bczygan
Well-known member
What are good used machines, affordable for the home shop? Prices?
Hunter DSP8500?
Hunter DSP8500?
Good Tire Machines?
- Thread starter bczygan
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HomeTheaterMan
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- Apr 3, 2016
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I have a Hunter TC3250 and a DSP 9000. Both work well for home use. I bought them both pretty cheap off of Craigslist from a body shop. I'd try to find a shop selling machines cheap.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Technically, that is a balancer. Tire machines take tires on and off rims.
Expect to to drop another $100-$250 in getting it tuned up and calibrated.
Expect to to drop another $100-$250 in getting it tuned up and calibrated.
Heel2toe
Well-known member
Bumping this back up. Im looking to pickup this exact same setup and was curious if you dont mind me asking what you paid for them? Prices seem to be all over the map but it also seems to depend on what accessories they come with i.e the tire pusher cylinder which seems to be a pricey add on. The unit Im looking at doesnt have that but Im thinking the price might be right to make it worthwhile.
Have you done any low profile tires or something with a very stiff sidewall? iof so how well did it work? As far as the balancer is there anything worth mentioning that you wish it had or something to look out for?
This would be for personal use but at the same time I need to be able to R&R a 285/30-18 race tire which has very stiff sidewalls so while I dont need the best of the best I want something that is capable without destroying my rims or tires.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The trick to mount/demount low profile/stiff side wall tires is good tire lube and the proper technique. Usually blocks or something else are required to hold the bead opposite of where you are working down into the drop center. Old school is blocks of hardwood, but there are other tools out there.
Watch some of the No-Mar videos on YouTube. They demonstrate the technique I described.
Also old school, Murphy's Original Concentrated Tire and Tube Mounting Compound or Murphy's White Tire Mounting Euro Paste for Low Profile Tires. It is reusable if you use too much.
Heel2toe
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. Good to know about the lube; Ill be sure to pick up a tub of something good vs just using some dish soap which I've used in the past for lawn tractor tires.
As far as technique is concerned I guess that'll come in time, hopefully.
I can pick up some of those block clamp things if it would facilitate the process. The biggest thing I want to make sure of is that the machine I am picking up is capable of the task at hand. And I also want to make sure that even though Ill be using a tire iron that I wont be gouging up my wheels.
I plan to pick up a plastic sleeve protector for both the bead breaker and the tire iron to be sure and the machine comes with a plastic duckhead and rubber pads that clamp onto the wheel so that is promising.
All I know if everytime I bring my tires to be mounted my guy get pissed and tells me how much he hates my tires bc of the short extra stiff sidewall. So maybe in time I will feel his pain but the hope is as you mentioned with careful planning and proper technique it should be smooth sailing.
As far as technique is concerned I guess that'll come in time, hopefully.
I can pick up some of those block clamp things if it would facilitate the process. The biggest thing I want to make sure of is that the machine I am picking up is capable of the task at hand. And I also want to make sure that even though Ill be using a tire iron that I wont be gouging up my wheels.
I plan to pick up a plastic sleeve protector for both the bead breaker and the tire iron to be sure and the machine comes with a plastic duckhead and rubber pads that clamp onto the wheel so that is promising.
All I know if everytime I bring my tires to be mounted my guy get pissed and tells me how much he hates my tires bc of the short extra stiff sidewall. So maybe in time I will feel his pain but the hope is as you mentioned with careful planning and proper technique it should be smooth sailing.
I just picked up a used Coats AX 5060 and am well pleased at this point. I was using the older type Coats 4040. It was sufficient for steel wheels in the 13 to 15 inch sizes, but not for the todays larger steel and mag wheels. Even without the correct motorcycle slide grips , I have been able to do a couple of motorcycle tire changes. Several folks on ebay sell complete refurbished unit at 3 K, and used range from 15 to 2500. The older 4040 are out there in 500 dollar range. Both need an ample amount of air....5 to 15 gallon compressors just won t do it......it s just what satisfies your needs.....
IndyGarage
Well-known member
I've been using the cheapest Atlas, (chinese made rim clamp changer from Greg Smith Equipment ) for about 5 years and it works fine.
They aren't very complex machines. The mechanical structure is what makes it work, and they are all pretty much the same.
Low profile tires aren't really hard to do. I've done 11 inch rims with 35 series tires using wooden blocks as described above. It just takes a couple more minutes.
