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Great Article on Shop Lighting

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cranejon

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Apr 7, 2006
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A really great article.I am designing a lighting plan for a new woodworking shop and would like to as Jack a couple of questions. ie 63 years old, want good light quality...any recommendations on types of t8 tubes. I always hear that light frequency is an issue. Anybody know how to access the questions and comments to sawmillcreek?
Thank you
 

frankush

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IL
Can you expand on "types of T8 tubes"? I've been an electrician for close to 30 years but have never heard the term "light frequency". I'd like to help but don't comprehend either of your questions.
 

trainer

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Nov 28, 2005
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Northern Ontario, Canada
i think frequency refers to the AC hertz (cycles per second ) that the ballast delivers to the bulb.

Magnetic ballasts run at 60 hz and electronic ones at something like 10,000 hz.

60 hz can create an audible buzz and is more likely to cause interferance in electronics
 

JimVonBaden

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Northern Virginia
Interesting article. Lots of good academic information.

Most useful part:
# fixtures = (desired fc) x (shop area) x (2) / (lumens per lamp) x (# lamps per fixture)
= (100 fc) x (1500 sq. ft.) x (2) / (2800 lumens) x (4) = 27 fixtures

Good info about light loss and why too.

Jim :cool:
 

KPSquared

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Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
Can't stand how the 6500k light make colors look. Nothing looks real in that crazy blue/white light. Each to his own.

According to his formula, I'm almost dead on for my lighting layout. Everyone here figured I had way to many lights. . . nothing like a little scientific reinforcement. . .:thumbup:
 

ddawg16

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Good article....thanks for posting Auto....

In regards to frequency....

Magnetic ballasts.....it's actually 120 Hz....if you ever look at the output of an infrared diode detector....you will see the camel hump 120hz on an oscope...

Electronic ballasts.....typically 20KHz
 

Steevo

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Interesting article. Lots of good academic information.

Most useful part:
Quote:
# fixtures = (desired fc) x (shop area) x (2) / (lumens per lamp) x (# lamps per fixture)
= (100 fc) x (1500 sq. ft.) x (2) / (2800 lumens) x (4) = 27 fixtures

Good info about light loss and why too.

Jim :cool:

This is the first time I noticed that formula, so I ran my shop through it.

I used 100 foot candles and 2800 lumens, for my 960 sq/ft space, using 4-bulb fixtures, and came up with 17.142xxx

I have 17 four-bulb T-8 fixtures in my shop, so it looks like I got it just right. Just lucky I guess.
 

383 240z

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Findley Twp. Allegheny Co.
I **** at math. However even with my trusty calculator i keep getting 428 fixtures can somebody please check my homework??

100 FC
1600 SQ FT shop size
2800 Lumens
4 bulbs in a fixture. I'm sure its a procedural error. I seem to remember my high school maths instructor giving me a simple sentance to remind me what operations go in what order. I'll be damned if I can remember it. Keith
 

Ramper

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Southern MN
# fixtures = (desired fc) x (shop area) x (2) / (lumens per lamp) x (# lamps per fixture)


(100 fc) x (1600 sq. ft.) x (2) / (2800 lumens) = 114 lamps

If your fixtures have 4 lamps per fixture you will need 28.5 fixtures

As a math teacher, I think what you did wrong is you multiplied by four instead of divide by four. The math topics you forgot was that the top and the bottom of the fraction must be done separately. Technically the fraction bar is a grouping symbol.

So your could do the top (fc x area) and the bottom (lumens per lamp x # of lamps) and then divide the two values. Or divide twice
 
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djkson

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No matter what K rating you get for fluorescent the CRI number is as, if not more, important.
 

Journaler

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Apr 25, 2012
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Light and electrical are the couple things you don't want to cheap out on! Gotta pay to play!

I'm "light" on both but I have a 2nd row of lights that I can upgrade to 4' fixtures to make it 6 total... and I just ran a separate 100A panel to the garage.

Baby steps.
 
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automobiliben

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Greenville, SC
I'm "light" on both but I have a 2nd row of lights that I can upgrade to 4' fixtures to make it 6 total... and I just ran a separate 100A panel to the garage.

Baby steps.

Good to hear! I blame my Dad for making me need so much light when I am working. I swear he would burn his nose on our trouble light when we were working on cars he would have it so close to his face! And his sight wasn't even bad... :D
 

Slimgene

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Jul 15, 2012
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San Antonio, TX
This is the first time I noticed that formula, so I ran my shop through it.

I used 100 foot candles and 2800 lumens, for my 960 sq/ft space, using 4-bulb fixtures, and came up with 17.142xxx

I have 17 four-bulb T-8 fixtures in my shop, so it looks like I got it just right. Just lucky I guess.
My shop is 864 sq. ft.. If you need 17 I probably need about 16. Unfortunately, i have already laid out the wire for 12 four lamp fixtures. I guess I can add fixtures where needed.
 

Falcon67

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Merkel, TX
The formula at 100fc comes to 17 for me. The budget formula came in at 13. LED flashlights are only $4, so I'll just have to fill in. ;) Actually, it works out to around 73 fc for general and I use a lot of task lighting. The formula puts the main bench light at 300+fc (9600 lumens over 16 sq/ft)
 
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86turbodsl

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Michigan
This is crazy. According to the figures I have, if I was using 8' fixtures, with two 5000 lumen bulbs per fixture, my 2500 ft2 shop needs 50 fixtures, and it will be 6 Kilowatts of lights! that's insane. My electric bill sure can't stand that.
 
