Good all around Arc Welder

[MDK22]

So I have this awesome friend who is learning welding. She offered to teach me when she finishes school for it. She is very smart and learns quickly so I have no doubt that she will have it mastered in no time.

I am going to want to weld aluminum, cast (aluminum, steel, iron), and steel. IE cylinder heads, engine blocks, roll cages, etc. I know there is a fair amount to it and welding cast is damn near impossible.

I believe my wall outlet is 15amp but, may be 20amp. It is on a fuse circuit not a breaker (old house). 120 volt 60hz American standard A/C.

So what would be a good arc welder that is capable of doing those kinds of welding. Obv with all things I would like to do it without breaking the bank and I am thinking a used unit. At the same time reliability of the device and not setting my house on fire (attached garage) is important. I have no qualms about maybe taking apart a unit and cleaning it out / replacing parts if need be to get a good functioning unit. I also wouldn't mind renting one just to learn on till i can find a good quality cheap unit.



Info about my house and electrical routing:
I also do not have high amperage service I only have 120amp service and the fuse panel that powers the addition and garage is 50 of the 120amps. It has no open slots left in either panel.

I am guessing it will take roughly $3k-$5k to run a new line from the pole and install a new panel in the garage, install conduit/boxes/outlets and probably $500 to update the small fuse panel in the house to a small breaker box. If I have to install a new box I would probably have it setup for dual or tri phase if needed.

So if I could avoid that it would be awesome. Especially because I have been out of work for a month and probably wont be back in for another month if i still have a job.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Miller Trailblazer or similar.

 

[McLean]

I'm assuming that you mean arc/stick welding? if so, why?

If you're new to welding, I would recommend MIG over stick any day.

 

[Superbec]

do some research first, what you want/need doesn't exist

 

[1950mercury]

It sounds like you have no clue about anything that you posted. Just go back to picking things up and putting them down

 

[lazer50]

Ill try to give you a reasonable answer.the first post mentions a trail blazer welder.thats a gas engine/generator type welder.although its a welder a expensive machine.a beginning welder will likely have better results with a mig/wire feed machine.a good welder is going to operate on 240 volt circuit.and it doesnt sound like you have that available.you can buy mig welders that operate on 120v but your not going to weld anything you mentioned with it.welding cylinder heads and cast iron is an area for tig welding.so what you need to do is research welding basics! What kind of welding do beginners start with.what kind of machine will that need.what type wiring will i need to hook up properly?how much is all this going to cost?some of this stuff you can google.you can ask on here.but i suggest you go to welding web.com and join thats your from a to z place to get questions answered about welding.

 

[cherokeejack]

YouTube is your friend!!!
Look up:
Weldingtipsandtricks
ChuckE2009
Weld.com

Watch a whole bunch of videos from them and your mind will be stuffed with the wealth of knowledge that these guys possess!

 

[trackwelder]

I would buy a 120-220 inverter machine to start out with the goals you have. if you want to attempt some of the projects listed I would see about attending some welding classes to help you along.

 

[theoldwizard1]

First, you can not really weld cast iron (like cylinder heads or blocks). You might be able to braze them, but it is not the same.

Old school arc welding is a dying art. If has its places (heavy steel) but is not what most home owners want.

If you can not get 240V @ 20-30A, forget about it ! You can buy a used gasoline/diesel powered arc welder ($$$$) or a 5000+ watt generator and a welder ($$$).

The most commonly used welding machine for homeowners ia a Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW or MIG). Second most common is Gas Tungsten Arc Weld (GTAW or TIG). Read the 2 Wikipedia articles I linked.

 

[jumbojak]

There's nothing wrong with an old Lincoln tombstone but you shouldn't even think about aluminum with a stick. Cast iron is doable with the proper rod and pre/post heating. They also come in handy as a cutting torch if you just need something quick and dirty. The Wales might not be as pretty as a MIG or TIG but they're plenty strong. Best of all, they are cheap and last. As others have posted, the machine you want doesn't exist unless you forget about using the 110 you have access to and go with an engine powered welder/generator.

 

[sberry]

Get a small 240 volt mig first, then go from there. Master one thing first and its really a steel world. I weld 999 steel things for 1 exotic alloy.

 

[AkFordGuy]

Lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of misinformation here.

