Got this little vise coming from E bay

[bubinga]

Didn't know if you guys saw this in the craftsman vise hot deals thread, thought I'd show it here.
I thought it looked sweet, had to have it.
Got it for $40.00 shipped.
Called a Craftsman Jr. 3" wide jaws.
I hope its as nice as It looks.

 

[balane]

Manufactured by Rock Island. Exposed screw vises don't have a ton of admirers here but, for what it is, that is a solid little vise and will serve you well if not abused and expectations kept within its scope. I've attached a photo of a Rock Island version similar to your vise. (The one in the photo has modified jaws.) Rock Island made fantastic, over-built vises.

.

 

[bubinga]

Good to Know, Thanks, No I will take it easy on it.
It's just for over in the other room where I have the metal lathe, if l want to hold something little to file. There will be no pressing U joints in with it. LOL.

 

[bubinga]

Balane, and others, Well, too late, but do you guys think I paid too much for the little craftsman (jr.) vise?

 

[Davefr]

Balane, and others, Well, too late, but do you guys think I paid too much for the little craftsman (jr.) vise?

Sorry to say this but yes.

From image 2 and 6 it looks like a big chunk of cast iron has broken from underneath the stationary jaw. The jaw also shows substantial abuse.

You're not out a whole lot, but the condition looks poor from the images.

It should still be usable for small projects.

 

[DSLTRK]

Balane, and others, Well, too late, but do you guys think I paid too much for the little craftsman (jr.) vise?

Eh, who cares.. Paint it up an enjoy having a piece of American tool history.

 

[Zrexxer]

Yeah, somebody has whaled on that little vise with a hammer. It looks like most of the ledge has broken out from under both jaws, actually.

 

[sgs236]

As long as the two screws hold the static jaw pad securely, I think you did ok on it. A little bit of JB Weld and paint will fix up all the cosmetic issues.

 

[bubinga]

No, if there is a chunk broken out of it, I am going to pitch a *****.
No wonder he took $40.00 shipped Right away.
Im sorry, I am not seeing where it is broken, can someone please edit the pictures with
a arrow and text showing the damage.
That is B/S, that should have been noted in the AD.
Maybe I can catch him before he ships it, and get a refund.

 

[bubinga]

No, $40.00 is a lot to me. I don't want to be JB welding this Item.
I just sent a request, that he refund my Money, and not ship the Item, so as I do not have to file a claim with e bay.
This is the trouble with this On line sales.
A lot of times, you can't see the stuff that is damaged.
So now I am waiting for a reply.

 

[balane]

Here you go. This should have been disclosed in the listing details for sure however it was clearly shown if these are the photos from his posting.

.

 

[Davefr]

Adding some brightness helps too:

 

[Farmall450]

I have one too OP, and I like it for what it is.

 

[PugetDude]

No, if there is a chunk broken out of it, I am going to pitch a *****.
No wonder he took $40.00 shipped Right away.
Im sorry, I am not seeing where it is broken, can someone please edit the pictures with
a arrow and text showing the damage.
That is B/S, that should have been noted in the AD.
Maybe I can catch him before he ships it, and get a refund.

The damage is clearly visible in the pics you posted. Look at the missing chunks in the static jaw in the last picture...hard to miss those... "Pitching a *****" isn't the right way to handle this. You got excited and tossed out a binding offer to purchase exactly what was depicted. Offer was a accepted and a contract was created. Live with it and learn from it.

No wonder eBay is such a *********** anymore.

 

[Davefr]

The damage is clearly visible in the pics you posted. Look at the missing chunks in the static jaw in the last picture...hard to miss those... "Pitching a *****" isn't the right way to handle this. You got excited and tossed out a binding offer to purchase exactly what was depicted. Offer was a accepted and a contract was created. Live with it and learn from it.

No wonder eBay is such a *********** anymore.

^^Not necessarily. It depends on the way it was described in the auction.

 

[balane]

I agree with PugetDude on that. Photos are considered disclosure on eBay and these are certainly definite. I do believe a good seller would have also stated the damage in the auction text as well but some people put very little information in text and rely on photos. If he made inaccurate description of the vise in his text such as, "Vise in great or perfect condition" then you could have a case.

I went ahead and located the auction;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261842887494

His description text states only, "Craftsman 3" Vise Please See Pictures For More Inf."

I've added a few photos from the auction listing, some that weren't in your post here.

Sorry to say but this vise wasn't sold under false description and the seller is not at fault here. He could have done a better job describing it but his pictures absolutely tell the story.

If he'll cancel it then great but if not you'll need to return it and cover shipping on your dime in my opinion.

.

 

[bubinga]

Here you go. This should have been disclosed in the listing details for sure however it was clearly shown if these are the photos from his posting.
.

Thanks for showing the damage.
I sent him the photos, a requested that he not ship the Item, and return my
payment.
I stated so I would not have to file a claim with e bay.
Yeah, there from his posting.
I couldn't tell apparently.

