Burgerkong
Well-known member
Looks like GMC is using a CMan box whereas Ford has Lista?
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GMC or Ford? Hmmmm...
- Thread starter Burgerkong
- Start date
Looks like GMC is using a CMan box whereas Ford has Lista?
dieselmike
Well-known member
ford: built without your tax dollars.
dont get me started about the volt...
dont get me started about the volt...
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
lista is now part of the chinese stanley syndicate
OP
Burgerkong
Well-known member
Sadly. And the blingy wheels turn me off...
Super Sport
Well-known member
Judging by the pictures alone, I doubt Ford spent any less money on their setup than GM. Ford just took a more simplistic approach.
OP
Burgerkong
Well-known member
Simplicity over flashy anyday, their Ecoboost is, in all actuality, a great engine.
Mazdaratti3
Well-known member
I would take a lista over a cman box any day and the same goes for the vehicles
ishiboo
Well-known member
It's called marketing. GM just reported record profits, which go to its shareholders in the end. Guess who that is? Perhaps it's time to admit the bankruptcy and cost-trimming is working. Obviously some people lost benefits/jobs/etc. in the process, but without GM there would have been a lot more losses.
Ford has some expensive pre-built table legs and butcher block tops, as well as a Lista. GM has some spray-painted shelves with desktops, rental trusses, some CHEAP chairs, a $30 Craftsman stool and a Craftsman box. They both probably spent about the same.
Neither says anything about either company, it's all just what marketing felt like doing on this particular day.
cashishift
Well-known member
Yet GM stills make inferior half ton trucks its essentially the same truck it was in 2009... Ford is a heads and tails better truck.... heck even Dodge is crusing past GM in alot of ways.
I'll take my pickup with the no bail out option
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cashishift
Well-known member
one of my best buds, who is a GM lifer.. will receive his 2012 F150 next week because GM simply cannot compete for the same money
He would have had to get a 3/4 ton GM, and even then... the interior is stuck in 2009 and the V8 option gets terrible gas mileage and the Ford makes more HP (same torque) with less displacement.
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That Lista box alone probably cost more than all the equipment in that GM booth combined.
wreckerman5357
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2011
- Messages
- 373
I am a Ford guy through and through, that's all I have ever owned. I have three Fords right now. However, driving a wrecker with the Duramax has turned me on to Chevy. If I was to buy a diesel pickup right now it would be a GM. If I was buying a gas pickup, which will probably be the case, it would be an F250 with whatver the biggest gas motor I could get is.
cashishift
Well-known member
I can't get past the GM interiors.. and the diesel tail pipe is unattractive.
The gasser ford only comes with the 6.2 now.. 411 hp.
The only other option is the diesel.
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
they push the duramax in 2500
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
more FIRESTARTIN !!
ishiboo
Well-known member
Hard to fight the UAW, that was one of the problems.
This was one quarter of one year, I think the overall plan was a bit longer-term
Anyway, the point was not only owning the shares, but to save the majority of the entire supply chain. This is the whole point between TIF districts, tax breaks, government incentives, etc... even though there's an outlay to the company, it's on average made back and then some by the jobs/demand created.
Unfortunately for GM... while their US division made record profits...their european and South America divisions....ROYALLY lost their arses.....
Scape goat? That's basically what bankruptcy is... some creditors get the shaft. Or at least part of a shaft
They COULD NOT fill their financial obligations, so they would have been forced into bankruptcy and split up to satisfy creditors as best as possible anyway.
Sorry. Now that that's over, I feel a lot worse for the people with private pensions/etc. that lost them which were supposedly secure. Perhaps looking at the stock market from the outside you don't understand, but it's a RISK you have to manage. If you were carefully divested you would not have lost your savings because one company failed due to the economy and it's massive financial obligations to the unions/pension/health plans/etc. which were conceived and implemented during better times. It *****, but it is what it is. Hindsight is 20/20, and I guarantee you there were MANY substantially smarter minds than yours making decisions at GM
I wouldn't know, Daimler got out of its last 20% stake of Chrysler back in 2009.
Chrysler/Dodge vehicles would have been last on my list for the Big 3 until recent times, IMO it looks like they're producing a lot better products than they were in the 80s, 90s, or 2000s.
Biased is right. You can bet the Big 3 have very similar accounting practices, as most corporations do.
If you're broke you're broke, you do not have an option but to declare bankruptcy or it will be done for you, by the government or your shareholders. Ford was not that far from needing TARP funds as well, I think you have an assumption they would not have done the same thing in the same situation - they would have. It's basic business.