Let me preface this by saying, I'm a career pipe welder, although I've also spent plenty of time in repair shops, and building aluminum boats. I like to think I know a thing or two about welding.

First off, as someone else has already said, what you're looking for doesn't exist. You're going to have to pick and choose, or buy more than one machine.

Second, welding cast materials is NOT impossible. Whether it's iron, steel, or aluminum, you can successfully weld cast material. For cast iron, using a high nickel alloy stick rod is typically the best option. Lincoln 55 Ni or 99 Ni (I prefer the 99) are both excellent choices.

Stick welding is not a "dying art;" it's actually quite common, pretty much everywhere but a fab shop.

In order to TIG aluminum, you need an AC capable TIG welder. But that does NOT mean you can go and buy any old Lincoln or Miller AC/DC welder and think you're going to TIG aluminum. You also need continuous high frequency, which is another animal altogether. I'm not going to go in to all of that here, you need to do some research on it.

A 110V machine is going to be underwhelming. It's only good for sheet metal in short periods. Stay away from them, is my recommendation.

Lastly, "arc welding" is a broad category. Arc welding refers simply to any welding process by which the metal is melted using an electric arc. It is different from, say, gas welding, friction welding, electron beam welding, etc. SMAW, GMAW, FCAW-S, FCAW-G, GTAW, SAW, are all examples of "arc welding".

Any other questions, let 'em rip.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Stick welding is not a "dying art;" it's actually quite common, pretty much everywhere but a fab shop.

You are correct !

In the field, it is almost 100% stick !

 

[G-ManBart]

It sounds like you have no clue about anything that you posted. Just go back to picking things up and putting them down

He said he plans to learn about welding, so obviously he doesn't know much about it yet. He's asking for help, and you give him that sort of response? Why bother...just to insult the guy?

 

[G-ManBart]

First, you can not really weld cast iron (like cylinder heads or blocks). You might be able to braze them, but it is not the same.

Untrue. People have been welding cast iron for ages. It's not easy, but can be done. I'm a pretty new welder, and learning to weld cast iron has been a recent project of mine....getting pretty good results so far.

Old school arc welding is a dying art. If has its places (heavy steel) but is not what most home owners want.

I don't believe that for one second. There's a big jump in price from stick welding and flux core to any of the gas shielded processes, and that keeps most folks away from MIG or TIG unless they're serious about it. Anybody can buy a cheap AC stick welder for a couple hundred bucks, get some 6011, 6013 or 7018AC and be able to weld most of the stuff that home owners need to tackle.

If you can not get 240V @ 20-30A, forget about it ! You can buy a used gasoline/diesel powered arc welder ($$$$) or a 5000+ watt generator and a welder ($$$).

There are quite a few reasonably priced imported machines that will run just fine on 110/120V, and that's true for stick, MIG and TIG. They're somewhat limited in amperage, but not to the point the average homeowner would run into problems. Affordable inverter technology has changed everything in this regard...smaller, lighter, flexible power input options, you name it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

There's a big jump in price from stick welding and flux core to any of the gas shielded processes, ...

There are quite a few reasonably priced imported machines that will run just fine on 110/120V, and that's true for stick, MIG and TIG.

Big difference of opinion here !

I would never buy any welder that could NOT be converted to gas operation !

I would never buy any welder that could NOT run on 240V ! (Dual voltage IS a plus !)


If you limit yourself to flux core and 120V, you will seriously be limiting your capabilities.

 

[G-ManBart]

Big difference of opinion here !

I would never buy any welder that could NOT be converted to gas operation !

I would never buy any welder that could NOT run on 240V ! (Dual voltage IS a plus !)


If you limit yourself to flux core and 120V, you will seriously be limiting your capabilities.

I wasn't saying to exclude dual voltage machines, I just said that there are good 120V capable welders that won't limit the OPs capabilities significantly. Sure, they're more capable on 240V, but that won't make a difference for the OP since he doesn't have 240V service.

 

[Ign]

As others have said, what you want doesn't exist. Start with steel, and you have to have 220V for reasonable results and versatility.

Worry about Al later.