 

[Zrexxer]

I agree with PugetDude on that. Photos are considered disclosure on eBay and these are certainly definite..

While that may meet the "letter" of the law, I for one feel that if a seller knows about damage, then it should certainly be described in the auction, rather than taking a "look at the pictures and don't bother me with questions" attitude. Of course, there's always the possibility that the seller just didn't know enough about vises to recognize it - now that he's been made aware of the damage we'll see soon enough what kind of seller he is.

 

[abk241]

bubinga...It sounds like you stayed cool with your request to the seller.
If he is a decent guy he will just cancel the sale and refund your payment.
There is a form that the seller may request you fill out - you need to do that so that the seller can recoup the fees fleabay has already charged him for this sale.
It's been a few years since I've dealt with anything ebay so I won't try and give you any further advice than to say that you should use their help pages to learn how to handle this return properly.

 

[bubinga]

Still have not heard back.
I am hoping he responds.
Thank you all for your help.

 

[Davefr]

You'll probably win if you elevate it to Ebay.

1. Ebay requires sellers to describe flaws and defects in their listings. The seller's description did not mention the broken ledge.

2. He listed it as "used" which allows for cosmetic defects. He should have listed it as "parts or repair" because the broken off ledges are "missing essential components".

All this is in Ebay's selling rules and definitions.

The seller will probably agree to cancel the transaction. He will want to maintain his 100% feedback.

 

[BFBOB]

Sorry to say this but yes.

From image 2 and 6 it looks like a big chunk of cast iron has broken from underneath the stationary jaw. The jaw also shows substantial abuse.

Yep, sad to say, but the entire jaw perch on the static jaw is broken off, and about 3/4 of the dynamic jaw perch. That means there's nothing locating the jaw inserts vertically but the screws. (and the small amount of the dynamic perch that's left, visible in photo 2) ... of course, you're not supposed to be beating on the jaws in the first place.

 

[BFBOB]

I think you've taken the right approach, a calm request to cancel. Looking at the rest of his pix, I'd have to say there was no attempt to conceal the damage. Since the only verbal description was "used", you can't claim it was "Not as described". Somewhere buried in the mountains of eBay rules is that the pictures ARE a part of the description.
All that said, if you really think you're in the right and file a dispute, with eBay's current climate you will probably win. You'll have to decide for yourself how to proceed.

Now aren't you glad you asked us? If you hadn't, you probably would have loved the vise and never noticed the broken bits!

Please let us know how it all comes out.

 

[Ign]

The Wilton CBV-100 was my earlier reco, esp if you're just wanting to hold small parts to file. Quality action like a Wilton, just in a smaller package. 4" jaws but only about 2.25" jaw opening.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/321507560291?nav=SEARCH

 

[goforride57]

No way in hell I would buy a used vice off eBay. A new Wilton on the other hand...as long as it's new...

 

[bubinga]

For me personally, I would never file a claim on a seller when the issue at hand is clearly visible in the listing pictures. It would just be a "I will be more careful when purchasing in the future" type learning experience for me. I would hope that the claim would be denied by Ebay if I was the seller and in this situation. If the problem with the tool is not explained in the description or visible in the listing pictures, then I think the buyer is fully justified to file a claim or return the item. That would be a clear case of the buyer not getting what was expected.

I understand what your saying in one way,
But I did just not notice, Maybe I do not know enough myself.
It looked fine to me.
I did not notice in the pictures, or surely would not have made the deal.

Maybe this damage was obvious to many of you, but unfortunately, not to me.

I think he is purposely not answering me,
I wrote this AM, and said Thanks, and Bla Bla Bla, and asked a question about if he sand blasted it, or if it was painted or anything.
That was say, at 10:00 Eastern time. about, 02:17 PM eastern time, I 1st wrote about the damage, then about 3:30 eastern time, he wrote back, and said, "Your welcome, No, I did not sand blast it, The color and texture was like that since it was new" Or something to that effect.
But then I wrote back, and said" Didn't you get my other e mail's, and put the pictures in again, and have heard nothing back yet.
Like he is ignoring me.
I even asked (again) if he did not see my e mails, or was choosing to not answer, and to please refund my pay pal amount, and Not mail the vise.
Still nothing. (I was polite about it though, I did not "mouth off")
Thanks Guys.

 

[bubinga]

OK, Hold everything,
He must have not known either??
And is being decent about it.
he still did not write back, but l just went to my e mail, and saw this,
Thanks again for your help, and I hope l learned a lesson, at not too much (well free really) of a $$$$$ cost.
Ign, thanks for the link, I'll look (carefully.....LOL.....) at it.

 

[bubinga]

The Wilton CBV-100 was my earlier reco, esp if you're just wanting to hold small parts to file. Quality action like a Wilton, just in a smaller package. 4" jaws but only about 2.25" jaw opening.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/321507560291?nav=SEARCH

IGN that is a sweet looking little vise too.
Maybe I will consider one of them
And free shipping on over $50.00 too!!