When the economy tanked, Ford Credit took the most - like 13 or 14 billion in federal funds - to keep the loans flowing to keep people having easy access to credit to purchase Ford vehicles.
Coupe302
Active member
I love my fords, I also have an Audi A4 which is pretty reliable and fun to drive. Those are the two companies I will always buy from.
ishiboo
Well-known member
BTW, previous post makes it seem like I'm blaming the unions/pension plans/etc. for all GM's woes... not at all. Those were mistakes made by GM to begin with, and only some of the factors at hand.
Walterchang
Well-known member
Ford an GM both grew to larger which caused there respective brands to suffer. It's a shame really Mercury and Saturn were fine cars for years. But when GM and Ford started to producing the same car just rebadged it caused a brand to lose its identity. Even though over the years they were successful it became a financial burden to market and produce the same car across several brands.
The pensions and health care issues should have been foreseen by GM management years before it became a problem.
If you want to point fingers at the issue blame the health care industry. Don't blame the workers they get paid **** in comparison to the CEO's.
Pensions are a wonderful thing to have but in today's global economy it just is not feasible. People live longer, markets fluctuate, health care costs are out of control.
That being said I have owned both Ford and GM vehicles. I am torn on my next truck I love the Raptor, which I can not even afford, but I do like the GM styling.
The pensions and health care issues should have been foreseen by GM management years before it became a problem.
If you want to point fingers at the issue blame the health care industry. Don't blame the workers they get paid **** in comparison to the CEO's.
Pensions are a wonderful thing to have but in today's global economy it just is not feasible. People live longer, markets fluctuate, health care costs are out of control.
That being said I have owned both Ford and GM vehicles. I am torn on my next truck I love the Raptor, which I can not even afford, but I do like the GM styling.
47ford - 1.5ton
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- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Thats blatently just false...
They were given a line of credit.. but never even tapped it...
(Sorry US of A never gave a penny to any ford or division of ford....)
The US Govt basically gave ford a credit card and no purchases were made....
(please next time do your homework before puking 'facts')
You mentioned chrysler and its 'quality product'
Another opinion
Fact says otherwise.... no, none, zilch brand made the top 20 reliability....
Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge in that order were 21, 23,24......
That 'list' is generated for problems per 100 vehicles.... (again..statistics.. not 'feelings')
JD Power and Assoc...
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
us dept of energy gave ford 5.9 billion ..as requested
ford govt motors
http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display/id/18900
GM is kicking Ford's **** in sales ..better product
ford govt motors
http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display/id/18900
GM is kicking Ford's **** in sales ..better product
47ford - 1.5ton
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Sure, there was a GM bailout. No, I don't agree with it. However, the fact of the matter is that even though taxpayers are on the hook for the bailout and GM stock would have to reach 58 bucks to break even, GM (as a now profitable business) is paying taxes. Each worker there is paying taxes. Thus, even if the stock never reaches $58 per share (which I doubt it will - I think the stock is too heavily manipulated to let that happen right now) that bailout is still slowly getting paid back.
As for the bastards at Mae/Mac and friends, my student loan interest rate nearly tripled.
As for the bastards at Mae/Mac and friends, my student loan interest rate nearly tripled.
GoBlue
Well-known member
I support all three American auto makers. I have freinds and family that work for all of them. That being said i did not support the bailout nor do i support any government bailout. As for Ford vs. G.M...get a life. Any mechanic worth his salt should be able to point out that every auo maker is capible of making a good product and capible of making complete garbage.
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lutter94
Well-known member
Ford all the way. I have a fusion, mustang, and a f150......
allinon72
Well-known member
Honestly I don't see how one comes to that conclusion. The new Ford lineup puts anything GM has to offer to shame. Trucks, cars, fleet, literally every vehicle.
when you get rid of billions $$$ of their overhead accumulated over the years.
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
which is the 3rd one? Toyota?
Lol at this thread, I once used to get into the ford/chevy debates. However as mentioned above all the major automakers build quality vehicles. It is highly subjective as to who is best, end of the day they are all nuts and bolts just arranged differently, the reason there are many types is the same as why we have many varieties of food, PERSONAL PREFERENCE. That said I drive a suburban and have over the years driven mostly GM products as well as spent the majority of my career in GM dealerships, however if I were in the market for a new truck it would most likely be an ecoboost ford. Buy what you like.
briandrex
Well-known member
I bleed blue! I have a 2011 Ford F350 Diesel and a 2003 Expedition. Knock on wood...I've had no major issues with any Ford's including my two previous trucks. I was a fan of GM until the bailout so at this point I will not give my money to them. I"m a business owner myself and if I mess up and spend more than I take in I"m out of business and no one will help me or my 25 employees.