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automobiliben

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This is crazy. According to the figures I have, if I was using 8' fixtures, with two 5000 lumen bulbs per fixture, my 2500 ft2 shop needs 50 fixtures, and it will be 6 Kilowatts of lights! that's insane. My electric bill sure can't stand that.

The important thing to note is that this is for a woodworking shop and they are assuming 50% efficiency due to dust coverage on the bulbs.

I am putting 12 lights in my 750sf shop, but will have 8 on 1 switch and 4 on another.
 
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JDewey

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Apr 8, 2012
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Location
San Antonio, TX
I am going to have to go back to our machine shop tomorrow and do a fixture count. The fixture count numbers here look WAY too high. We replaced our metal halide lights last year with 6-bulb T8's fixtures on a 1 for 1 basis and the shop got much brighter. Now that I am finishing out my home shop (2000 sq ft), I did a visual count of the fixtures (22' high ceiling) in the same floor space in our machine shop and came up with 6 fixtures to light the 2000 sq ft shop. If I use the formula here, I need 24 fixtures. I know for a fact that is WAY too much light based upon what I have installed at work. I don't even have 24 fixtures in our entire 15,000 sq ft machine shop and it is bright enough to do wiring inside of cabinets on the floor. I am going to re-confirm what our machine shop is using tomorrow.
 
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automobiliben

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Here is the part in the article on lighting efficiency, I would suggest that people re-read it. If you aren't going to be doing woodworking or something else dusty, you can multiply the number of lights needed by 0.8.

ESTIMATING HOW MANY FIXTURES ARE NEEDED

The first step is to decide what lighting level you want. As previously noted I recommend 100 footcandles unless you are under the age of 25 and will be performing work that is not demanding and is easy to see. If that’s the case you may get by with 50 fc or less. Since 100 fc is a more common recommendation that is the value we will use in this example.

Next let’s calculate how many lamps will be needed using the simplified rule of thumb method which says that 50% of the fixture lumens will reach the work plane when installing open fixtures like strips or industrials in rooms with fairly light colored ceilings and walls. If using enclosed fixtures, which I generally don’t recommend for shops, the figure is closer to 40%. Why only 50%? There are several reasons. First, not all of the light gets out of the fixture. Some hits fixture surfaces where it is absorbed and lost. Some light hits the walls and other building surfaces where it, too can be absorbed. That loss can easily be 25% or more. And over time the light output of a fluorescent lamp decreases due to a deterioration of the light producing phosphors and a buildup of tungsten which evaporates from the cathodes and deposits on the bulb wall. On average we can expect the typical T8 system to lose 10% to 15% of its initial output due to depreciation within the lamp.

Another significant loss occurs from the buildup of dirt on fixture and lamp surfaces. If you doubt this simply wipe a lamp that has been operating in a workshop for a year or more with a white cloth. Over time you can easily lose an additional 10% to 20% even in a relatively clean shop. Dirt accumulation on walls and ceilings accounts for additional losses.
 

JDewey

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Apr 8, 2012
Messages
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Location
San Antonio, TX
I checked out our machine shop yesterday. It is approx. 10,000 sq ft. There are 32ea 6-bulb T8 fixtures in this area. In an area of 2000 sq ft (the size of my new shop), there are 6ea 6-bulb t8 fixtures at approx. 16 ft from the floor. I have enclosed photos of our shop with the lighting. Short story - the calculation that says I need 24ea 6-bulb fixtures in my 2000 sq ft shop is way out of line. Although our machine shop has 6ea 6-bulb fixtures in the same area, I am going to add 2 more and have a total of 8ea 6-bulb T8 fixtures and believe that will be more than enough light for a fabrication/repair shop. The painting area will obviously have more, but that is enough for the shop. Check out the photos of our machine shop. It is 25' between vertical beams and 2 rows of lights are within approx. 40' of shop width.
 

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Ch3No2

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Nov 27, 2009
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15 4 tube T8 lights , 10' ceiling and this section is 880 sq ft and its on 4 switches....when all 4 are on its daylight. I went with the dual ballast fixtures for better light control...I can have 10, 20, 40 or 60 tubes on at anytime
 

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eriksalo

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Nov 29, 2007
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184
Location
Colorado
Great article. For my personal shop, I made sure to set it up so I could turn on various zones. In a commercial shop, it's OK to turn on all the lights all the time. For a personal shop, sometimes it's better to have the control of turning on only certain areas.
 

911mike

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May 22, 2010
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Location
michigan
I ran eight 6 bulb fixtures with T-5 bulbs. My work shop is 600 sq. ft with a 14ft ceiling. The key is dual ballast fixture where one ballast runs 2 bulbs and the other runs 4 bulbs. I have seperate switches for each so I can run 2 bulbs, 4 bulbs or both to get 6 bulbs. Depending on what I'm doing I can pick the correct amount of light for the task. You can't get enough light as you get older!! When I was 30 as flashlight was fine and now at 50 I need a mini sun.
 
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