Gramps Idea for Cooling a Garage

['52Chevy]

So my grandpa passed away a few years back when I was younger. I remember being out in his garage, sweating our b@lls off. He talked about hooking up a cooling system, that I think would be pretty simple, and efficient.

His idea was to get an old radiator, A/C condenser or something of the like. Using a small pump to pump water through it. with a fan on side of it blowing in.

He had a pond near his garage he figured he could run the cool pond water through the radiator and then back into the pond. He also had thoughts about sinking a 55gallon drum into the ground filling it with water and doing the same thing.

It is essentially a geothermal cooling system. He never got to do it before his health deteriorated and he moved into a retirement home. But I thought I would share for anyone who may be able to do this. Also to see if anyone had comments on it.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Sounds like a great idea. You could also add another radiator inline before the radiator in the garage with a fan and a water mist spray to further chill the water.

 

['52Chevy]

That would work as well.

I know this whole system probably wouldn't be quite as good at reducing humidity as an actual A/C unit, but it would remove a lot of it, and cost a lot less in terms of electricity.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Maybe a solar powered pump and fans?

 

[jaymz1967]

A friend of mines Dad had a set up like that.A radiator and cooling fan from a Dodge Omni or similar small Chrysler with an inline fuel pump drawing water from what he called a point well throught a garden hose.He used the discharge to water his tomato plants.I was amazed at the amount of cooling it provided.

 

['52Chevy]

Maybe a solar powered pump and fans?

Now there you go! A solar set up for something that small wouldn't be too difficult or expensive I don't think.

A friend of mines Dad had a set up like that.A radiator and cooling fan from a Dodge Omni or similar small Chrysler with an inline fuel pump drawing water from what he called a point well throught a garden hose.He used the discharge to water his tomato plants.I was amazed at the amount of cooling it provided.

Ah using it to water plants! It would be nice, because you could control the flow of water depending on your needs(as well as fan speed). The thing is you definitely don't want to be just dumping the water down the drain!

 

[Dennis93]

Lol, that's pretty much how the air conditioner was invented. Look it up, it's an interesting read. Pretty much, someone named *** Carrier (carrier equipment) just graduated out of an engineering college and was asked to cool a factory. He came up with the idea of running cold well water through a radiator and putting a fan behind it to cool the area.

 

['52Chevy]

Now that I did not know! Why did something so simple turn into something so complicated?

 

[James-W]

I am not sure that you can legally take water from a stream, or pond, or whatever, run it thru piping and remove heat/cold from it, then return it to the stream, or pond, or whatever. I think you would need to contact the DNR and ask them about it. I have a feeling they will tell you not to do it. I could be dead wrong on this, but I am thinking it may not be legal.

 

[rsanter]

They make those already
They work good only in hot dry climates and have a limited amount of tempature drop they will give.
But they do work

Bob

 

['52Chevy]

I am not sure that you can legally take water from a stream, or pond, or whatever, run it thru piping and remove heat/cold from it, then return it to the stream, or pond, or whatever. I think you would need to contact the DNR and ask them about it. I have a feeling they will tell you not to do it. I could be dead wrong on this, but I am thinking it may not be legal.

I also am not sure on that, but I would imagine if it was on your property, there shouldn't be much of a problem. I know you can plumb it for sprinkler systems. My grandpa has a system the pumps it from the lake she lives on to water her lawn.

 

[jerryd68]

Now that I did not know! Why did something so simple turn into something so complicated?

The reason that it became more complicated is because you can only acheive so much cooling using water as the refrigerant (only sensible heat), a little different with evaprative cooling, but still only down to whatever the wet bulb temp is. With mechanical air cond. or refrigeration the refrigerant (boils) at different temperatures based on pressure. As the refrigerant changes state ( latent heat) much more heat is absorbed by the refrigerant. Mechinical refrigration vapor compression systems have been around since the 1870's.

 

[Rob_b]

I do believe they call those "swamp coolers" and have been around for years.

 

[ishiboo]

Great idea in theory which I've considered as well, but I doubt you would find it worth the electricity to run the pump. The temperature differential is not nearly great enough, you'd need a HUGE radiator and you'd only see a ~5 degree drop on a great day.

Geothermal is better - it uses groundwater (which is cooler) and a heat pump (which is what an AC/reverse cycle heat IS) to essentially transfer the heat inside back into the ground water.

Boats have an unlimited source of (usually) cooler water, so they are set up like geothermal systems - they use basically a standard AC which uses the water to take the heat away from the evaporator coils, thus making them more efficient than using just air. You could use a large (16k) boat AC in a small garage setup, but add in the cost of pumping the water and the increased cost of the marine AC, and it's probably not worth it.

