Good first scan tool to learn on

[mikey03]

I work on friends and familys cars to do basic stuff. I want to do the online scanner danner videos and learn more about sensors and stuff. I never was good in school but I watched a few videos on fuel trim this weekend and I love it and want to learn more.

my cheap obd2 device does fuel trim but I think I need a legit scan tool that can let me see graphs over time

I don’t want to waste money on a cheap scan tool and my dad said he’d help me out because he sees how interested I am in learning. But it seems like there’s scan tools from $300 to $20000 and my problem is I don’t know what I need until I start using it. And I don’t want to put $500 into a cheap one and then a few months into using it realize a $1000 one is what I need.

so far from the videos it looks like I need 02 sensor data with graph. Short and long term fuel trim with graph and split into bank 1 and 2.

I don’t plan on working on the newest cars because any friends or family that has a new car can afford a legit mechanic and shouldn’t trust me on their stuff anyway. So maybe working on cars 5 to 30 years old.

hoping to get some thing good for 500 to 1000 but my dad will help if I need to spend more. Nothing crazy, no 5000 units!

I want it for diagnostic data and to be able to learn from scanner danner but not to immediately need to buy a nicer one once I’m done with the course.

 

[richfinn]

I would subscribe to Ivan's channel, he regularly reviews budget scan tools in your price range.

 

[P0234]

Unless you need a ton of bi-directional controls, its hard to beat the Hyper Tough HT-500, it gets you onto the Innova platform. I know its only $50 but it will get you what you need until you decide you need more. I get that mechanics need a dedicated box, but for home users is just makes way more sense to use a tablet or phone they have.

 

[signcrafter]

I'm not up to date on scan tools but I started out with an autel 10 years ago and have bought two more since then. It's done pretty much anything I have needed it to do. Think my last one was 12 or 1300 but think they updated their line up and raised prices since then. I paid 1000 for the im508 to program keys and then one update they included the full diagnostic software to bring it up to the same level as my other autel. Not sure if launch or top don has better deals out there or not but I was used to the autel platform and didn't have any issues with it so just stuck with them for now.

My latest scanner is a few years old now so probably in the next year or so I am going to look into another one. I've always just bought a new scan tool when needed vs updating. This time since my autel is still good for most anything I'm working on I will research another brand so I have two different scanners. No one scanner works great on everything. Different scanners work better on different vehicles, especially in our price range. So adding a different brand scanner to the arsenal will be a good thing.

2ndgearrubber is really knowledgeable on scan tools and I know he has an autel and he bought a topdon within the last year if I recall correctly. He will probably chime in sometime. I know I've seen some 500ish dollar tools with bidirectional functions. Those would probably be good enough to get started on. But like I said I haven't done much research on what's out there in a few years.

One feature I really like about my autel is the blutooth obd adapter. Allows you to carry the tool to the engine bay and watch pids and also do tests being right there. Or under the car to activate evap vent valve and seal the system. Not absolutely a must but does come in handy.

 

[f121]

Buy a used modis ultra or modis edge with the newest software you can find. Over here they’re $600-1500 on marketplace

 

[signcrafter]

One more thing if you work on newer chrysler vehicles, 2018 and newer, is you need autoauth subscription. No matter what scan tool you have from what I understand. I have only run into one vehicle I needed that for and couldn't get into the computers on the vehicle. But it's only a matter of time now before I will need it. Need to look into it more so I'm ready when that time comes.

 

[P0234]

One more thing if you work on newer chrysler vehicles, 2018 and newer, is you need autoauth subscription. No matter what scan tool you have from what I understand. I have only run into one vehicle I needed that for and couldn't get into the computers on the vehicle. But it's only a matter of time now before I will need it. Need to look into it more so I'm ready when that time comes.

I had to google that. Wow. Not that I'd shop for one of those turds, but it seems as bad as the mercedes **** of pairing components and only allowing offical tools to recode them, for "theft reasons" of course.....

 

[mikedodge]

One more thing if you work on newer chrysler vehicles, 2018 and newer, is you need autoauth subscription. No matter what scan tool you have from what I understand. I have only run into one vehicle I needed that for and couldn't get into the computers on the vehicle. But it's only a matter of time now before I will need it. Need to look into it more so I'm ready when that time comes.

You can get a bypass cable to get around that. Zautomotive and some others have it.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Buy a used modis ultra or modis edge with the newest software you can find. Over here they’re $600-1500 on marketplace

As far as ease, this is the way. The older modis/solus tools use the nicad batteries, and the gen1 modis is actually windows based, windows ce? The newer stuff is a standalone OS which boots faster and has no windows BS.

Anyways a snap on tool with the scope built in is VERY nice to learn from. Built in service info with the scope which explains how specific sensors and systems work. Plus on 2010 and back there still a a good amount of Troubleshooter info in the tool. As things got newer all of that got pushed into Suretrack which then you'd need a current sub for. Locally modis updated to 17/18/19 will be 700-1200. Not all of that era of tool included European cars, so if you want that confirm the tool has it in the vehicle brand list.

All of that said, the ideal is to work backwards. What capability do you want? That dictates price. If you're just looking for basic graphing, minimal or no bidirectional controls, you can do that sub 750 for a new tool versus buying a used snap on Modis of ~1000.


You mention fuel trims. You want to graph data, versus other types of data. Maxicom line from autel and the similarly priced launch, topdon, etc will do that and give you some basic bidirectional controls. Often in that line of tools you'll get "reset functions", so electronic parking brake, oil lights, adaptive, etc.

