Got a Snap-On Classic 96 box

[gnxtc2]

So I ended up being high bidder on this box on E-Bay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/snap-on-too...DNicX0O2Rb3OO0BWUbhBI%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

The seller is located about 1 hour from me. I contact the seller and told him that I would like to come up to pick it up and pay cash for it. He calls me and says "No problem" and confirms that the price is $3000. I tell him no, I was the highest bidder with a price of $1678.79. He says that he still owes Snap-On $3K for it and there was suppose to be a Reserve and Buy it Now price. I guess he never checked his ad when it was over.

He tells me that he has to call E-Bay to straighten it out. He call me back and E-Bay tore into him. He was never suppose to sell the box because he didn't own it outright and that it was a normal aution ad. He says that he feels bad. So he proposes this to me:

I come up with the difference from the aution end price to what he owes Snap-On and he will let me have the box and a 1996 Lexus ES300 with 187K. Yes, I know the mileage. The car had a leaking Y-Pipe and leaking P/S pressure line. His wife was bothering him to get rid of the car because the front Y pipe was leaking. Oh, yea the car was also on E-Bay. Yes, the title was clear.

So I made a few phone calls and decided to come up with the rest. My buddy and I drove up, loaded the box in my truck and trailered the car back.

I get the car back and replaced the line ($40 from Rock Auto). Everything worked on the car, it was a good commuter car for a train/bus station or a first car for a teenager. If I didn't have three vehicles already, I would have kept it for a beater. So, I parked the car in my friend's gas station for exposure and a guy bought it this afternoon for $1300

So I got a 1.5 year old Snap-On Classic 96 box for a little over $1700.

I wonder if he is going to pay Snap-On off???

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[toddacimer]

Nice box. Shady deal. Good luck

 

[Scsbronco]

That is a great looking box!

 

[zkling]

Really nice box

I wonder if he is going to pay Snap-On off???

Billy T.
[email protected]

I really hope he does, because as it sits now legally (and I may be wrong on this) I don't think that box belongs to either you or the seller, but to snap on. I hope it works out for you. If it was me, I probably would have just wanted out of the deal. Too many possible negative outcomes.

 

[gnxtc2]

Really nice box



I really hope he does, because as it sits now legally (and I may be wrong on this) I don't think that box belongs to either you or the seller, but to snap on. I hope it works out for you. If it was me, I probably would have just wanted out of the deal. Too many possible negative outcomes.

Thanks

I have no contract with Snap On. My deal was with the seller. I did nothing illegal to acquire the box. It was not reported stolen. If the seller does not pay Snap On, Snap On goes after him not me.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[tonym]

looks like it cleaned up good...

 

[James E]

I wouldn't sweat it. If he didn't intend to pay off the SnapOn man, he wouldn't have been so freaked out about getting full price.

That's a sweet box for $1,700. May I be the first to say, you ****.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Nice box Billy, for once it looks like Karma has been good to you for all the **** you had to deal with the BG thieves.

 

[lynnbilodeau]

Thanks

I have no contract with Snap On. My deal was with the seller. I did nothing illegal to acquire the box. It was not reported stolen. If the seller does not pay Snap On, Snap On goes after him not me.

Billy T.
[email protected]

While I hope this works out well for you, it does not matter that you have no contract with snap on if you had actual knowledge of the lien.

 

[James E]

We got into this discussion awhile back and we never got a good answer. I even asked several people here at the bank about it and none of them could say definitively whether or not SnapOn could repossess a box from a third party.

Since boxes are not titled, the best that SnapOn can do is file a UCC lien against the box. That protects their ownership of the box legally but does not physically prevent someone from selling the box to a third party.

When that happens, I have no idea what legal recourse SnapOn would have as far as repossessing the box from the third party--especially if the third party had a bill of sale in hand. I suspect that SnapOn does NOT have the legal ability to go onto the property of the third party and repossess but I am not an attorney so this opinion is worth nothing.

I know from talking to the guys at my work who make loans for equipment that below a certain value, they will not repossess that stuff--the cost is too high. Assuming the SnapOn man could even track the box down, I doubt he'd come after it unless it was easy to reach and one of the super-high-Dollar boxes.

 

[James E]

Also, there are at least two SnapOn dealers on the board and none of them chimed in with a definitive answer. This leads me to believe that they don't have the power to repo from a third party and just like the idea that they can to float out there to discourage these things from happening.

At any rate, again, in this particular case, the seller of the box was upfront and told the OP he owed money on the box and needed to pay it back. That leads me to believe that he did.