While you've got his ear, take advantage of AkFordGuy. He's new and not yet jaded and burnt on these questions. The rest of us barely bother to respond after years of the same questions and no one searching. Re-typing the same thing over and over gets tiring, and no one clicks links. Speaking of links, the YT suggestions are excellent

 

[theoldwizard1]

I just said that there are good 120V capable welders that won't limit the OPs capabilities significantly.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Mainly because most "good" 120V machine need a 20A circuit (or at least a dedicated 15A circuit and a "relatively" short run from the load center). Nothing more frustrating than tripping the breaker and having to run back to the house and down the stairs to reset the breaker, knowing you had better wait a good 10-15 minutes for the machine to cool down before starting again.

Even if this is not the case in your garage, it will be in someone else's !

 

[Zeke]

Info about my house and electrical routing:
I also do not have high amperage service I only have 120amp service and the fuse panel that powers the addition and garage is 50 of the 120amps. It has no open slots left in either panel.

I am guessing it will take roughly $3k-$5k to run a new line from the pole and install a new panel in the garage, install conduit/boxes/outlets and probably $500 to update the small fuse panel in the house to a small breaker box. If I have to install a new box I would probably have it setup for dual or tri phase if needed.

So if I could avoid that it would be awesome. Especially because I have been out of work for a month and probably wont be back in for another month if i still have a job.

You might be able to do something there. You could set a box next to your old panel and put a circuit breaker in it fed from the main lugs. This would be for dedicated use so also install the appropriate receptacle. Long heavy gauge cords are pricey but they come up used fairly often. If you can hook up within a 100' of your new plug, you should be able to use a modest 240v machine.

WRT welding, it's a large subject. Many different processes and tons more technique not to mention the metallurgy side. Some of the YouTube 'gurus' have successfully tested imported multi-process machines. The better ones con't come cheap but they offer a lot of versatility, most of which you won't use. They are all inverter based and that's what you should aim for whether you buy a small TIG (which can be used for SMAW) or the MIG that most here have suggested, you can get by rather well. Forget about the fancy CI welding, etc. Take that stuff to the shop and let a pro do it.

BTW, buying a welder is only the first step. There is personal safety equipment to buy and associated tools like clamps, a grinder and at the minimum, a vise. You will want more.

Often times in a situation like yours people will recommend an Oxy/Acet set up. I tend to agree as that was my first welding outfit. You can weld, braze, heat and cut. Comes in very handy and is completely portable and uses no electricity. All welding processes use consumables. In this case it's gas and some rod. You can even weld your aluminum. It's tricky but the planes of WWII were gas welded. Check out the Tin Man Tech for info on that.

 

[MoonRise]

So I have this awesome friend who is learning welding. She offered to teach me when she finishes school for it. She is very smart and learns quickly so I have no doubt that she will have it mastered in no time.

That's awesome.

There is however, a very big difference between "learning" and "mastering".

I am going to want to weld aluminum, cast (aluminum, steel, iron), and steel. IE cylinder heads, engine blocks, roll cages, etc. I know there is a fair amount to it and welding cast is damn near impossible.

Welding cast iron is sometimes doable. Welding cast aluminum is sometimes doable. Welding cast steel is sometimes doable.

A lot depends on the exact alloy of the casting, as well as the 'purity' or 'quality' of the casting.

A poor quality, porous, oil-soaked, 'mystery-metal' aluminum alloy casting (hmm, like a Chinese no-name 'motorcycle' crankcase cover, for instance ) may be darn near impossible to weld. Or weld well. Unless you want to include J-B Weld as a "welding" process.

Welding plain low carbon mild steel is usually very doable, depending on the exact welding process being used and the welding parameters being used and the skill of the person doing the welding.

Trying to weld some 22 gauge sheetmetal with some 1/8" 7018 electrodes with the SMAW (aka 'stick') process would take a welding god to be able to do -that-.

Maybe Hephaestus could do it. Being a god and all. Although he usually seems to prefer the forge, anvil, and hammer for most of his work. At least in the paintings.

I believe my wall outlet is 15amp but, may be 20amp. It is on a fuse circuit not a breaker (old house). 120 volt 60hz American standard A/C.

That limited power source limits the welding choices to 120V input power machines. Or maybe some of the 'newer' 120/240V dual input voltage machines (Lincoln PowerMig 210MP, for instance).