The hardest tires that I've had to work on were my 20 inch truck rims with 285 size offroad E series tires. The sidewalls and tires are very stiff, and there's not much extra room to work.
They aren't very complex machines. The mechanical structure is what makes it work, and they are all pretty much the same.
Low profile tires aren't really hard to do. I've done 11 inch rims with 35 series tires using wooden blocks as described above. It just takes a couple more minutes.
The hardest tires that I've had to work on were my 20 inch truck rims with 285 size offroad E series tires. The sidewalls and tires are very stiff, and there's not much extra room to work.
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HomeTheaterMan
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- Apr 3, 2016
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- 493
I paid $1,000 for the machine and balancer. The balancer came with all cones necessary, but didn't include any wheel weights or tools. My machine also doesn't have the add on helper arm that can be purchased separately. I don't really need it for the type of tires I generally do.
I haven't done any super low profile tires on this machine, but I have on other machines. They are a huge pain no matter how you do them. They don't flex easily so it's hard to keep the tire pushed down like you need. This makes it very easy to rip the bead, essentially ruining the tire. I definitely recommend using clamps to hold the tire in the drop center of the wheel. This is the clamp I use:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Tire-Changer-...%3Aca05763f15b0aa1a04fbea9ffffd03b8%7Ciid%3A9
However, they also make ropes with clamps on it such as this:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Bead-Drop-Cen...%3Aca05763f15b0aa1a04fbea9ffffd03b8%7Ciid%3A5
A friend that works at a shop prefers that style, but both work well.
This machine does work well for that style tire. Better than some others. I also haven't had any issues with the plastic duck head scratching wheels, but it does ride against the wheel instead of being touch less and locking away from it like on other machines.
Imo, the duck head is the biggest flaw to this machine. If you're dealing with difficult tires (which you will be with low profiles) it breaks pretty easily. Make sure you keep a few spares on hand. The last thing you want to do is to have to order one and wait a week while you're in the middle of changing a tire.
As for the balancer, I don't have any complaints. It seems to work well. I do a lot of 33" and 35" tires and even though you can gear it straining to stop them, it still works great and does all I ask of it. I've found the cheapest place to get wheel weights has been Advance Auto combined with coupon codes that you can use on their website. Wheel weights are a little more expensive than I'd have expected.
All in all in very happy with both machines. They work great for what I do. One thing to keep in mind is that you have to do a lot of tires to pay for these things. If you ruin a low profile tire which isn't hard to do, it gets even more expensive. If I was just doing low profile tires, I'd probably let someone else do it. That said, to me it's worth it. I have a lot of vehicles, so I am doing tires pretty often. Now I don't have to take half a day off of work each time, wait while someone does it, then how they are balanced correctly. I can just do them whenever is convenient for me and I can know that they are balanced correctly.
sberry
Banned
How many tires do you have to do?
Heel2toe
Well-known member
Thanks for all the feedback guys much appreciated. Those clamps look interesting. I watched a few videos to get a feel for what role they serve and I guess it might be something cheap that could make my life easier. I certainly do not want to rip a tire as some are quite expensive i.e ~$320 a pop.
Its not that I will solely be doing low profile tires as Im sure Ill end up doing tires for family and close friends who drive everything under the sun. But being that one of my main motivators is for my own vehicles the thing that goes through tires most often will end up being the hardest tires to change. I have 3 sets of wheels for that car to give you an idea of where Im coming from.
At the moment I need to do 4 tires but one of my sets I would like to dismount and flip to get some more life out of them. And those probably only have a couple events left on them anyway so in the next couple months Ill prob have done 12 tires just for that one car.
The ROI is certainly there and I am going in on the machines with a good friend so we'll be splitting the cost. One of the things I wanted to establish was that the machine Im about to pull the trigger was capable of handling tires of that nature.
And also being that that Hometheaterman picked up the exact setup I was curious on his personal feedback as well as what he paid given he mentioned he got it for cheap. I plan to meet up with the seller tonight. He is asking $800 for each machine but Im hoping to end up closer to the $1200 mark all said and done. We shall see...
Its not that I will solely be doing low profile tires as Im sure Ill end up doing tires for family and close friends who drive everything under the sun. But being that one of my main motivators is for my own vehicles the thing that goes through tires most often will end up being the hardest tires to change. I have 3 sets of wheels for that car to give you an idea of where Im coming from.