 

[ChevyEFI]

thanks

i have no contract with snap on. My deal was with the seller. I did nothing illegal to acquire the box. It was not reported stolen. If the seller does not pay snap on, snap on goes after him not me.

Billy t.
[email protected]

lol.

 

[gnxtc2]

lol.

What's so funny?

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[nehog]

...
I wonder if he is going to pay Snap-On off???
...

You should have paid off Snap-On when you picked it up, or insisted that he get a lien release from Snap-On. I think it is unlikely he'll pay it off now as cash in hand does that to people. Bottom line: it is not your box unless it has a clear title, and you'd lose if Snap-On wants it back.

What will happen if he doesn't pay it off is that he'll be pressured to give up the box. He doesn't have it, you do. So he'll be pressured to tell them (either Snap-On or a court if it goes there) who bought it.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

 

[James E]

You should have paid off Snap-On when you picked it up, or insisted that he get a lien release from Snap-On. I think it is unlikely he'll pay it off now as cash in hand does that to people. Bottom line: it is not your box unless it has a clear title, and you'd lose if Snap-On wants it back.

What will happen if he doesn't pay it off is that he'll be pressured to give up the box. He doesn't have it, you do. So he'll be pressured to tell them (either Snap-On or a court if it goes there) who bought it.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

Again, toolboxes are not titled.

For the sake of argument, what pressure would the SnapOn man have to put on the original buyer? It's a civil case and the police won't want to get involved. The only leverage that the SnapOn man has is a potential judgement against the original buyer--and the kind of guy who would sell a box and not pay it off is the kind of guy who doesn't give a damn whether or not he has a judgement against him.

While I agree that it would have been a good idea for the OP to make sure that the original buyer paid off his loan, I seriously doubt that the SnapOn man has any legal recourse against the OP. Picking up a box at the workplace of the guy you sold a box to is one thing. Tracking down a third party, getting legal access to his property and repossessing a box from that guy is entirely another animal. Especially considering that the third party bought and paid for the box in good faith.

Liens don't always allow for repossession if a buyer defaults. Sometimes they only allow for collection of a debt and the collateral is lost.

But, by now, this discussion has boiled down to opinions. I'd really like to hear what a SnapOn or Mac guy has to say about this. We'll not know the real answer until they do.

 

[NUTTSGT]

OP bought the car in good faith as proof he also purchased the Lexus which did have a title. That Lexus title, the seller signed his name to and released to the buyer. As a matter of fact, the buyer went above and beyond for the seller to pay off the box by purchasing the car in the deal.

The seller is an adult and responsible for his own actions. He was given money for the box and the car. If he chooses not to pay off Snap-on, that responsibility falls directly on him. Any lawyer would have no problem showing that in a court, which I highly doubt Billy would ever see.


If I was the buyer, I wouldn't lose a nights sleep over it.

 

[devilsnight]

If your really concerned about it, which you don't seem to be, and i wouldn't either.... I'd just peel the ID label off the back of it and call it a day. It's not like they rivet this nice serial plate on the boxes anymore that they could even identify it.

 

[gnxtc2]

OP bought the car in good faith as proof he also purchased the Lexus which did have a title. That Lexus title, the seller signed his name to and released to the buyer. As a matter of fact, the buyer went above and beyond for the seller to pay off the box by purchasing the car in the deal.

The seller is an adult and responsible for his own actions. He was given money for the box and the car. If he chooses not to pay off Snap-on, that responsibility falls directly on him. Any lawyer would have no problem showing that in a court, which I highly doubt Billy would ever see.


If I was the buyer, I wouldn't lose a nights sleep over it.

Thanks Eric and trust me, I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

We discussed this at work. Snap On has no recourse against me. Snap On can't even file a theft report because the seller was paying the box off. Once you begin to make payments on a loan, it's now a civil matter. The contract was between the original buyer and Snap On.

So I can basically tell Snap On to piss up a rope.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[nehog]

Again, toolboxes are not titled.
...

The term 'title' need not be a formal state issued document. Title is the term used to denote true ownership. Everything has 'title', your car and house, your tools, your tool box, your BBQ grill, everything. Title doesn't have to be written, but it still exists.

A question that the OP might want to ask himself is... If Snap-On calls and says "You have a tool box you got from XYZ and this box belongs to us, and we want it back..." what do you reply? If you say yes, they'll probably pick it up. If you say "drop dead, I own it..." are you prepared to go the full distance to retain it?

One question that has not been asked or answered is what documentation (paperwork) did the seller give? A bill of sale or anything? For something like this it would have been best to have a document stating that they box was sold to him, and that the seller owned the item free and clear (which he did not.)