So what would be a good arc welder that is capable of doing those kinds of welding. Obv with all things I would like to do it without breaking the bank and I am thinking a used unit. At the same time reliability of the device and not setting my house on fire (attached garage) is important. I have no qualms about maybe taking apart a unit and cleaning it out / replacing parts if need be to get a good functioning unit. I also wouldn't mind renting one just to learn on till i can find a good quality cheap unit.

Hopefully the machine itself would not be a fire hazard. Dealing with molten metal from the welding process is usually the higher fire hazard.

Info about my house and electrical routing:
I also do not have high amperage service I only have 120amp service and the fuse panel that powers the addition and garage is 50 of the 120amps. It has no open slots left in either panel.

I am guessing it will take roughly $3k-$5k to run a new line from the pole and install a new panel in the garage, install conduit/boxes/outlets and probably $500 to update the small fuse panel in the house to a small breaker box. If I have to install a new box I would probably have it setup for dual or tri phase if needed.

Dude, you need to read and learn about electricity a little bit. 3-phase to a house is usually NotGoingToHappen is most (all?) of the US. Even though the typical power distribution lines running right past your house are 3-phase, the utility companies typically do NOT run 3-phase power to a house.

And although there is such a thing as "dual phase" electric power, you don't have that either.

In your typical US house, you have single phase power. 240V AC from hot leg to hot leg, and 120V AC from either hot leg to neutral.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-phase_electric_power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power

So if I could avoid that it would be awesome. Especially because I have been out of work for a month and probably wont be back in for another month if i still have a job.

Out of work for a month already, with another month before you -might- even go back to work?

Unless you really have a nice emergency fund (financial cushion, rainy-day fund, etc), don't worry or even be thinking about redoing your house's electrical panel and buying a welder. IMNSHO

All that out of the way, or at least addressed in a semi-perfunctory manner, what you 'want' does not really exist.

A

good quality cheap unit

to weld

aluminum, cast, and steel

all running on 120V 15 amp input power.

The closest you'll come to that unicorn machine AFAIK would be something like the Lincoln PowerMig 210MP. Which could maybe let you start doing some welds with 120V input power, until such time as you got 240V input power available for the welder. That specific machine can do GMAW (aka MIG) or FCAW on steel, or on some aluminum with the optional spool gun, and DC SMAW or DC touch-start GTAW (which pretty much means steel, regular or stainless only, ignoring the possible but not 'easy' DC GTAW on aluminum).

Good quality, but not cheap. Base unit is around $1200 list (you missed the Lincoln rebate/incentive of $200 by a few months) which gets you wire feed ready (GMAW or FCAW-S) and SMAW ready (has the electrode holder for SMAW, the work clamp aka 'ground' is already there), the spool gun for aluminum is about $200, the GTAW kit is another couple hundred, add in some shielding gas cylinder(s) for GMAW or GTAW (different gases used for the different welding processes), add in a decent welding helmet (maybe $40 to $300 for a nice one) and some welding gloves ($20 or so) and a welding jacket (maybe $20 for a fire retardant cloth one to about $100 or so for a leather one) and some angle grinders (yes, plural ) and you are probably around $2k all up.

Your friend is going to welding school? And is willing to teach you some welding? Learn at her place (she'll probably have a welder, since she's going to welding school and all). Bring your own gloves, maybe a low-end but decent helmet, and some food and refreshments for her (pizza and beer, or sandwiches and iced tea, or whatever she wants) and maybe offer to pick up or reimburse some of the consumables (electrodes, whether wire for GMAW or FCAW or sticks for SMAW). Learn and start to figure out what you actually want to be able to do or even can do for now.

A dream of a full-up any process and any material welding fabrication shop is cool and all that, but it doesn't really sound like you are at a point to really make that happen just yet. Because of money, learning welding, electrical power, etc.

Go read up about welding at the Miller or Lincoln or ESAB websites. Theory, history, safety concerns, tips, examples, projects, FAQs, etc. Then go to those companies YouTube sites and watch their videos for some more info. Then go to some more welding info sites and/or YouTube sites and get yet some more info.

http://www.millerwelds.com

http://www.lincolnelectric.com

http://www.esabna.com

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com

Come back in a month or two after doing all that and digesting it all and let's go on from there.

 

[Major Ramifications]

So I have this awesome friend who is learning welding. She offered to teach me when she finishes school for it. She is very smart and learns quickly so I have no doubt that she will have it mastered in no time.