At the moment I need to do 4 tires but one of my sets I would like to dismount and flip to get some more life out of them. And those probably only have a couple events left on them anyway so in the next couple months Ill prob have done 12 tires just for that one car.
The ROI is certainly there and I am going in on the machines with a good friend so we'll be splitting the cost. One of the things I wanted to establish was that the machine Im about to pull the trigger was capable of handling tires of that nature.
And also being that that Hometheaterman picked up the exact setup I was curious on his personal feedback as well as what he paid given he mentioned he got it for cheap. I plan to meet up with the seller tonight. He is asking $800 for each machine but Im hoping to end up closer to the $1200 mark all said and done. We shall see...
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Even a manual machine (HF, Northern) will work, with a few minor modification. Cover any metal that will contact the wheel. The No-Mar mount/demount bar has a lifetime warranty and will not scratch.
Machine "capability" has almost nothing to do with it. Only the top of the line machines are truly "touchless", but the rest can do the job.
Improper technique will damage either the tire or the rim or both.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
This is a knock off of the No-Mar XTRAHAND® CLAMP TIRE TOOL but at <50% of the price. If HomeTheaterMan says it works, buy 2 or 3.
A couple of video worth watching that prove technique really is the most important thing unless you are doing dozens of tires per day.
No-Mar Tire Changer - Tire changing basics
No-Mar Tire Changer - How to use the Mount / Demount Bar
I learned on a manual machine (yes, automatic machine existed at that time ... I am NOT THAT OLD !). I really did not understand all of the techniques we have discussed nor did I always have lube available. The worst case was changing racing tires on rims that had very extreme offsets. The tire had to be flipped over to get to bead tool to break down the other side. (Of course, working in a gravel parking lot, in 90F sunshine did not help !)
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Heel2toe
Well-known member
Im happy to report that I pulled the trigger and officially have a TC3250 as well as DSP9000 sitting in my garage! They both seem to be in good shape, scuffs and things like that but both are operable. Getting the machines into and out of the truck was interesting to say the least but thankfully there was a 2 post lift at the shop they came out of and we were able to do the same thing in my garage to lower it down in conjunction with straps.
Hopefully this weekend I will have some time to clean them up as currently anytime I touch them my hands become filthy...not surprising tires aren't exactly the cleanest things! From there I need to find a good place to keep the machines which means Ill be playing some garage musical chairs. Then I need to sort of what I plan to do with running a new dedicated air line. I'll probably just use my welder plug for the balancer as opposed to running a dedicated circuit at least for the time being.
But I really want to get organized and make a list of some tools that I should pick up. I got a ton of wheel weights but Ill be using mostly stick on weights which means the majority of the clamp on ones will just sit there.
I need to pick up a good bucket of lube. Seems there are many different styles but that Murphy's brand seemed to be well regarded. Is this the same stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AZA9QWS/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Seems some are much thinner and tend to be cut down with water. Should I be using different types of lube?
It came with a tire iron but Im thinking it might be wise to pick up a different one or at the very least grab a protective sleeve for it so it wont mark up the wheels. Also the bead breaker shovel is another thing that I think would be wise to protect.
The clamp tools are a great idea so Ill either pick up a few of those or the set on the string. After watching a couple videos I see how that'll come into play.
The only other thing and the biggest thing right now is in regards to the plumbing of the system. For starters the whip going to the machine is old and brittle and leaking so that'll be replaced. No biggie. However, im reading a lot of mixed info in regards to the supply line pressure needed. My compressor is up to the task, Champion two stage unit, however in its current configuration I have the pressure switch set to shut off around 130# and conpressor kicks on around 115ish I wanna say. I currently have all my air lines going to a main water separator and regulator where its turned down to about 110# then branches off from there. I could tee off right before the water separator and regulator so the machine will see whatever pressure is in the compressor tank but Id prefer not to from a simplicity sake and I miss out of one extra water trap.
I know I can crank up my compressor but so far from everything that I've needed it for ranging from impact gun to cutoff wheel, die grinder to blast cabinet I've been able to run it at 100% duty cycle without it falling off so I didnt see the point to the higher pressure.
So it leaves me with a decision and was hoping to gather feedback. Would you run a separate drop that bypasses the regulator or just tap in after the regulator keep it set to 110# and hope for the best and assuming that doesnt have enough powa just crank up the regulator anytime I need to do tires?
Im really excited to get this thing operable as you can probably imagine its a dream come true, haha! But first I'd like to come up with a plan and make a list of parts to ensure proper execution.