I do believe they call those "swamp coolers" and have been around for years.

A swamp cooler actually puts the moisture into the air, thus increasing (sometimes greatly) the humidity. In many areas (like here in Wisconsin), humidity is already the bigger issue.

 

[rockchucker]

Literally a Swamp Cooler! Use the same Idea as a Swamp Cooler and hook it up.

 

[CNGsaves]

Kind of depends on where the OP is located. If it's low humidity area (ie AZ, NM, etc) then a swamp cooler is sure thing. However, high humidity area like Houston, TX the swamp cooler won't be as effective.

All my childhood, we had swamp cooler in window of chicken house in summer time. With cold well water, it didn't take that much water flow to keep cool water. Garden was right next to chicken house, so tomato plants got watered every time swamp cooler was running.

OP, edit your profile in GJ to at least show your country and state.

 

[egnorant]

I did this many years ago with some leftover parts I had laying around. Basically an old Pontiac radiator in a pond and a couple of garden hoses to a Nova radiator with an old box fan behind it. Had a little sump pump that moved the water. Worked fine until I got a leak and flow stopped.

Bruce

 

[joe_padavano]

I do believe they call those "swamp coolers" and have been around for years.

Correct. Popular in the desert southwest, for exactly the reason noted above - they work really well in hot, dry air; not so well in hot humid air. The mist of water evaporates, cooling the air. If the air is already very humid, the mist can't evaporate, so no cooling effect. You can buy them for a shop:

Port A Cool website

Here's how one works:

 

[EOC_Jason]

Kind of depends on where the OP is located. If it's low humidity area (ie AZ, NM, etc) then a swamp cooler is sure thing. However, high humidity area like Houston, TX the swamp cooler won't be as effective.

Yeah, walked outside this morning and it was so humid your clothes instantly stick to you. You think to yourself, "Ugh, it's going to be one of those days..."

I hate the humidity, but on the flip side I don't know how you people with super low humidity live. When it drops around here (rarely, but sometimes in the winter), I shock the **** out of myself on everything metal... EVERYTHING... And my nose feels like it's going to burn off...

 

[joe_padavano]

I hate the humidity, but on the flip side I don't know how you people with super low humidity live.

I've spent a lot of time in Phoenix in the summer. I'll take 110 deg in Phoenix over 90 deg and 90% here in D.C. any day.

 

[Joe Reed]

You guys talking about two completely different systems on this thread. Some are talking about swamp coolers....others (including the OP) are talking about setting up a water-to-water heat exchanger....

 

[jerryd68]

Doesnt sound like a water to water heat exchanger to me, if you pump 60-70 degree pond water through an old radiator and blow air through it, that would be water to air, a swamp cooler is using the latent heat of the evaporation of the water, one is closed loop the other open.

 

[egnorant]

What I had was a closed loop with water to water heat exchange on one end (in the pond) with water to air exchange in the building.

Bruce

 

[joe_padavano]

You guys talking about two completely different systems on this thread. Some are talking about swamp coolers....others (including the OP) are talking about setting up a water-to-water heat exchanger....

You are partly correct. Now that I re-read the OP, he is NOT talking about a swap cooler. I believe he is talking about a water-to-air cooler, however, not water-to-water. The 60 deg (or whatever) pond water is being used instead of refrigerant to cool the air blowing through the heat exchanger. The problem is that at 60 deg F, you aren't going to get a lot of cooling. The rate of heat transfer is a function of the relative temperature from the air to the coolant, and with 90 deg air and 60 deg water, the 30 deg delta T is a slow heat exchange rate (as opposed to refrigerant at, say 35 deg F in an evaporator). Yeah, you'll get some cooling, just not that much.

 

['52Chevy]

You are partly correct. Now that I re-read the OP, he is NOT talking about a swap cooler. I believe he is talking about a water-to-air cooler, however, not water-to-water. The 60 deg (or whatever) pond water is being used instead of refrigerant to cool the air blowing through the heat exchanger. The problem is that at 60 deg F, you aren't going to get a lot of cooling. The rate of heat transfer is a function of the relative temperature from the air to the coolant, and with 90 deg air and 60 deg water, the 30 deg delta T is a slow heat exchange rate (as opposed to refrigerant at, say 35 deg F in an evaporator). Yeah, you'll get some cooling, just not that much.

Yes, that is what I am talking about. I figure its not going to be super great, or as good as an AC unit, but it will bring the temp down a bit, while pulling a little humidity out of the air. Using a small pump would use less energy than a full air conditioner.

My dad always said, if you heat your garage to just 50 degrees in the winter, thats better than 30, and if you can cool it down to 75 or 80 instead of 90-100 you are still gonna be more comfortable.