 

[mikey03]

All of that said, the ideal is to work backwards. What capability do you want? That dictates price. If you're just looking for basic graphing, minimal or no bidirectional controls, you can do that sub 750 for a new tool versus buying a used snap on Modis of ~1000.

I hope this doesn’t sound too retarded but idk what capability I want. I didn’t know what fuel trim was until last week. Once I learned about it, I wanted to go try on my car and some familys cars but my OBD2 reader doesn’t graph well. And like you said, can I graph it against other functions like O2 sensor?

I know if I had a scan tool then as I’m watching videos and taking notes then I will go outside and plug them in and try out on cars and expand my learnings since I learn hands on.

I’m probably not going to become a professional mechanic but I want to be more than a parts cannon guy. And I want to learn how cars work and diags.

I think a lot of the features in scan tools are functional like to tell the system to flush the ABS or to recode TPMS. That’s cool and all but for now I mostly want diag stuff. Graphing sensors and data.

You mentioned a scope, I want to get one of those too but I’m such a beginner I don’t even know what they do. But if I don’t have one when I’m watching videos to go hands on I won’t learn.

so anyway if now I understand the basics of fuel trim and o2 sensors and I run out and buy a scantool that does that, and a month from now I learned about something else, but I bought too cheap of a scan tool that don’t do that thing, then I have a problem.

It’s a messed up loop because I won’t know what capability I need until I learn about the capability and realize the tool doesn’t have it.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I hope this doesn’t sound too retarded but idk what capability I want. I didn’t know what fuel trim was until last week. Once I learned about it, I wanted to go try on my car and some familys cars but my OBD2 reader doesn’t graph well. And like you said, can I graph it against other functions like O2 sensor?

I know if I had a scan tool then as I’m watching videos and taking notes then I will go outside and plug them in and try out on cars and expand my learnings since I learn hands on.

I’m probably not going to become a professional mechanic but I want to be more than a parts cannon guy. And I want to learn how cars work and diags.

I think a lot of the features in scan tools are functional like to tell the system to flush the ABS or to recode TPMS. That’s cool and all but for now I mostly want diag stuff. Graphing sensors and data.

You mentioned a scope, I want to get one of those too but I’m such a beginner I don’t even know what they do. But if I don’t have one when I’m watching videos to go hands on I won’t learn.

so anyway if now I understand the basics of fuel trim and o2 sensors and I run out and buy a scantool that does that, and a month from now I learned about something else, but I bought too cheap of a scan tool that don’t do that thing, then I have a problem.

It’s a messed up loop because I won’t know what capability I need until I learn about the capability and realize the tool doesn’t have it.

Makes perfect sense, we've all been there.

Reason I mention a snap on scope specifically is the guided component test included on any snap on scope. This will teach you not only how to make basic measurements but more importantly how things like an oxygen sensor function. It also includes basic connector views, and component locations, very valuable.

It sounds to ME, just my opinion, you want to graph data and understand how things work. If get a tool like a maxicom level autel or similar. For sub 500 bucks you can get the capability you want. We all outgrow tools, but this should be a solid tool. I would recommend at least seeing what is available used locally. A used Modis you can grow into and you get the extra features. But, no warranty, and you have to deal with goobers on Marketplace.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Basic info on the guided component test. Again, you're stuck paying more and getting a used tool, plus it's not updated.

 

[signcrafter]

You sound like me 10 years ago. I bought an autel ds708(?) which was one of the only affordable full "full function" scan tool if I remember right. It was still entry level compared to the big boys but allowed me to see a lot of pids and bidirectional controls and do way more then I knew how to. I knew nothing about fuel trims at that point. I bought it because around that time I was starting to work on cars with electronic parking brakes and getting more and more diagnostics and made up my mind I wasn't going to be like the older generation that said you can't work on cars these days because everything is computerized. I still here that all the time and it drives me nuts. Funny thing is I can't tune a carb but do pretty well on diagnostics on newer vehicles. But I'm still learning every day and will keep learning. And I'm the same way as you that until I had a tool in my hands to play with I couldn't learn. Nobody I knew had a good scan tool and knowledge to use it if they did. So had to teach myself with a lot of help from the internet and members on here that answered my questions.

Another thought here, I know autel has a cheaper tool, think the 808 that has bidirectional controls for under 500 bucks if I remember right. I never paid much attention to it because I already had a scan tool so didn't need that. But as 2ndgear said something like that would make a really good entry level tool for you to learn with for the next few years. Then once you understand how it works and get better then you will be able to make a better choice on a new scan tool after your subscription runs out or you need a feature it doesn't have.

I was also like you and didn't know exactly what I needed since I didn't know much about the scan tools and how they worked. And like you I didn't want to spend that much money on something and then find out it didn't have a feature I needed and for a couple hundred more could have got one that did. If you are interested in this like you state and keep with it you will end up buying a new scan tool in a few years anyway once your updates for free run out. I don't update my scan tools. They came with 2 years free and when that ran out I still use them for a year or two and then I just buy a new one with two years updates for free with the money saved on not getting updates.

 

[mikey03]

How do the subscriptions work? Is it to use the tool at all or just to update for newer cars? Is it like Spotify where you stop paying and your music goes away? Or does it just mean you can’t work on any cars newer that come out after the scan tool?

