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Grinding Tool Comparisons and Prep Advice

Armorpoxy

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Hi,
A number of you have asked us via PM or by calling about grinding and prep advice so we thought we would repost some helpful info. We also own a large surface prep company so we have real-world experience with prep work.

Generally for a standard, non sealed, non coated bare concrete floor acid etching works just fine. We have tens of thousands of our Armorclad Kits installed this way with excellent results.

If your floor has a sealer, previous coating or other issue, then mechanical surface prep is a good idea.

At the less expensive end of the spectrum is renting a Diamabrush from a rental place or Home Depot. These pads have spring mounted diamond pads on them and fit on a floor buffer. They work well for scratching up and profiling the floor, but do very little 'grinding' easily. There isn't enough downward weight to grind much. They also can be hard to control, and unless you make a dust shroud, create tons of dust. Photos of the Diamabrush pads vs. standard diamond pads are below. Make sure if you rent to check the usage and age of the pads as only the edge gets much use and they tend to wear out fast, so need changing often. Don't rent an old beat up set.

The next step is using an actual diamond floor grinder. These can usually be rented from tool rental stores and some home centers. They are heavier, have dust shrouds, and use much larger diamond pads that are thick and wear down evenly so as they wear new diamonds are exposed so a set that is half worn down is just as good as a brand new set, unlike Diamabrush diamonds. Hard concrete should use 'soft bond' tooling as the metal wears away faster exposing the more diamonds. Soft older concrete should use 'hard bond' tooling which wears slower keeping the diamonds exposed properly and not prematurely wearing out. Diamond floor grinders attach to vacuums that should be designed for this usage, as inexpensive shop vacs will plug up fast and you will lose suction and have a very dusty job. Try to rent the proper vac with a grinder. Examples of diamond floor grinder tooling pads a re shown below. They come in different grits from very aggressive to super fine used for concrete floor polishing. For general use a #40 or #80 works well. Finally the much higher downward weight of a grinder allows for more actual grinding and smoothing to get accomplished.

We don't recommend shot blasting in a garage since these are very aggressive and in the hands of a novice user can create a lot of damage.

Lastly if you mechanically prep we strongly urge the use of epoxy primer as prepping makes the floor more porous, so it needs priming with the appropriate matched primer so that the expensive epoxy doesn't soak in and leave an uneven, blotchy result.

We hope this is helpful. Please email us at [email protected] if we can assist further. Many thanks!
 

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LegacyIndustrial

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We removed a 1000 sq ft epoxy system in a customers garage due to an installer using the acid etch method, this past week.

The best method for a DIY is the Diamabrush System. Take your time and do it right.

The Home Depot and the majority of rental locations have no idea what hard/soft bond mean. They have one offering and its take it or leave it. In metro areas you may get lucky and find some selection.

Here is a shot of the removal and it didn't have to happen.

f87f4f5fd5f06b719479dead87384d27.jpg

Here is the Diamabrush System and it is grinding, not scratching.
dfada5698d11d0fa310d8cfb67267ad6.jpg

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Armorpoxy

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We agree that mechanical prep is always better but many clients don't have the budget or a nearby rental place. Most likely what happened at this project was an inferior epoxy poorly installed.

We know from almost 20 years of experience selling and installing that in many applications etching works just fine with our Armorclad.

Other company's products may demand mechanical prep but ours usually does not due to its formulation and bonding characteristics.

We carry and sell lots of Diamabrush products, and have been a master distributor for them for many years, and have many customers use them and like them, including some of our commercial accounts. The above is noted to just explain the differences, since we get so many calls and messages asking about theses products and prep methods, and seek to inform GJ members to the best of our ability.


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LegacyIndustrial

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We recommend the "do it right or don't buy our product" method.

We also get calls from many customers who took vendor recommendations that were short cuts to make a buck and some, surprisingly, come from vendors on this site. Go figure.




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Armorpoxy

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We completely agree. Follow the manufacturers recommendations or contact them for advice on their products. Some products are easier to install than others and have features or benefits that can vary along with costs.

We can speak for our products and have excellent knowledge of its performance and how to install it. As for any other company's a buyer would need to contact them.


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thedoc46

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I've just completed grinding down my 3 car garage. As a DIY person, who's never tackled this ever before, here's my findings.

I went to Home-Depot expecting to rent a Edco,

As i was on a mission to keep the dust down, i thought the Edco was the answer to my problems, as it had the vac attachment, and was listed as a 'proper' concrete grinder, however, the Edco, didn't accept the dimabrush disc, so i went ahead and rented the Clark floor polisher with vac attachment, and concrete removal disc the one with less flaps, than the concrete prep tool, which has more diamabrush flaps, but apparently less aggressive. I also rented a vac cos it was only $19 for the day.