That's nice it turned out the way it did. Everyone learned a lesson, and no one had to lose money for that lesson to be learned.

Thank You..................

No way in hell I would buy a used vice off eBay. A new Wilton on the other hand...as long as it's new...

That is what I am now thinking..........................
part of that "Lesson learned thing"

I think you've taken the right approach, a calm request to cancel. Looking at the rest of his pix, I'd have to say there was no attempt to conceal the damage. Since the only verbal description was "used", you can't claim it was "Not as described". Somewhere buried in the mountains of eBay rules is that the pictures ARE a part of the description.
All that said, if you really think you're in the right and file a dispute, with eBay's current climate you will probably win. You'll have to decide for yourself how to proceed.
Now aren't you glad you asked us? If you hadn't, you probably would have loved the vise and never noticed the broken bits!
Please let us know how it all comes out.

LOL.....LOL.....Your Right, Maybe, But I think l would have noticed "in person".
Yeah, he might not have known either.

Thanks a Million You guys.

 

[balane]

Congrats on the amicable resolution!

 

[Canoe50]

While that may meet the "letter" of the law, I for one feel that if a seller knows about damage, then it should certainly be described in the auction, rather than taking a "look at the pictures and don't bother me with questions" attitude. Of course, there's always the possibility that the seller just didn't know enough about vises to recognize it - now that he's been made aware of the damage we'll see soon enough what kind of seller he is.

That's my feeling as well. If I were selling something on ebay, Craig's list, whatever, I would certainly describe ANY damage, defects, issues (if any) & then show it with pictures. As a buyer, that's what I would expect & hope to get from any seller.
In this case it is possible the seller wasn't aware of the damage. Good to see he refunded the money to the OP w/o any hassle.

 

[Canoe50]

I don't know if it applies to you bubinga, but one thing that many people don't realize is that there's a good percentage of Ebay buyers that are buying from their smart phones etc, not from a desktop with a large monitor. It might not be easy for all buyers to see imperfections, damage, etc. even if it is clearly visible when the listing pictures are viewed full size. That's where the listing accuracy gray area really starts to come into play in my opinion. I know I would be very hesitant to buy anything used if I could only see it on a 4" screen before making my decision.

I hear where you're coming from, but IMO there should be no gray area in accuracy in listing something for sale. If you knowingly list something for sale that has damage (as in this case) or issues, then describe the damage & show it with pictures. Knowingly being the key word.
Given the seller refunded the money to the OP immediately & where the damage was, it is possible he was unaware of it.

 

[srmofo]

Meh, I think you paid what it is worth. Where you got hosed was with shipping. I bet it cost $15 to ship that thing if it is packaged well. And if it wasn't you'll probably never get it anyway

I bought 3 vises a few years ago on ebay, local pickup only from a school. Pictures were terrible, but stated all were in working order and good shape.
I get there and jaws are damaged, mounting eats are broken off, and one had a broken screw nut. I tried backing out and the ***** said she consisted them picked up and would throw them away if abandoned there. I reluctantly took them, and then filed a complaint went I got home. It was a 4 hour round trip she wanted me to make again to return them. EBay thought that was unfair and she could pay for return shipping if she wanted them back. Rather than cutting her losses with scrap iron, she wanted them back. I made sure they were properly packaged as a final FU for being such a *****. I want even upset about the wasted drive as it was a gorgeous springs day, I just didn't want to make it again

 

[bubinga]

well Thanks Again guys,
I was able to score this Columbian Vise off craigs list for $50.00.
Was pretty well local, about 16 miles one way. easy drive, lived right off the Highway.
he had $50.00 or best offer, but his wife was showing it, and I asked if she had been told a bottom line, and she called him, and he said No, $50.00 firm, cause he had had so many calls after me. but he held it for me to look at first.

 

[balane]

Much better vise and deal. That 4" Columbian is a tough guy.

 

[michiganman18]

Eh, who cares.. Paint it up an enjoy having a piece of American tool history.

The deed is done. I agree

 

[bubinga]

That Columbian is a much nicer vise, it is just too bad that yours has that large hairline crack right under the... Just kidding.

LOL had me going for a second.

 

[bubinga]

wow this Craftsman Jr. went for $46.00 plus $11.00 shipping
so I guess the $50.00 l gave for my 504 was pretty good.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371306417439?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

damn it, wrong pictures.
thats the $5.00 craftsman I re did, not the Columbian.You probably all saw the Columbian done any ways.

 

[Fugio]

If it makes you feel any better, one of my old beater vises I use out in the yard is that same size, and it's jaw support material has mostly eroded away. It's probably been this way for decades. Still works just fine.

 

[bubinga]

thanks, well I never did get that 1st one, he ended up giving me my $$ back, and not sending it.
in case ya didn't see the $5.00 craftsman, heres the befores.

 

[Fugio]

Nice work! $5 well spent!!!