 

[mikey03]

It sounds to ME, just my opinion, you want to graph data and understand how things work. If get a tool like a maxicom level autel or similar. For sub 500 bucks you can get the capability you want. We all outgrow tools, but this should be a solid tool. I would recommend at least seeing what is available used locally. A used Modis you can grow into and you get the extra features. But, no warranty, and you have to deal with goobers on Marketplace.

do any of them for under 1000 come with a built in scope or is that just the expensive snap ons? I saw an old thread where you were discussing whether people needed a single channel or multichannel scope. I guess if whatever tool I buy doesn’t have a scope then I need to budget a separate scope for myself too?

 

[signcrafter]

How do the subscriptions work? Is it to use the tool at all or just to update for newer cars? Is it like Spotify where you stop paying and your music goes away? Or does it just mean you can’t work on any cars newer that come out after the scan tool?

I still use mine after subscription runs out. They work just fine with vehicles up to when your subscription runs out. And if you are like me which it sounds like, you won't be working on brand new vehicles most likely. My newest vehicle right now is a 2015 but we will be getting a newer vehicle in the near future. I will probably buy a new scan tool around the same time so that I will be able to use it on that. It will most likely have a warranty but I like to be able to do my own work when needed. I also like to play around on my own vehicles and learn things on new vehicles. The vehicles I work on for other people aren't brand new since they take it to dealer while under warranty. The only ones you can't work on are chrysler products 2018 and newer and whoever follows in their path requiring a current autoauth subscription which requires your scan tool to have a current subscription. But other then that you will be fine using your tool once the updates run out. None of my scan tools have current subscriptions and use them almost every day.

That's why I said I buy a new one every few years. Spend around 1000 dollars give or take and most come with 2 years free updates. So if you buy this year your tool will be updated for 2 more years. Then you can use it at least for two or so more years in most cases unless you are working on a brand new vehicle. Save yourself those 2 years of updates at 500 or so bucks and then just buy a new scan tool with that money saved. That works good for guys like us that don't do this everyday and don't work on brand new cars everyday.

 

[mikey03]

That's why I said I buy a new one every few years. Spend around 1000 dollars give or take and most come with 2 years free updates. So if you buy this year your tool will be updated for 2 more years. Then you can use it at least for two or so more years in most cases unless you are working on a brand new vehicle.

Oh I rarely am entrusted on vehicles newer than 5 years old so I could easily get 7+ years out of a tool with 2 years updates!

Can we make a list of stuff the nicer scan tools do that the cheaper do not? So that I can look at the list at least and try to guess or ask questions about a specific feature to see if it’s worth more money?

I heard 2ndGear say that the snap on ones have a scope built in and from the video he shares have some tricks in help text that explain where to connect to various sensors on the car directly for testing.

So that’s two features:

1 built in scope
2 tutorial mode showing specific car connection points

what else does the 5,000+ ones have that the $500 doesn’t?

 

[signcrafter]

Oh I rarely am entrusted on vehicles newer than 5 years old so I could easily get 7+ years out of a tool with 2 years updates!

Can we make a list of stuff the nicer scan tools do that the cheaper do not? So that I can look at the list at least and try to guess or ask questions about a specific feature to see if it’s worth more money?

I heard 2ndGear say that the snap on ones have a scope built in and from the video he shares have some tricks in help text that explain where to connect to various sensors on the car directly for testing.

So that’s two features:

1 built in scope
2 tutorial mode showing specific car connection points

what else does the 5,000+ ones have that the $500 doesn’t?

I'm not familiar with snap on scanners. Most or all of the sub 1000 dollar scan tools won't have a scope. I wouldn't mind a snap on with scope and guided instructions. I don't have a scope and really never needed one and I work on more vehicles then the average shade tree. There have been times where one would have been handy and sometime I will run into a time where it is needed. I've looked into stand alone ones like pico and uscope and eventually will get one. But for a guy just starting to learn that wasn't familiar with fuel trims till this week I wouldn't let a scope be your determining factor in scan tool.

Personally I think you have the answers you were looking for. I was in your same spot and really over thought it because it is a lot of money buying your first real scan tool and when you don't have experience with them it's hard to tell what you need and which one to get. Personally I would not focus on the scope right now, think the only way you are going to get one with scope is used and now you have to take a chance on used which may be risky not knowing anything about scan tools. Speaking from past experience if I was you(and I was not long ago) I would grab whatever scan tool you decide on and get it in your hands to play with. Most of the 500-1000 dollar tools are fairly similar with abilities. Some better then others on certain brands. For a guy starting out any of them will work. I was just talking to 2nd gear in another thread about autoauth and getting another scan tool in the near future since my last one has been out of subscription for about 2 years now, he mentioned I should get the topdon phoenix lite 3. He recently added a topdon as another scan tool option and he has the same autel 906 platform I have and he uses his scan tools everyday. So I just pick up a new 1000ish dollar scan tool every 4 or so years and call it good. So I would either just get the cheapest autel that has bidirectional for less then 500 and use it to learn the basics. It will be good enough for just about anything you will run into and want to learn and then you will be familiar with scan tools and can pick out a new one a few years down the road. Or pick your flavor for around 1000 and it will have a few more functions and you will be good for the 7 years you mentioned.

Then worry about a scope down the road. I know and agree they have their place and can make some diagnostics very fast but it's a whole nother game you will have to learn. Personally unless you can find a great deal on a used scan tool with scope that checks all your boxes I would just worry about scan tool for now. I have never "needed" one but at the same time I'm not familiar with what all they can do so maybe I could have used one. Kind of the same situation as you not knowing what all a good scan tool can do. But a scan tool is a lot more useful as an everyday tool. I know 2nd gear and others uses pressure transducers and amp clamps to test for things like fuel pump draw for bad fuel pump. Relative compression tests. Starter draws. and many other things they can do very easy compared to taking a plug out or getting to the fuel pump or hooking up pressure gauge to test it. Things like that. Just my thoughts and advice.

