Grading and Footers..

[NeverEnoughSpace]

Well I'm at the point where I need to learn OR pay someone a good chunk of change to grade and make the footers for the 50X100 metal building I need.

I talked to a local steel building erector in TN (Where were moving to.) and he qouted me 3 dollars per square foot just for the labor to erect it, so I think I'll tackle that part myself.

For 15g's I can buy a decent used backhoe and use that to raise the beams among various other duties I'll need around the property.

Anyways, can anyone share any websites/ books or insight into grading?

the garage will have a septic system as well, which I am going to do my own perc test before I pay someone, just to make sure the spot will perc out.

The projected area is already pretty flat but "may" be a little low for great runoff so if given the choice I would like to raise up the slab area a bit too.

I realize this is a big undertaking for a noob but I have a lot of free time to study and learn so if at all possible I would love to do it all myself.

Thanks, Jeremy

 

[PAToyota]

Learning to grade level and true is an artform - unfortunately, you cannot be guaranteed to be able to hire someone to do it properly either... Plus, using old equipment that may be "loose" in the controls doesn't help matters. Then there is the matter of properly compacting the "lifts" so that you don't get settlement and if you do a sloppy job excavating for the footers you're going to end up spending more on concrete. I'd say best to get the excavation and grading done properly and then go from their yourself. You know what they say about building a good foundation...

 

[Hurricane]

im in the excavating business so i think i may be able to help you. it takes a LONG time to learn the trade and a lot of seat time. theres more to the business than you think. the time, fuel, and concrete that you will waste will more than pay the cost for to have somebody qualified do the job. anybody whos ever sat on a piece of equipment will chime in and say that they can run this or that, but a qualified operator will get more work done in a day than most could do in a week.

furthermore, the backhoe would only be good for doing the footing work. you would need a skid loader or highlift to do the grading on the pad. you need to find somebody willing to do the work on the side if you want to save some money. you can move a lot of dirt for $15,000.

if you dont take my advice i can give you some do's/dont's on moving the material, but it takes years of experience to learn the look and feel of actually running the equipment. i mean if it were as easy as reading about it on the internet, then the guys doing that work would be making the same money as the kid flipping burgers at mcdonalds
________
Kawasaki KLX450R

 

[twostory]

I did all the work for my footers, stem wall, slab prep, etc. It is possible, but my lot did not need grading, I just scraped off the top soil, dug the footers, formed the footers and poured concrete. I did this in one day with a small excavator.

After the stem walls were up, I had to bring in 8 dump trucks of fill dirt and one dump truck of #57 gravel. I did this work in 1.5 days, with a skid steer and vibrating sheeps foot roller. I had to fill in a 41 inch deep concrete box. My lot slopes down 41 inches from the front of the garage to the back. I compacted the dirt in 4 inch lifts, That was about what one dump truck load of dirt would cover, so it worked out well.

My advice, if your actually have to clear your land, and do some major dirt moving, I would probably get a professional. They have bigger bull dozers and other gear, and will get the job done better and faster that you can. My rental equipment cost me around $2,000 for the footer/fill/etc work I did.

Your 50x100 building is four times the size of my 26x44 building, so your work is 4 times what I did.

Now if your land is aready flat and cleared, and you just need to dig some and pour footers, or just scrap top soil, spread gravel and pour a monolitic slab, you could do it yourself, or just pay a pro to grade (it would only take a pro 1/2 day to deal with this kinda job)

I would get some quotes, and price out equipment rentals. If you do any sorta fill work, you must compact the dirt with a vibrating sheeps foot roller.

Also read up on fill dirt, it must be the right level of wetness, too dry it will not compact, too wet and it is mud that will not compact right either.

 

[NeverEnoughSpace]

Thanks for the replys.

I forgot to mention this is cleared land that would need next to no grading besides "if" the slab were to be raised a little to insure good run off.

Hurricane- your point is well taken but a "kid at McDonalds" doesn't have the drive or means that I do. Thanks for sharing your knowledge though.

Twostory- Thanks for the write up, I now have a few more things to investigate.

 

[W-Cummins]

Well I'm at the point where I need to learn OR pay someone a good chunk of change to grade and make the footers for the 50X100 metal building I need.

Sounds good, you will want to look at mine on the link below

I talked to a local steel building erector in TN (Where were moving to.) and he qouted me 3 dollars per square foot just for the labor to erect it, so I think I'll tackle that part myself.

Jump all over that it will be the best 15k you ever spent!

For 15g's I can buy a decent used backhoe and use that to raise the beams among various other duties I'll need around the property.

Well mine was more like $27k and you will NEED a man lift to do the job so that's another $7-10k

the garage will have a septic system as well, which I am going to do my own perc test before I pay someone, just to make sure the spot will perc out.

