluing the rubber pad on the Chrome Plated Steel Backer using the incorrect method (print called for "Vulcanizing" the pad to the backer) They stuck it on with contact cement, they showed up in a box with 8 rubber pads and 8 steel backers coated with contact cement... Rejected material went back to them they "Scored" the Rubber sheeting, reapplied the Contact adhesive and sent it back in... the Rubber was peeling off when they arrived but had not come completely off yet...
Glue stuck to the steel just fine but the rubber not so much... I don't recall if they EVER sent any in that worked...

 

[sanddan]

I would use 3M weather strip adhesive. It is designed to attach flexible material to steel. I used this to attach 1/2" thick neoprene pads to a couple of jack stands and it has worked great for over 10 years and counting.

 

[kerrynzl]

Bostik make a hybrid urethane adhesive specifically for metals.

So the urethane part is already compatible. All you need to do is "bare metal" the steel and it is on for life.

I have tested it to destruction on "hot dipped" galvanised steel and powder coated steel, and it will pull the galv and powder coating off the steel.

you can get it here
http://www.ellsworth.com/products/b...yl-modified-polymer-sealant-gray-290-ml-tube/

My race car uses this to stay together and I also use it to glue alloy trailer decks onto steel frames

 

[DpSyChO]

What about the urethane that is used to put in late model windshields?

This or drill/countersink/bolt as mentioned above is what I was thinking of as I read down the replies.

 

[rustyjames]

I would use 3M weather strip adhesive. It is designed to attach flexible material to steel. I used this to attach 1/2" thick neoprene pads to a couple of jack stands and it has worked great for over 10 years and counting.

That would be my choice too.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Urethane that feels slick has a slip agent in it. So things won't stick or drag when they brush into it.

Make sure yours is not this type. As you can't sand it off, some times the more friction applied. The slicker it will feel.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[brittf]

I finally finished this project. I want to thank everyone that took the time to read my post and respond. There were a lot of good ideas and approaches. I did look at a few of them.

Maybe I'm stuck on the term "two-part epoxy". Maybe I liked the statement "Polybonder" on the packaging. Maybe it was the statement "Structural Bonding of Polyethylene!" Anyway, I went with the Mr. Sticky's product.


I bought the larger tube as it utilizes a nozzle that mixes the epoxy as its applied. I also purchased the kit that allows you to use a standard caulking gun to apply it.


Here it is loaded in your everyday, run of the mill, Home Depot caulking gun.


I used 80 grit paper on a small DA sander to rough up the urethane. I used P80 sandpaper to rough up the powder coating on the brackets.


I cleaned the urethane with acetone. I used a solvent based wax and grease remover on the brackets.


I laid out two beads of the epoxy. It is dispensed pre-mixed through the pre-mixing tubes.


I spread it with a tongue depressor.


Using scrap steel to spread the load I clamped them under slight pressure until the epoxy cured.


Finished product.


In place on the jack stand.

I'm pretty happy with the results. Let's see if it holds up. If I have any failures I'll report back on this forum.

Again, thank you for all your help.


Britt

 

[rlitman]

Nice work!

 

[hotdogstand]

Time and temperature !

Many years ago the place where I worked had a bunch of EFI sensor from a new vendor. We attached them to some string and dunked them in ice water for about 10-15 minutes. Then in the hottest tap water we had. Back and forth. Within less than 8 hours, every one of them failed.

Good luck !!

heat cycling will destroy anything though, especially as the temperature range increases (scalding to freezing in your case). There is a light bulb used in a firehouse somewhere that has only been turned off a couple of times in 100+ years. Because it is always on, and therefore doesn't "cycle," it is able to function over a century after production.
Here, I found a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light

OP: those are some nice stands. I have considered doing something similar to bridge the gap between my low-pro 3 ton jack and my lifted Silverado. I just might have to borrow some of your R&D... (thanks in advance!)

 

[jask]

rlitman has it, use a urethane adhesive and scour both glue surfaces. I use one at work that is made by the same people that make the repair glue for plastic bumpers and it is great but requires a 2 part epoxy gun to use, windshield glue is great and if you only need a small amout "shoe goo" is an excellent polyurethane that will stick to and bond damn near anything.
As an aside, almost nothing sticks to polyethylene or HDPE, that is why it is used as a wear surface and liner in so many low pressure applications.

edit: OOOPS!! just saw the pictures, looks good !!

 

[kerrynzl]

I'm not completely convinced with epoxy, it is sometimes too brittle and a couple of cycles of compression and it will let go.
So keep us updated as to the end results [long term]

I just did a gluing job this weekend, and I used small pieces of MIG wire as a spacer between the 2 pieces so it wouldn't squeeze the glue out when I clamped them.

That method worked great

 

[dadsEH]

Anyone want to have a wild *** guess what is used to adhere body side mouldings to your car doors?

 

[fnieto]

3M double side tape.

 

[bsaint]

3M double side tape.

Thats what Im guessing

 

[bulletpruf]

Good tech here. Found this thread while searching for a good product to glue rubber pads to bare aluminum and painted metal on my Alfa Romeo for a new fuel tank install.

I ended up using the same basic method and similar product at BrittF - Permatex 2 part 5 minute epoxy, applied after I scuffed the rubber with 80 grit. Working well so far.

 

[Paco Pena]

All these posts and no one said duct tape.

Paco