Hopefully this weekend I will have some time to clean them up as currently anytime I touch them my hands become filthy...not surprising tires aren't exactly the cleanest things! From there I need to find a good place to keep the machines which means Ill be playing some garage musical chairs. Then I need to sort of what I plan to do with running a new dedicated air line. I'll probably just use my welder plug for the balancer as opposed to running a dedicated circuit at least for the time being.
But I really want to get organized and make a list of some tools that I should pick up. I got a ton of wheel weights but Ill be using mostly stick on weights which means the majority of the clamp on ones will just sit there.
I need to pick up a good bucket of lube. Seems there are many different styles but that Murphy's brand seemed to be well regarded. Is this the same stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AZA9QWS/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Seems some are much thinner and tend to be cut down with water. Should I be using different types of lube?
It came with a tire iron but Im thinking it might be wise to pick up a different one or at the very least grab a protective sleeve for it so it wont mark up the wheels. Also the bead breaker shovel is another thing that I think would be wise to protect.
The clamp tools are a great idea so Ill either pick up a few of those or the set on the string. After watching a couple videos I see how that'll come into play.
The only other thing and the biggest thing right now is in regards to the plumbing of the system. For starters the whip going to the machine is old and brittle and leaking so that'll be replaced. No biggie. However, im reading a lot of mixed info in regards to the supply line pressure needed. My compressor is up to the task, Champion two stage unit, however in its current configuration I have the pressure switch set to shut off around 130# and conpressor kicks on around 115ish I wanna say. I currently have all my air lines going to a main water separator and regulator where its turned down to about 110# then branches off from there. I could tee off right before the water separator and regulator so the machine will see whatever pressure is in the compressor tank but Id prefer not to from a simplicity sake and I miss out of one extra water trap.
I know I can crank up my compressor but so far from everything that I've needed it for ranging from impact gun to cutoff wheel, die grinder to blast cabinet I've been able to run it at 100% duty cycle without it falling off so I didnt see the point to the higher pressure.
So it leaves me with a decision and was hoping to gather feedback. Would you run a separate drop that bypasses the regulator or just tap in after the regulator keep it set to 110# and hope for the best and assuming that doesnt have enough powa just crank up the regulator anytime I need to do tires?
Im really excited to get this thing operable as you can probably imagine its a dream come true, haha! But first I'd like to come up with a plan and make a list of parts to ensure proper execution.
sberry
Banned
If you have a 2 stage comp it should be set 130-135 to 175 and to a regulator, I added a t and a ball valve to my machine after the reg. Turn valve on when you need the machine. The point of 2 stage is for constant, you can set the reg 120-130 depending on typical demand and hose length and it is constant.
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Heel2toe
Well-known member
I dont follow. Are you sugguesting I set the tank pressure to 175 and have the pressure switch to kick back on around the 130-135 range? Is so thats an added call it 40# increase in pressure. I guess the question is what is the benefit to me by doing that?
My compressor is a 2 stage Champion with a 5hp Baldor motor. I dont know the CFM of the unit its nothing crazy but its a nice compressor and given my needs so far has worked out quite well. Im happy to turn it up if there is a benefit just seemed like where I had it it was working well and didnt see the benifit for the added stress on the compressor.
My compressor is a 2 stage Champion with a 5hp Baldor motor. I dont know the CFM of the unit its nothing crazy but its a nice compressor and given my needs so far has worked out quite well. Im happy to turn it up if there is a benefit just seemed like where I had it it was working well and didnt see the benifit for the added stress on the compressor.
sberry
Banned
The point is stored energy, it's the reason for 2 stage. There is ample headroom to make up for transmission loss and have constant supply above the requlator setting. At low pressure and single stage it is turning off just as 2 stage is kicking on, delivers full power all the time where single is only there when it's fully pumped. With small singles the power is only good for few seconds while tank is full and depleted at kick on.
sberry
Banned
Tools usually rated at 90 in at the tool, a 1/2 impact would need 135 to a 50 ft hose, 3/8, to get it at the tool.
Heel2toe
Well-known member
Thanks for the additional feedback. My only point from having the pressure switch set lower was that it was high enough to allow me to do everything needed without any downtime.
Now, of course the more pressure in the tank the more stored air(energy) so I guess it would mean that I have more headroom before the compressor would need to kick on.
Keep in mind that this isnt a commercial shop; its just my garage so there will only be one person using air at any given time. Sure Ill have a buddy over here and there but its not like were grinding away at the same time.