You should have paied some one to preform the test before you purchased the land! The septic system is one place you might save some money by running the backhoe, but after you deduct the cost of your new laser level from the savings:-( I guess to be fair you could rent it. but you will want some one to hold the pole.

The projected area is already pretty flat but "may" be a little low for great runoff so if given the choice I would like to raise up the slab area a bit too.

Well as others have noted you will need to compact the fill and the back hoe is not really suited for that job( you can get a hydropacker for it but they are way more $$ than just paying some one to do the job!)

I realize this is a big undertaking for a noob but I have a lot of free time to study and learn so if at all possible I would love to do it all myself.

It's a HUGE undertaking and I know you can't do it all by your self with out major problems. You would have to pour the footing and floor in really small sections if you planed on finishing it your self. The roofing sheets will be too long to install by one person etc...

Take a look at my build and you can see whats required to put one up....

William...

 

[Junkman]

You said the land was cleared, but were the stumps removed, or just cut at ground level? If they were dug out, what did they do with them? Hope that they weren't buried in a place where you plan on building. If building were so easy, then there wouldn't be any building contractors. There are a lot of people that can do things themselves, if they have the knowledge and time to do it, however, if you don't have both, then you would be better off paying someone that has the experience. This is too big a project to waste a lot of money on, and not have it right in the end.

 

[1320stang]

Don't put in a regular septic system, put in an anerobic system, no lateral lines that way.

 

[trovato]

Don't put in a regular septic system, put in an anerobic system, no lateral lines that way.

Did you mean to say aerobic? I thought a "regular" septic system was anaerobic.

 

[W-Cummins]

Did you mean to say aerobic? I thought a "regular" septic system was anaerobic.

A conventional system ( tank and drain field) is both, the tank is anaerobic and the drain field is aerobic.

William....

 

[NeverEnoughSpace]

The projected build site is cleared and has been for quit awhile now, no visible stumps or anything else protruding from the ground, or pot holes for that matter.

The 3 dollars a sq foot quote was just for the erection of the building, not grading/footer/slab work, sorry if I confused some of you.

I was really wanting to cut my teeth on this project because I plan on building our house in the near future and thought I could learn a lot from it.

It's becoming clear that the size and time limit I'm on are just not conducive for me to tackle this project. WOW, this thing is going to be very, very expensive.

Please elaborate on the running just a anaerobic system, again I'm moving form the city and know next to nothing about septic systems. I did some research a few weeks ago and learned about the septic tank systems and how it bleeds over to the septic field etc, but I'm not aware of running just a tank.

Oh by the way, where I'm moving does not have enforced building codes, so luckily I do not have permits/inspectors etc to deal with.

Thanks for the help.

 

[AGBill]

"Oh by the way, where I'm moving does not have enforced building codes, so luckily I do not have permits/inspectors etc to deal with."

The whole issue of permits and inspections can quickly become a two edged sword for you and your project......

None of us Garage Wizards has knowledge in all the disciplines including civil engineering, structural design, electrical installation, septic tank design, etc. The permits and inspections make sure things are done right, ultimately for your own good. (Don't I sound like your mother?)

Inspections can be a pain, but they usually result in a better quality project that will meet the minimun code requirements and will be worth more when you sell.

Maybe you are not as lucky as you feel you are....

 

[NeverEnoughSpace]

I knew when I wrote that, that someone would tie that to the quality of the building I want to build, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Paying my local government to "allow" me to build on my private property does NOT help me sleep better at night.

I currently live on the coast line of FL so trust me, Permits and PITA inspectors are one thing I will not miss when we move.

Anyways, government control is a hot button for me and is one of the main reasons I am moving.

BTW Bill, I appreciate the work at your build.

 

[kbs2244]

Even in "unregulated TN" a 50 x 100 foot building is not going to go up with out goverment approval.
Throw in a septic field, and now you have "public health" involved.
Politics aside, you need local, pluged into the system, help.
Like it or not, the days of going off and doing your own thing in the wilds are over in this country.

 

[NeverEnoughSpace]

I am VERY aware of the health issues involved in sanitation and the impact of it in my community, I posted a question about construction, not about sanitation or how I need the government to overlook MY construction of MY property, etc.

But thanks for your insight.

 

[chaingang]

Even in "unregulated TN" a 50 x 100 foot building is not going to go up with out goverment approval.
Throw in a septic field, and now you have "public health" involved.
Politics aside, you need local, pluged into the system, help.
Like it or not, the days of going off and doing your own thing in the wilds are over in this country.

I helped my dad build his last two homes in rural TN over the past 15 years and you would be surprised as to the lack of inspections and code enforcement. Both homes were in very upscale communities, one in the foothills of Townsend TN (gated neighborhood) and the other on Fort Loudon lake. $300K plus homes and the only inspections were electrical and septic, no framing, footings etc..... The drawback was that someone could come in and build a shack or business etc... right next to your new expensive home unless governed by covanents or a HOA, very little zoning.