 

[f121]

How do the subscriptions work? Is it to use the tool at all or just to update for newer cars? Is it like Spotify where you stop paying and your music goes away? Or does it just mean you can’t work on any cars newer that come out after the scan tool?

It varies. Typically the Bluetooth ones that work on your phone and are advertised on social media stop working if you stop paying, the pro level scan tools just stop getting updates and keep working. The exception on the pro scan tools is the online services, some give you access to databases that have fix information, some give access to the manufacturers auth system for encrypted modules. These go away if you stop paying. For a shade tree guy working on older vehicles, probably not worth it.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

do any of them for under 1000 come with a built in scope or is that just the expensive snap ons? I saw an old thread where you were discussing whether people needed a single channel or multichannel scope. I guess if whatever tool I buy doesn’t have a scope then I need to budget a separate scope for myself too?

The Modis line of tools in the ~750-1200 range would have a 2 channel scope and the standalone operating system. The oldest model of Modis, generation EEM300?, will have a 4 channel scope. The screen is worse though, and they newest update you could theoretically find for that would be 2015? Still a competent scanner and scope, just hampered a bit with the screen and battery tech. I learned a lot buying a generation 1 Modis for $350 on marketplace. I would say the going rate is closer to $500. Batteries can be rebuild for <100 by MTO battery.

These are all used prices mind you, from facebook marketplace in my local area. That generation 1 Modis I bought for $350 with all the keys and leads was likely a $5000 tool in 2005. The modern equivalent of the 2 channel Modis you can find used for ~1000 retails over $6000.

If you can swallow buying a used tool, having to inspect it and be sure it has all the pieces, it can be a great value. But be aware, you have no warranty, may need a battery repaired, etc.

Oh I rarely am entrusted on vehicles newer than 5 years old so I could easily get 7+ years out of a tool with 2 years updates!

Can we make a list of stuff the nicer scan tools do that the cheaper do not? So that I can look at the list at least and try to guess or ask questions about a specific feature to see if it’s worth more money?

I heard 2ndGear say that the snap on ones have a scope built in and from the video he shares have some tricks in help text that explain where to connect to various sensors on the car directly for testing.

So that’s two features:

1 built in scope
2 tutorial mode showing specific car connection points

what else does the 5,000+ ones have that the $500 doesn’t?

Believe it or not the Autel/Launch software running most of the cheaper scanners will outperform snap on on basically all 2010+ vehicles. Snap on, exclusively talking the scanner function, has 4 main features that set it apart. I have a Snap on, Autel, and Topdon (launch based) scan tool, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

1) Menu layout. Snap on generally lays their menus out the same, for all cars. Same order, same lists, boxes, etc. Whereas Autel and Launch software more closely mimic the factory layout. TPMS functions are quite easy to find on a snap on, click the TPMS button on the list. Previously with autel and launch you had to figure out what module did the TPMS work, and select that module. This has generally been corrected with Autel/launch by adding "Services" on the front menu which takes you directly to features like TPMS, parking brake function, oil resets, etc. Generally this adds confidence to a new user, less timid in how they click through menus.

2) Graphing. Snap on graphs the best visually. It looks the best, is easiest to read. At one point I read that snap on uses a spererate processor specifically to render the graph data, but I'm not sure if that's true. The VAST majority of the time, the other tools are fine.

3) Interface/applications. Snap on will not have much/any chinglish words, akward phrasing, etc. Some of the autel/launch stuff is clearly translated, and thus some of the data lines or wording of how a special function test works doesn't quite make sense. Mostly on 2010 and older stuff the other two tools can include features and tests not on the car. So while you may have secondary air injection data listed, and a test to control the system, the car doesn't have it. On these older cars it will also have add ons like "Hey to use the secondary air injection test you have to wait 30 seconds even if you cycle the key". Whereas the others you may keep trying to run the test and only have it work 1/5 tries, since that's how long it takes you to burn the 30 seconds. Now this is mainly an older car problem, by ~2010 the vast majoirty of that nonsense was gone from cars. And 2010 was 14 years ago, so how many of those cars are you really working on?

4) It works. ALL scan tools, 100%, will fail you. You will command the BCM to honk the horn, and it won't honk, because the program is written wrong and doesn't work. It never told the BCM to honk the horn. Of the big 3, snap on has the least capability. Autel and Launch objectively will have more tests, more data. But if snap on has it, odds are it's going to work. That said when you need to see the position and status of HVAC motors and the snap on can't even produce that data, the "it works" feature doesn't really apply.



Snap on is by far the worst vaule talking new for new tools. IMO it is getting on the edge of being worth it for professiional use. But used tools offer a more competitive value. Still the asian tools just keep dropping the price and keep uping their performance.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I'm not familiar with snap on scanners. Most or all of the sub 1000 dollar scan tools won't have a scope. I wouldn't mind a snap on with scope and guided instructions. I don't have a scope and really never needed one and I work on more vehicles then the average shade tree. There have been times where one would have been handy and sometime I will run into a time where it is needed. I've looked into stand alone ones like pico and uscope and eventually will get one. But for a guy just starting to learn that wasn't familiar with fuel trims till this week I wouldn't let a scope be your determining factor in scan tool.