But to keep this on point and the reason this discussion transitioned into a compressor conversation is that Im trying to determine what the air requirements would be for the tire machine. If I have the reg set to 110 Im guessing that wont be enough for it to function properly? I hooked it up temporarily and I got the table to spin and the clamps to spread at 110 at the reg but maybe its underpowered and will struggle to spin under load or wont have enough to seat the bead? Of course nothing beats experimentation but it would be good to know if I should try and bypass my current regulator. Id prefer to not have to do that though for various reasons so maybe the answer is to crank up the reg when I need to do tires and turn it back down after...
Now, of course the more pressure in the tank the more stored air(energy) so I guess it would mean that I have more headroom before the compressor would need to kick on.
Keep in mind that this isnt a commercial shop; its just my garage so there will only be one person using air at any given time. Sure Ill have a buddy over here and there but its not like were grinding away at the same time.
But to keep this on point and the reason this discussion transitioned into a compressor conversation is that Im trying to determine what the air requirements would be for the tire machine. If I have the reg set to 110 Im guessing that wont be enough for it to function properly? I hooked it up temporarily and I got the table to spin and the clamps to spread at 110 at the reg but maybe its underpowered and will struggle to spin under load or wont have enough to seat the bead? Of course nothing beats experimentation but it would be good to know if I should try and bypass my current regulator. Id prefer to not have to do that though for various reasons so maybe the answer is to crank up the reg when I need to do tires and turn it back down after...
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Not the same stuff I recommended
This can be thinned down with water and sprayed. Seeing as you want to mount low profile you want want a "euro compound" which are specifically designed for low profile, stiff sidewall tires. You might have to have an "old fashioned" parts store order it for you.
For you guys with home tire machines who sometimes have a problem getting beads to seat.
How to Seat a Bead with Murphy's Soap for Tires by All Tire Supply
Heel2toe
Well-known member
OK didnt think so. I actually struggled finding a place that sells the Murphy's paste. I ended up placing an order from this site yesterday so fingers crossed it end up being the correct stuff.
http://www.toolsbyotto.com/product/europaste-8lb-bucket/115
The picture is wrong but they refer to it as the europaste so maybe I'll get lucky. It was quite cheap too which is cool I guess.
I plan to organize the garage this weekend and find a nice spot to tuck the two machines into and sort out the plumbing. Do you have any feedback on air pressure and what you found was required for the machine to effectively operate? If not then I'll start experimenting. The good news is that my compressor should be up to the task at hand so a few simple adjustments will be all I need assuming I need to crank it up some.
http://www.toolsbyotto.com/product/europaste-8lb-bucket/115
The picture is wrong but they refer to it as the europaste so maybe I'll get lucky. It was quite cheap too which is cool I guess.
I plan to organize the garage this weekend and find a nice spot to tuck the two machines into and sort out the plumbing. Do you have any feedback on air pressure and what you found was required for the machine to effectively operate? If not then I'll start experimenting. The good news is that my compressor should be up to the task at hand so a few simple adjustments will be all I need assuming I need to crank it up some.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Many years ago, I did work at a tire store that had machines similar to Coats 4040 (these were blue). I don't recall what pressure they ran at, but it could not have been more than 100-125 because that is all that the air system had.
Make sure to get your sidewall hold down tools before trying any low profile tires. Keeping as much of the side wall just ahead of 180° opposite of where your mount/demount bar down in the "drop center" is key !
Make sure to get your sidewall hold down tools before trying any low profile tires. Keeping as much of the side wall just ahead of 180° opposite of where your mount/demount bar down in the "drop center" is key !
Heel2toe
Well-known member
Thanks for your feedback. Headed home from work in a few and hope to play around with it some this weekend. I haven't purchased hold down tools yet and am on the fence between the single clamp ( x2 or 3) or the kind on string that you linked above. Seems the clamp has more flexibility as I can crank it down so that may be the route Ill take.
But my goal for the weekend along with other misc tasks like hopefully cutting the lawn if the rain halts for a few hours is to get the machines in a safe place tucked away and get them plumbed. I'll keep you posted with how everything goes. Have a good weekend and thanks again!
But my goal for the weekend along with other misc tasks like hopefully cutting the lawn if the rain halts for a few hours is to get the machines in a safe place tucked away and get them plumbed. I'll keep you posted with how everything goes. Have a good weekend and thanks again!