At this stage one can only hope that either the seller does pay off his debt(s) to Snap-On, or that Snap-On doesn't wish to pursue it any further.

 

[NUTTSGT]

T



One question that has not been asked or answered is what documentation (paperwork) did the seller give? A bill of sale or anything? For something like this it would have been best to have a document stating that they box was sold to him, and that the seller owned the item free and clear (which he did not.)

Paper work, all he has to do is reference the closed Ebay. Once you bid on an item, I believe Ebay considers it a legally binding contract. Nowhere in the ad did it say that the seller still owed money on this box.

 

[nehog]

Paper work, all he has to do is reference the closed Ebay. Once you bid on an item, I believe Ebay considers it a legally binding contract. Nowhere in the ad did it say that the seller still owed money on this box.

That doesn't change things, even if he (the seller) sold it fraudulently on eBay, that doesn't necessarily give the buyer a clear title to the item.

One could certainly lay a world of hurt on the seller (if local authorities will cooperate) for criminal fraud perhaps, and that could come from either Snap-On or from the buyer.

Only time will tell if this deal will go sour, I'm kinda thinking that the buyer will never hear any more about it--regardless of whether the seller pays his debt(s) or not.

 

[Mr. D]

Come on people, it's a tool box. Snap On has better things to do than run around the country looking for tool boxes.

 

[dankicksass]

Nice box, and a sweet deal.

 

[Toolman12]

gnxtc2 Nice box i have the classic 78 and have been looking at the 96 for awhile now just can't seem to get a deal like that congrats on your score and by the way You ****!!!!

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I don't think the OP has anything to worry about. Enjoy your box.

What I would like to know was how did eBay respond to the seller. You won the auction and then he said he screwed up with the reserve. What does eBay do about this? Obviously they can't force someone to hand something over, but they must do something right?

 

[ptschram]

1: If a buyer knows that something has not been paid for, it is not a good-faith purchase.

2: Snap-On HAS a UCC lien on that box as the charge for it is a line item for every credit sales purchase.

3: I don't know, nor care if S-O will go after this box, but there are folks from SOT and SOC who surf this site. If they are looking for evidence of copyright violations and pursue those as vigorously as they do, they may well decide to pursue this-in the event the original buyer doesn't make the debt good.

Personally, I'd not want to be bothered by repossessing something from other than the original buyer, but I would aggressively pursue the original buyer-just like the kid I chased down this morning and the old boy I'll be visiting at his house again today to try to retrieve some of MY tools.

As a side note, if I am asked to warranty something on a box and the label has been removed, you will not be receiving any warranty parts for that box as it may have been scrapped by S-O and the label removed to indicate this.

 

[Bigplum]

You must have very different rules over there , credit agreements in the UK clearly state that it does not belong to the buyer until the final payment is made , therefore it was not the sellers property to sell . Safest way would have been to tie up with snap on and clear the debt with them .( with a token payment to the seller for clearing His debt)

Pretty sure it would go down as fraud / selling stolen goods for him
And for the buyer nailed for receiving stolen goods

How does the credit agreement work ?
Does the local snap on guy get stiffed for bad payments ?
UK police would love a nice case like this , nice easy paper trail to follow with names and addresses , also we have a nice collection of debt chasing arseholes that work on commission that would stick on you like glue .

As a example of our police policy , there was a spate of 4x4's being stolen from Japan then shipped to England (via the Arab states to get new identities)
UK police had great fun in seizing them from the unsuspecting new owners , leaving people in the S*it no car no money , for a car crime committed on the other side of the world !
A nice easy case and a bump up for solved crime statistics

 

[john11139]

Interesting post. Some time ago I bought a Matco tool box off of Craig list. At a price almost too good to be true. The fellow showed me the sales receipt where he paid for it. He took another job where his tool box was furnished. I found a even better box ( Mac 1900 ) that I really wanted but had to sell this one first. I added my gas money to the Matco and put it on Craig list again. I had two Matco dealers call me wanting the serial #. off the box. I wouldn't give it to them but told them to give me the serial # and names of people they thought had originally bought it and if it matched I would call them. (and I would have). I gave them my name and phone # if they wanted to make a appointment to see it. They never showed up. I think they might have just been fishing. I don't know if this Snap-on would come under the mechanics lien or not. I paid a contractor for some work and material only to have the supplier of the material put a lien on my house.

 

[ptschram]

I don't know if this Snap-on would come under the mechanics lien or not.

There is most likely a real UCC loan perfection lien on the box.