Personally I think you have the answers you were looking for. I was in your same spot and really over thought it because it is a lot of money buying your first real scan tool and when you don't have experience with them it's hard to tell what you need and which one to get. Personally I would not focus on the scope right now, think the only way you are going to get one with scope is used and now you have to take a chance on used which may be risky not knowing anything about scan tools. Speaking from past experience if I was you(and I was not long ago) I would grab whatever scan tool you decide on and get it in your hands to play with. Most of the 500-1000 dollar tools are fairly similar with abilities. Some better then others on certain brands. For a guy starting out any of them will work. I was just talking to 2nd gear in another thread about autoauth and getting another scan tool in the near future since my last one has been out of subscription for about 2 years now, he mentioned I should get the topdon phoenix lite 3. He recently added a topdon as another scan tool option and he has the same autel 906 platform I have and he uses his scan tools everyday. So I just pick up a new 1000ish dollar scan tool every 4 or so years and call it good. So I would either just get the cheapest autel that has bidirectional for less then 500 and use it to learn the basics. It will be good enough for just about anything you will run into and want to learn and then you will be familiar with scan tools and can pick out a new one a few years down the road. Or pick your flavor for around 1000 and it will have a few more functions and you will be good for the 7 years you mentioned.

Then worry about a scope down the road. I know and agree they have their place and can make some diagnostics very fast but it's a whole nother game you will have to learn. Personally unless you can find a great deal on a used scan tool with scope that checks all your boxes I would just worry about scan tool for now. I have never "needed" one but at the same time I'm not familiar with what all they can do so maybe I could have used one. Kind of the same situation as you not knowing what all a good scan tool can do. But a scan tool is a lot more useful as an everyday tool. I know 2nd gear and others uses pressure transducers and amp clamps to test for things like fuel pump draw for bad fuel pump. Relative compression tests. Starter draws. and many other things they can do very easy compared to taking a plug out or getting to the fuel pump or hooking up pressure gauge to test it. Things like that. Just my thoughts and advice.

Quoting this for it's value.

Just getting your hands on something is a big factor. If you choose to grow in your knowledge and skills no one tool will every be enough. The only reason I bring up snap on is OP specifically said older stuff, not brand new. If you can get a snap on tool with a scope for $750, it's basically always worth 500 bucks until that generation is 20 years old and the hardware it runs on is just so out of date it's silly. Like my Gen1 Modis LOL. If you never use the scope, no biggie. But the guided component test is nice data to have for education specific to a given car.

Issue with buying used snap on, is it's used. Someone could shank you over $750 in the walmart parking lot when you go to buy it. It could take a dump the 1st time you turn it on, and it wouldn't be cost effective to repair or even possible to on the much older units.

Getting a 2 channel Modis for $500 updated to 2018 is kind of the dream for a new user. New enough for the stuff they mess with, scope/info included, always has some ROI if they sell. But these units are rare, very rare. Buying a unit like that for the scope alone, and getting a "free" scanner attached makes sense and you can lurk on Marketplace for 3 months to do so. But someone just buying their first scan tool? Unless a quick glance across Marketplace provides a unicorn, just buy an Asain tool.


The final thing with the asian tools, it grey market versus authorized dealers. Autel/Launch/Topdon/etc USA is not the same as the global company. Buying from Amazon means your only recourse for resolving an issue with the unit may be simply returning it and getting another from the seller. You'll be unlikely to send it to the service center under warranty or anything. But again we're talking $500 tools, so if it lasts long enough to legitimately need updated because you use it so much, it's often a wash to just buy a new unit.

That's why I bought my topdon. I needed something on current software, my autel was fairly old and rather slow, and the topdon with 2 years of updates included was 75% of the price of updating my Snap on once.

 

[signcrafter]

Yes be sure you buy from an authorized dealer. It usually costs an extra 100 or so but you will have support. I'm only familiar with autel but if you buy a global version instead of of the US version, assuming you are in the US. Then autel won't support or help you if you have issues. And I've never had to use it but I believe as long as your autel is under current subscription and was bought from an authorized dealer they will warranty it if something breaks.

 

[mikey03]

Can anyone please explain the Autel model names? When I go on Amazon I’m overwhelmed by how many options they have, and honestly they are all within 450 and 650 so idk why they need to offer a different one in every $20 price range lol

 

[mnglocker]

For just getting into it, you don't need to spend snap-on dough. That being said, buy enough tool, to not tease yourself. Launch, TopDon, Autel all make decent BI-DIRECTIONAL tools. That's huge for DXing issues on a car. Be sure they have proper software like AutoAuth for FCA if you need it. I picked up a Launch X431crp for $372.00, it's paid for it's self several times already.

 

[richfinn]

Oh I rarely am entrusted on vehicles newer than 5 years old so I could easily get 7+ years out of a tool with 2 years updates!

Can we make a list of stuff the nicer scan tools do that the cheaper do not? So that I can look at the list at least and try to guess or ask questions about a specific feature to see if it’s worth more money?

I heard 2ndGear say that the snap on ones have a scope built in and from the video he shares have some tricks in help text that explain where to connect to various sensors on the car directly for testing.

So that’s two features:

1 built in scope
2 tutorial mode showing specific car connection points

what else does the 5,000+ ones have that the $500 doesn’t?

I think it's better to have a stand alone scope, tech info, scan tool personally.

If it breaks or gets stolen you lose everything in one go.

I bought a Launch X431 pro 3 s plus (as a back up and I like it a lot) things I use most are.

Battery Matching for stop/start systems.

Brake Caliper Service Mode

DPF regens/Adblue refill/resets

Steering Angle Sensor relearns (after dead batteries)

On the diag side, I love the Topology feature, it's awesome to see at a glance if any modules are offline.