It's funny, I basically feel like the gov't is saying my employees don't matter because we are smaller. However our country is supposedly always looking out for the little guy and middle class. Makes no sense to me and the last time I checked common sense does work.
Anybody wanna buy a Volt???
It's funny, I basically feel like the gov't is saying my employees don't matter because we are smaller. However our country is supposedly always looking out for the little guy and middle class. Makes no sense to me and the last time I checked common sense does work.
Anybody wanna buy a Volt???
wafrederick
Well-known member
I don't see that ecoboost engine not holding up called blown up.Is a V6 engine with two turbo chargers,not a good idea.Head people at Ford did morgage everything they bought during the bailout.I would love to take over Ford's engineering department,teach them not to everything the hard way and this is what Ford does 100% of the time.Get rid of the studs on their torque converters too,nothing but a pain the *** to line up.Ford says they have the best selling truck,wrong.If sales of Chevy and GMC trucks are added together,GM has the best selling truck.
ishiboo
Well-known member
Thats blatently just false...
They were given a line of credit.. but never even tapped it...
(Sorry US of A never gave a penny to any ford or division of ford....)
The US Govt basically gave ford a credit card and no purchases were made....
(please next time do your homework before puking 'facts')
You mentioned chrysler and its 'quality product'
Another opinion
Fact says otherwise.... no, none, zilch brand made the top 20 reliability....
Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge in that order were 21, 23,24......
That 'list' is generated for problems per 100 vehicles.... (again..statistics.. not 'feelings')
JD Power and Assoc...
No, Ford Credit sold the government 15.9 billion of commercial paper. This is an investment by the government.
I never mentioned Chrysler's quality products. I said it looks like they are producing a lot better products than they did before. JD Power is just one metric, and a marketing one at that.
I'm sure they still are lagging behind Ford/GM, they're just better than they were before. And they actually had some hits - bringing the "Hemi" marketing ploy in, the 300, and now maybe the 200.
ishiboo
Well-known member
I bleed blue! I have a 2011 Ford F350 Diesel and a 2003 Expedition. Knock on wood...I've had no major issues with any Ford's including my two previous trucks. I was a fan of GM until the bailout so at this point I will not give my money to them. I"m a business owner myself and if I mess up and spend more than I take in I"m out of business and no one will help me or my 25 employees.
It's funny, I basically feel like the gov't is saying my employees don't matter because we are smaller. However our country is supposedly always looking out for the little guy and middle class. Makes no sense to me and the last time I checked common sense does work.
Anybody wanna buy a Volt???
I'd love a Volt... it's the only interesting hybrid/electric car to date. It combines an all-electric vehicle with a backup gasoline engine for extended trips. Perfect! The Cruze body is leagues ahead of the former GM el-cheapo models.
The "government" was not saying your employees don't matter, the theory was (no matter whether it was right or wrong) that if GM failed, due to the massive size of its supply chain, employees and past employees, and its overall impact on the economy, it would be cheaper to invest in it than to not invest. A supply chain goes a long distance - while Delphi isn't small, it could very well have suppliers who are small and suppliers suppliers who are small, that's why it's a "supply chain".
venturesomerite
Well-known member
Honestly I would but another Ford truck with out looking at any other brand.
I had a Dodge truck, which was the worst pile of **** I've ever seen. Never owned a chevy truck, but I just like the styling of the Fords better anyways.
I had a Dodge truck, which was the worst pile of **** I've ever seen. Never owned a chevy truck, but I just like the styling of the Fords better anyways.
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47ford - 1.5ton
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Funny we talk about sales numbers without specifics?
Best selling vehicle in the US is? (Its the same one thats been the best selling truck for 34 years)...
You've out done yourself this time,your first sentence contains two negatives, which creates a positive for Ford. I'd love to see you take over their engineering dept, you'd get laughed at all the way to the parking lot, including by the security guards.
Adam McLaughlin
Well-known member
I own a 1988 Turbo Coupe, a 1992 T-Bird, a 1992 Ranger w/ 357 c.i. V8, a 1990 Mustang w/ 4.6 4 Valve....
And I would buy another one tomorrow
Adam
And I would buy another one tomorrow
Adam