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Good entrenching tool?

yjWrangler

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Anybody knowledgeable on these little shovels? It seems like it would be handy to keep in case I'm ever stuck off road or stuck in snow.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00169V99K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I heard that Cold Steel is a nice one for a good price.

I also kind of like the idea of a folding one with a pick on it. The old Vietnam/Korea era US ones seem solid.

ntRnPoN.jpg


Any other recommendations? Which would be better?
 
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LEVE

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I keep a smaller version in my winter kit that goes in each car. When I was in St. Paul Mn one day, on the way to work, I hit some ice and slid into a snow berm. That little shovel did the trick to break up the icy berm and shovel away the debris. It took some time, but it got me back on the road. I' swear by 'em, not at 'em. I also like the wooden handle in the winter...
 
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yjWrangler

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Outlawmws

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That is a German/Swiss/EU entrenching tool. My only gripe with them is the relativity flat nose on it make is a little harder for "spading" type digging, but that is what the pick is for, loosening the soil.

Other than that they are as solid as any folder you will ever see, or more so.

One thing any shovel benefits from is grinding the edge so its sharp (think hatchet sharp). Makes a ton of difference!

The older Tri fold (Vietnam era) US Entrenching tools I'm less favorable on, but the new ones with the composite handle is impressive.

I like the WWII army shovels and only wish I could find a damn WWII era pick. They went from every surplus store had em and could not get rid of them to near non-existent... :dunno:
 

Outlawmws

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I've heard tri-folds are kind of flimsy. The second one definitely looks nice but may be a bit too big.

The import Trifolds the copied the Vietnam era trifolds are complete rubbish...

The Vietnam era are OK, but can be bent if you are using them to pry with at all...
 
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yjWrangler

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That is a German/Swiss/EU entrenching tool. My only gripe with them is the relativity flat nose on it make is a little harder for "spading" type digging, but that is what the pick is for, loosening the soil.

The eBay ad lists it as a Vietnam War tool :dunno:

$T2eC16J,!yEE9s5jDZckBR3EvWYKWg~~60_12.JPG


You can see the 1964 date on it. What would you say a good price for one is? This one is $40, plus a whopping $15 for shipping. Makes me want to just buy the cheaper Cold Steel shovel and get free 2 day shipping from Amazon.
 

fred.foobar

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I've heard tri-folds are kind of flimsy. The second one definitely looks nice but may be a bit too big.
The tri-folds can loosen up a little while you are digging, just takes a twist on the nut to retighten but that gets old. If you've got the room, I'd go with a non-folding one such as the Cold Steel. I have one, don't really like the sharpened edges so I ended up getting the sheath for it while storing it.

The Bond mini-shovel seems like a better choice if you've got the space.
 

Outlawmws

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The eBay ad lists it as a Vietnam War tool :dunno:

$T2eC16J,!yEE9s5jDZckBR3EvWYKWg~~60_12.JPG


You can see the 1964 date on it. What would you say a good price for one is? This one is $40, plus a whopping $15 for shipping. Makes me want to just buy the cheaper Cold Steel shovel and get free 2 day shipping from Amazon.

It is Vietnam Era, but those were not used IN Vietnam ... :wtf:

Those used to sell from the on line Surplus guys like Sportsmans guide for 2 or 3 for $20 or so.

they seem to have better deals and a better selection also:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/search/eSearch.aspx?SearchTerms=shovel&eMode=

No clue on COO, they used to tell you that; maybe the details ads still do?
 

dave12b

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I carry a trifold I was issued in the mid 90's. Not the best shovel out there but its good enough to dig out of snow/mud if I had to and it takes up little room in the family van. Also can be folded to make a seat when nature calls while out in nature.

My friend swears by the glock version with the buillt in saw but I have no experince. I always wanted a russian wooden fixed handled one but if I got room to carry that I most likley have room for a proper d handle shovel, axe, and bow saw.
 
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kidney

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Glock E-tool.

I have the one that you have a picture of. Let me tell you a little story about it.

It works awesome. However, you're buying old surplus. I broke mine out in the middle of nowhere while attempting to dig a fire pit. The wooden handle broke in half right where the wood meets the metal. Mine is now used for digging holes in the garden.

The Cold Steel special forces tool is a pretty darn good buy, but I like the Glock a little bit better. In case of " I have to beat someone over the head with this thing" the Cold Steel tool wins.


ETA: I think the surplus tools are German made.
 
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yjWrangler

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Well looks like I'm stuck with the old German one. Offered the guy $20 on ebay to see if he'd bite and he accepted. At least if it breaks I'll know to get the Glock/Cold Steel.
 

Duct Tape Man

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The German e-tools I have found to be near bulletproof, they are made out of thicker steel than the US ones are made from. I have one in my pickup and it will last the rest of my life.

The older US made folding shovels from WWII and Vietnam era are also tough. The tri-folds, stay away from. They are fine for loose soil and sand, but throw in a few rocks and it won't last long.
 