The live data graphing and bidirectional tests are good once you get used to translating the weird "Chinglish" descriptions of data parameters.

You will know when you're ready to buy an Oscilloscope (it's when you master the Digital Multimeter and it no longer offers the speed or resolution for measuring signals).

The more expensive aftermarket Scan tools can have programming/ADAS/battery tester/insulation tester functions built in with add on modules available (you don't really need all that stuff as you can buy stand alone stuff cheap/used).

You can get a decent global tool nowadays (Launch/Topdon/Autel/Thinktool) for under $1000, the screen size is more important than you think!!! and a Bluetooth VCI is so much better as you can perform tests under the hood or under the car without worrying about the cable.

I bought a global Launch from Amazon and zero problems with updates or subscription and it works fine on all the Euros I've worked on, Ivan from PHAD seems to be an Amazon buyer too and loves his Thinktool PROs.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

For just getting into it, you don't need to spend snap-on dough. That being said, buy enough tool, to not tease yourself. Launch, TopDon, Autel all make decent BI-DIRECTIONAL tools. That's huge for DXing issues on a car. Be sure they have proper software like AutoAuth for FCA if you need it. I picked up a Launch X431crp for $372.00, it's paid for it's self several times already.

FWIW autoauth is 50/year. For a DIY I wouldn't even bother until you have a need specifically. Odds are a lot of people would spend 50 bucks and end up never even connecting to an FCA vehicle.

 

[mnglocker]

I haven't needed to kick the subscription on yet for my 2016. I don't think I'll have to unless I'm trying to program new key fobs.

 

[signcrafter]

I haven't needed to kick the subscription on yet for my 2016. I don't think I'll have to unless I'm trying to program new key fobs.

A 16 shouldn't need autoauth for anything. They started around 2018. I just did a key on a 16 charger with my out of subscription im508 no problems.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

It depends on year for FCA, model by model. IIRC by 2018 everything was autoauth. They rolled it out model by model when they did updates on the chassis.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Can anyone please explain the Autel model names? When I go on Amazon I’m overwhelmed by how many options they have, and honestly they are all within 450 and 650 so idk why they need to offer a different one in every $20 price range lol

So part of the issue you're seeing there is grey market tools. All thr 450 to 600 tools are "XX808" format names. Meaning they're all running the same features of the 808 series autels.

The 808 series were originally all corded models, with no legitimate bi directional features outside of "service resets" like parking brake, battery matching, oil lights, etc.

At some.point autel added some bidirectional top them, but not as much as a full function tool like the 906 line. 808 line tools are lots of functionality to learn on. I'm just specifically picking autel since I'm more familiar with their lines, but all the brands work the same way. Go to the topdon site, and you can see the legit US models sold. Note the names and features, then go to Amazon and you can sort of figure out how the grey market versions of the tools fit in.

 

[mikey03]

At some.point autel added some bidirectional top them, but not as much as a full function tool like the 906 line. 808 line tools are lots of functionality to learn on. I'm just specifically picking autel since I'm more familiar with their lines, but all the brands work the same way. Go to the topdon site, and you can see the legit US models sold. Note the names and features, then go to Amazon and you can sort of figure out how the grey market versions of the tools fit in.

so if I’m okay to go up to around 1,000 or so, which autel model should I get? Bidirectional sounds good. I saw some videos I like how the autel has a Bluetooth obd2 that clips into the back of the scan tool so it’s one less thing to loose.

if spending 1,100 or 1,200 is a better tool I can probably do that with help from my dad who wants to help. I want to order something and get started with it and then like people say in 2 or 3 years get a new one.

it seems like the scan tools either are in the 500 range, or jump to around 1,000, and from there jump to 6,000 for some tool truck ones.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

so if I’m okay to go up to around 1,000 or so, which autel model should I get? Bidirectional sounds good. I saw some videos I like how the autel has a Bluetooth obd2 that clips into the back of the scan tool so it’s one less thing to loose.

if spending 1,100 or 1,200 is a better tool I can probably do that with help from my dad who wants to help. I want to order something and get started with it and then like people say in 2 or 3 years get a new one.

it seems like the scan tools either are in the 500 range, or jump to around 1,000, and from there jump to 6,000 for some tool truck ones.

The 500 to 1000 jump is mainly for larger screens and full bidirectional, along with many of the cheaper units being wired rather than bluetooth.


In general for that price range topdon would be your best value IMO, but is a little harder to use than Autel. A Pheonix Lite 3 is probably the best option at 800, or you can get the very similar older model for 700. AESWAVE is where I buy all my stuff as I use it for work and want official US market stuff and will pay more for it.

If you're buying a grey market tool on Amazon, I'd lean towards an 808 autel, and save the money. It would have less capability than the Topdon unit, but to get into something like a 906 autel from an authorized supplier you're talking 1300. Frankly looking at Amazon all the 906 products are about the same so you'd be better off just buying a US market tool.

Looking at Amazon the 808 series tools have an upgrade which makes them wireless listed as the 900, and it claims full bidirectional for ~625.


Having used software from the big 3, snap on, autel, launch family are in increasing order of difficulty to use. Not that any of them wouldn't be overwhelming with options for a new user.

 

[cgrutt]

I'm just a DIYer and have an Autel 808P I found it to be a surprisingly capable scanner. Supports many vehicles and various systems within those vehicles (eg engine, transmission, abs, etc). It would not link up to one of my friend's late model Hondas but has worked on everything else (including other Hondas). It's a lot of scanner for the money (I paid in the $750 range a couple years ago). The processor isn't as fast as others so loading software takes a little time. Screen is on smaller side but still functional.