Intelligence is not required for welding, only a willingness to learn. At my last job, there were several weldors who had been welding their entire adult life. The one who was the best (by far) was a guy who couldn't read or write, but man, that dude could weld Jello to the ceiling!

 

[Major Ramifications]

So I have this awesome friend who is learning welding. She offered to teach me when she finishes school for it. She is very smart and learns quickly so I have no doubt that she will have it mastered in no time.

Intelligence is not required for welding, only a willingness to learn. At my last job, there were several weldors who had been welding their entire adult life. The one who was the best (by far) was a guy who couldn't read or write, but man, that dude could weld Jello to the ceiling!

Also, you do not need to run a new wire to the house. Getting a 220V welding outlet would not cost nearly as much as you are thinking.

 

[MDK22]

First off thank you MoonRise, AkFordGuy, G-ManBart. Good info. Obviously I do not know a lot about it or I would not be getting taught. I have good leather welding gloves. I still need to get a long sleeve welding shirt, leather apron, and a welding helmet/face shield. The helmet I can get through a Tool Truck the others I would rather buy online or in a box store. I already own 2 different good angle grinders though they are both 5" one Milwaukee and the other a 70s era Craftsman. Not Metabo I know but....

Lincoln Electric POWER MIG® 210 MP Multi-Process Welder Looks like it would be a very good start. I will make sure I look at the info you guys gave me.

 

[William Payne]

I am really glad that AKfordguy posted post #12 because there was a lot of wrong info being posted. His post is bang on.

You talk about welding engine blocks and cylinder heads. That is neither beginner or basic, or something that any old machine can do well.

For people to offer more advice could you describe more specifically what you want to weld and what is going to be a priority for you?

If you priority is blocks and heads and heavier stuff then that will be a completely different bunch of advice then if you just wanted to weld steel plate and box section together. Unfortunately though the block and heads stuff requires more skill and experience.

If you go on YouTube then checkout weldingtipsandtricks. He does good videos.

 

[370]

Ok i'll toss my $.02 in here. I agree with AKfordguy on most points. However. A bunch of people have said it's 240 or nothing. That's not entirely true. If your buying the welder you think you going to keep forever then they are right. But I can tell you from experience the welder you start with won't be your lifetime machine in most cases. As far as stick welding, MIG and TIG. In welding school she's going to learn to stick weld first. It's the most basic of processes and anyone i've known who's gone to welding school and the welding instructor who lives across the street have all told me. (the guy across the street got me started than I just ran with it from there.) Your house more than likely has 240v power. The person that mentioned a sub panel has a good idea. You'd need to pull 2 runs from your current fuse panel and return them into the sub panel (super simple if yours is Romex. Then out a 240 amp breaker in the open spots in the old panel and a short run of heavy gauge cable (copper since your indoors) to the sub panel. Now you'll have extra places for breakers. As for machines. A 240v machine is your best bet but there are dual voltage machines that will do the job. Don't think roll.cages are gonna be done with stick or that your gonna be a good tube/pipe welder quickly. It's just not going to happen. There are some.nice machines that are dual voltage and capable of stick welding. Some one mentioned the Lincoln 210MP. That would be a good choice. Another welder I like and you can usually buy pretty cheap is a miller maxstar 140 or 150. Used they are anywhere from $400-800. All but the lower mod will tig (stay away from a maxstar S it's stick only) this machine is stick/tig. About the size of a shoe box and will run 1/8 rod great. (I own a 140) the middle of the road 150 does stick and lift arc tig. The top model 150 does stick, lift arc and HF tig. (All DC). This welder is something you could transport with you on a motorcycle if need be. Not going to find one more portable. You'd eventually have to buy a dedicated mig machine but from my experiance that's not a bad thing. I personally use mig 80% of the time for stuff around the house and shop. Hope what i told you helps.

 

[Hagatronics]

I'm an amateur when it comes to welding but I can keep myself out of trouble.

I bought a stick welder 25 years ago (as MIG was so expensive then, especially on my student budget). I bought a MIG a few years later. After that the stick welder sat there unused for years before I eventually sold it.

If you aren't planning on welding heavy steel you'll get much more use and versatility from a MIG.

 

[sberry]

A mig is the workhorse in small shops and while there is use for tig its really still a steel world. Get a compact 200 dv mig as a first machine and then see how much you cant do and go from there.