NUTTSGT

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I had one like pictured in the OP, I broke the wood handle, which was replaced with a steel pipe. I preferred the folding one I was issued in the Marines better.
 

Engineer61

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I have the Glock e-tool, works as well as any other shovel with a too short handle on it. No e-tool is as good as a real shovel, but a lot better than digging with your hands or a snow scraper. Best thing about it is it folds up into the lightest, smallest package of any of the e-tools and comes with a pouch to keep it in. Lives behind the seat of my pickup and mostly is used to dig out the snow & ice that is high-entering a car that slid off the road.
 

Outlawmws

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Well looks like I'm stuck with the old German one. Offered the guy $20 on ebay to see if he'd bite and he accepted. At least if it breaks I'll know to get the Glock/Cold Steel.

When you get it, hit it with a grinder and get a real edge on it (Hatchet style not knife...). you can even do one (or both) sides if you want for light cutting in a swing.

Its a bit shorter than the US army WWII tools but very well made.
 
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yjWrangler

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When you get it, hit it with a grinder and get a real edge on it (Hatchet style not knife...). you can even do one (or both) sides if you want for light cutting in a swing.

Its a bit shorter than the US army WWII tools but very well made.

I think I'll grind the front and one side then just throw some olive drab spray paint over it to stop any rust. Can this thing actually do light cutting? I'd be worried about breaking it.
 

Outlawmws

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Cutting with a light weight tool is more about technique than the tool. even a big ax is at its worst in a 90 deg to the grain cut, and for some woods cutting them green is best, for others its dry..

For a light cutter, (this, a machete, light camp hatchets...) you want to be making a diagonal. almost slashing cut, and let the thing cut at 45 deg or so to the grain. If it is something bigger you go at it from two angles, and let the chunks chip out. (Ever seen a Loggers competition? they hack at two angles and those cuts are nearly as wide as the wood is thick, and the chips just FLY!...). You can also cut from two sides like that and meet in the middle.

Same with loppers, you can cut 2X the thickness if you go at 45 deg instead of 90...
 

NC-Fordguy

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I dunno??

11 years served in the army and can't think of good and entrenching tool used in the same sentence
 

Bruce Lancaster

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A scribble I did for another board...

100 years of the American entrenching tool:



My range begins with Model 1910, which was still the most common one in use for WWII.
1910 was a simple small, short spade with a wooden T handle...the design made an excellent and sturdy digging tool, but I think the T made it an awkward weapon. All the WWI references I have seen indicate that full sized shovels were the tool of choice as weapons. There was a shortened version of 1910 for someone...airborne? Cavalry? Probably utterly useless when shortened...
The rigid design likely renders this impractical for belt carry and awkward on a modern pack; in WWII the long, thin model 1928 pack most generally used (and its similar WWI ancestor) were shaped and sized nicely to carry the 1910 vertically at the back.
Late in WWII, the Model 1943 started entering service. This was the first folder and was a straight-handled simple spade, with an ideal handle for use as a swinging weapon. It was entirely usable as a weapon even as it came out of its pouch folded, and the screw lock allowed the tool to be used as shovel or hoe. In Korea, it developed into the M1951 with a pick added giving more tool options and a point probably capable of piercing a helmet. This was the familiar Vietnam period tool...probably the best weapon entrnching tool, very slightly inferior to 1910 as a shovel, both because of handle design.
The tri-fold model started replacing this in the late '60's, M 1967, an excellent design for carry and a good shovel. The new edges were an improvement in root cutting or chopping IMHO. The handle loop gives a good digging grip but a poor swinging grip...probably irrelevant because if you needed the thing as a weapon you'd be dead long before you got it unfolded and locked. It may, though, be about as good as the 1910 for digging...
So there's our path to now. Modern design proposals seem to be compromised towards compact carry and well away from practical use as a swinging weapon, so better find an M1951 to carry in the Zombie apocalypse.
Maybe the next generation will be entirely digital...



This website provides good pictures, even though they cannot spell "entrenching" correctly:



http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_intrenching.php

For car carry, think chopping as well as digging...in my experience, the hard use is always the packed and frozen slicks that form when you are parked.

The modernish trifold is a good car tool...it comes in real USA and Bundeswehr surplus (essentially identical), surplus from various places in the Balkans, **** repro, etc.
As I notes, the old 1951 is a better choice for the Zombie apocalypse.
 
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yjWrangler

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Got it in yesterday, I had no idea it would be as small as it is. Figured it would be bigger. Oh well, fits nicely under the back seat of my Jeep. It's a lot more solid than I thought it would be too.
 

Outlawmws

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They are solid, and I think I mentioned the length being a bit smaller than the classic US tool. Handle is maybe 2" shorter, the b;lade itself is slightly shorter, but as its a semi Square blade, compared to the US spade it can still carry as much or more that the US shovel. The handle itself is much stouter that the US version where it goes into the shovel.
 
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