Just an observation about fuel trims... note some manufacturers call it different things so just be aware if you're using factory versions of software (included on the Autel's etc) you may not find a PID for S/T and L/T fuel trims. It may be called Lambda or other variations depending on vehicle you're working on.

I'm pretty happy with the 808P overall and it has paid for itself a few times over with various repairs I've made. If I'd had to buy again I'd probably step up to a pro level tool.

 

[mikey03]

Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to make a good decision

ive been watching reviews of the models discussed here and comments about the hardware and processor speed come up as complaints.

I already have a pretty new iPad and laptop. I would think I should be able to get some dongle that lets me use the hardware I already have since I bet a large chunk of the $500 cost is the tablet itself. I know someone linked a dongle above and I thought I’d rather have a standalone model but now I’m thinking maybe a dongle would be good

I could use my existing ipad, iPad case, iPad charger, it’s already connected to my WiFi and printer, it haw the latest iOS and not a 4 or 5 year old android OS, I can take screen records and screenshots easily, I could get a heavy duty waterproof case to put it into when I’m doing car stuff, when the battery dies there’s always a way to get a new iPad battery

i just assumed the software wouldn’t be as good as a standalone model but is there any dongle that has software that’s as good as a standalone scan tool? even if it’s like $500 for the dongle and app, I’d probably be getting something better than a $500 scan tool since I wouldn’t be paying for any hardware

I got a cheaper dongle a while back and some $10 app on the AppStore and it didnt give me much info.

 

[AA/FC]

Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to make a good decision

ive been watching reviews of the models discussed here and comments about the hardware and processor speed come up as complaints.

I already have a pretty new iPad and laptop. I would think I should be able to get some dongle that lets me use the hardware I already have since I bet a large chunk of the $500 cost is the tablet itself. I know someone linked a dongle above and I thought I’d rather have a standalone model but now I’m thinking maybe a dongle would be good

I could use my existing ipad, iPad case, iPad charger, it’s already connected to my WiFi and printer, it haw the latest iOS and not a 4 or 5 year old android OS, I can take screen records and screenshots easily, I could get a heavy duty waterproof case to put it into when I’m doing car stuff, when the battery dies there’s always a way to get a new iPad battery

i just assumed the software wouldn’t be as good as a standalone model but is there any dongle that has software that’s as good as a standalone scan tool? even if it’s like $500 for the dongle and app, I’d probably be getting something better than a $500 scan tool since I wouldn’t be paying for any hardware

I got a cheaper dongle a while back and some $10 app on the AppStore and it didnt give me much info.

You can.... but it wont be 100% full bidirectional. Not yet anyway. But's it's coming, I'm sure of it.

The best OBDII dongle that I've used yet is the Xtool A30-M. It operates on your phone or tablet exactly like their scan tools and it does have a good amount of bidirectional controls. (of course everything is dependent on the vehicle you're connected to at any given time) However, it is missing SOME things like "resets" and "relearns".

For example, it will typically allow you to turn on/off pretty much any device like fans, fuel pump, horn, evap solenoids, windows up/down, etc... But it will NOT typically allow things like crank re-learns or reset certain modules, etc... It's the best bang for the buck in the entire scan tool industry that I have found for people would are looking specifically for an OBDII dongle based scan tool. It's a one-time purchase price with free lifetime updates. Most dongle based systems charge extra annual fees for certain functions..... not with Xtool. Everything is included with the original purchase price. Last I looked, it was $200 bucks. (give or take)

I have tried the Autel and the Topdon OBDII dongles and they both ****. (and I'm a BIG Autel fan) I know for sure Autel charges extra for certain functions. Even ABS brake bleeding is an extra fee. The are very clunky to operate and the on-screen menu layout is not very intuitive. I sent the Topdon OBDII dongle back right away so I don't know if they charge extra but that dongle was pretty bad. Maybe it's better now. I had one of the early versions for testing. With the Xtool dongle, the screen on your device looks EXACTLY like the screen on an Xtool scan tool.

Some people do not like Xtool.... And I get it, to each his own.
I have had the pleasure to personally test 9 different Xtool scan tool models and I've had very good luck with them so far.

Just my $0.02

 

[richfinn]

Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to make a good decision

ive been watching reviews of the models discussed here and comments about the hardware and processor speed come up as complaints.

I already have a pretty new iPad and laptop. I would think I should be able to get some dongle that lets me use the hardware I already have since I bet a large chunk of the $500 cost is the tablet itself. I know someone linked a dongle above and I thought I’d rather have a standalone model but now I’m thinking maybe a dongle would be good

I could use my existing ipad, iPad case, iPad charger, it’s already connected to my WiFi and printer, it haw the latest iOS and not a 4 or 5 year old android OS, I can take screen records and screenshots easily, I could get a heavy duty waterproof case to put it into when I’m doing car stuff, when the battery dies there’s always a way to get a new iPad battery

i just assumed the software wouldn’t be as good as a standalone model but is there any dongle that has software that’s as good as a standalone scan tool? even if it’s like $500 for the dongle and app, I’d probably be getting something better than a $500 scan tool since I wouldn’t be paying for any hardware

I got a cheaper dongle a while back and some $10 app on the AppStore and it didnt give me much info.

Thinktool/Thinkcar PRO is pretty much global Launch X431/Topdon software for Android devices.

You always need an internet connection for it to work properly though

Launch X431 Tablets are basically older Lenova Tablets in a nicely done robust protective case with a very good steering wheel hanger (this for me is the best thing since sliced bread).

There are some very good aftermarket manufacturer specific Windows systems like VCDS (VW/Audi) and Forscan (Ford/Mazda) which get closer to OE performance but cover way less brands.

I've never really messed with Apple products, but most pro equipment (in dealerships) is Windows based.

Chinese aftermarket is mostly always Android.

 

[Schurkey]

When it was my money twenty-plus years ago, I bought a Snappy MTG2500. Extremely rudimentary 2-channel graphing. The older MT2500 has zero graphing ability.
MT2500 pictured. MTG similar.


Incomplete listing of Snappy vehicle specific adapters and keys.


When the MTG2500 got damaged a few years ago, I upgraded two generations into a Solus Pro. It's a real improvement in many areas, not the least of which is the graphing ability.


There's been substantial talk of Snappy Modis; and that's fine. The Modis family is a Solus-family scan tool, PLUS a 'scope, all in one housing. A real 2- or 4-channel 'scope is a wonderfully useful tool. BUT--for automotive on-board computer diagnosis, you don't need a "scope", when the scan tool can graph sensor outputs. In fact, a scan-tool graph of the various computer sensors is BETTER than a 'scope, because it includes the wiring harness between the sensor and the computer. The scan tool graph shows what the computer is receiving, not just what the sensor itself is outputting--potentially into damaged wiring. As icing on the cake, you can verify ALL the sensors with a scan tool in about the time it takes to back-probe one or two sensors for use with the 'scope.

I don't mean to **** on the idea of having a 'scope. I own two, a Snappy Counselor II, arguably the finest automotive oscilloscope of all time but also decades old.
Counselor II screenshot. Testing fuel pump current draw through each bar of the pump-motor armature. Average amperage draw a bit more than six amps, peaks higher.


I also have a Matco-branded OTC-sourced two-channel scope that I'm just getting used-to, and it is over a decade obsolete--no "known good" sensor waveforms programmed into it newer than...2007, maybe. MY preference is to have separate devices--a scan tool, and a 'scope, that can be used independently.
(Shadows on the 'scope screen are an artifact of the camera. The screen is perfectly viewable in real life.)


Upper trace is the amperage draw of each armature bar of the cooling fan motor. If I remember right, the lower trace is the AC ripple of the battery charger...but I don't remember for sure.


Of the two, the Solus Pro scan tool is more useful to me than the 'scope for diagnosing the computer-controlled systems. IF my Solus Pro were lost, damaged, or stolen...I'd buy another in the Solus line of scan tools. Perhaps a Solus Pro with 14.2 software or newer, perhaps a Solus Ultra, or maybe a Solus Edge. Probably not a Solus Legend as it would be too new and therefore too expensive. The trick with the Solus series is to get the newest software you can afford, because 1) Snappy improved the features even on some older vehicles. Example: 8.2 (2008, 2nd quarter) software will not auto-bleed the ABS on my '97 K2500, but 14.2 (2014, 2nd quarter) will; and 2) Snap-on support for the '2500 series, Solus, Solus Pro, probably Solus Ultra has ended. There are no updates, no repairs, no parts except what might be in common with their newer scan tools. The software you get with the tool is the software you're probably stuck with. That said...I got a Solus Pro 8.2, with a working battery, battery charger, a bunch of OBD1 adapters that complimented the ones I already had from my MTG2500, an OBD2 adapter plus twenty-something Personality Keys, operator's manuals on DVD, various cables, and a bigass suitcase to carry it around with, for $350 from a seller on eBay, shipped to my door about 2--3 years ago. Bideninflation will have made a similar set more expensive now.

A history of Snappy diagnostic tools (incomplete, and no longer current--but it's what I have available.)

 

[Wrench97]

One more thing if you work on newer chrysler vehicles, 2018 and newer, is you need autoauth subscription. No matter what scan tool you have from what I understand. I have only run into one vehicle I needed that for and couldn't get into the computers on the vehicle. But it's only a matter of time now before I will need it. Need to look into it more so I'm ready when that time comes.

Newer Fords are doing the same thing.

 

[Wrench97]

Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to make a good decision

ive been watching reviews of the models discussed here and comments about the hardware and processor speed come up as complaints.

I already have a pretty new iPad and laptop. I would think I should be able to get some dongle that lets me use the hardware I already have since I bet a large chunk of the $500 cost is the tablet itself. I know someone linked a dongle above and I thought I’d rather have a standalone model but now I’m thinking maybe a dongle would be good

I could use my existing ipad, iPad case, iPad charger, it’s already connected to my WiFi and printer, it haw the latest iOS and not a 4 or 5 year old android OS, I can take screen records and screenshots easily, I could get a heavy duty waterproof case to put it into when I’m doing car stuff, when the battery dies there’s always a way to get a new iPad battery

i just assumed the software wouldn’t be as good as a standalone model but is there any dongle that has software that’s as good as a standalone scan tool? even if it’s like $500 for the dongle and app, I’d probably be getting something better than a $500 scan tool since I wouldn’t be paying for any hardware

I got a cheaper dongle a while back and some $10 app on the AppStore and it didnt give me much info.

It's the software you're paying for the hardware usually is a couple generations back from the latest and greatest as the requirements are not steep or demanding. Autel MK808 **, Launch X431 are decent all around tools in the less then $600 area, I've heard decent stuff about the Topdon tools but haven't had one in my hands.
Each tool brand and software update on some have a learning curve while you find out how they work and in which category they put different data pids.

 

[mikey03]

You always need an internet connection for it to work properly though

oh man my internet is spotty sometimes, do any of the standalone tools require constant internet to work?