TBH, I wouldn't have bothered with the vac attachment if i was to do it again. Dust does get sucked up, but i ended up preferring to do small amounts, without the vac attached, then manually brushing up the dust and threw it in the vac. The problem with the vac attached is it gets clogged pretty fast.

I'm lucky and have a 30gal compressor, and was able to blow out the filter every 30mins... Your neighbors will hate you. A thick cloud of dust gets blown out of that filter. I was lucky with the wind today. As in it was blowing it away and down the road, rather than back into my face and garage !

The most important tool to not forget is a proper respirator and eye protection. A compressor with an extra powerful air blaster is very useful, and i would also rent a vac, as you'll kill your own one. I found doing small clockwise circles the most effective, probably a good six to ten before moving onto the left. I started somewhat disorganized but this method proved the most logical and effective.

Here was my garage before i started.

IMG_5648.jpg


Here I was at work.

IMG_5666.jpg


Here's the job completed.

IMG_5655.jpg


I vac'd the entire garage, then spent a good hr, air blasting the dust off the walls floors, garage doors, and letting the wind **** it out to the open. It still needs a wash down, but i'll do that tomorrow, to not upset the moisture test, that i'm currently doing.

Also dont forget earplugs.. V.important.. It's noisy and you're going to spend a good few hrs to do a proper job.

Cost of rental was $200, + a day's hard graft !! but the results will hopefully be worth it !

Hope that helps other DIY'ers out.
 
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Shea

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No need to wash down with all that vacuuming and blowing out of the dust. Plus, if you wash it down you'll be waiting another 24 to 48 hours or more for all the moisture to work its way out of the concrete before you apply anything.
 

thedoc46

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No need to wash down with all that vacuuming and blowing out of the dust. Plus, if you wash it down you'll be waiting another 24 to 48 hours or more for all the moisture to work its way out of the concrete before you apply anything.

This is a question that's been playing on my mind... I'd love to be able to apply the coating today. Thing is, there's still a film of light powder when i run my finger across the floor.. Though nothing is visible to the eye. Even though i've literally blown the heck out of the floor.

Brushed/swept, vacuumed, used endless amounts of compressed air, almost to the point that you'd eat off it. But if i run my finger across the floor, its sure enough got some white powder present on the tip.

The instructions for my Restore Metallic Floor Coating system says, (which is Polycuramine, rather than regular 2part epoxy) does specifically mention that you should rub fingers against it and if dust is present, rinse and repeat....Then goes on to say, if floor is not thoroughly cleaned and rinsed, coating may not adhere.

The amount of labor i've put in, i'm not sure i want to take the risk. Would love to hear what the pro's do in pro installs? Do they say to the customer, ok leave your garage contents outside and we'll be back tomorrow, once the floor has dried, or is the white powder acceptable, and the instructions are just being pedantic.

I was thinking, perhaps just a damp cloth, and a light wipe over???? I dunno, would love to hear other opinions on the matter.
 
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Armorpoxy

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In our experience there is always some nominal residual dust, not matter what you do to get rid of it. That minor dust gets encapsulated in the epoxy and generally shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the experience you had with the vac is normal as most shop vacs are not designed for concrete grinding so always best to rent one that is for that purpose and has the correct filters that can be cleaned easily, often with some kind of lever or 'beater' that is built in. More sophisticated vacs are actually self cleaning, but are usually not available to rent.
 

thedoc46

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In our experience there is always some nominal residual dust, not matter what you do to get rid of it. That minor dust gets encapsulated in the epoxy and generally shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the experience you had with the vac is normal as most shop vacs are not designed for concrete grinding so always best to rent one that is for that purpose and has the correct filters that can be cleaned easily, often with some kind of lever or 'beater' that is built in. More sophisticated vacs are actually self cleaning, but are usually not available to rent.

Thanks, i ended up buying a large sweeper duster from home depot for $25, and no matter how many times i swept and blasted the duster with compressed air, so that all the dust was blown away, it seemed like a never ending story. In the end, i said to myself, this has got to be enough. There was a nominal amount of residual dust that i just couldn't get rid of.

Anyway went in for the kill, and this is how my floor turned out.

IMG_5671.jpg


I'm pretty happy with the results.
 
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thedoc46

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Nicely done!


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Thanks, I'm happy with the results.

One other thing, it wasn't $200 to rent the equipment, but $150... $200 they charged was a deposit, and once i'd returned the equipment, they refunded $50. Anyway $50 is $50 so worth mentioning !
 

Dragfluid

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Looks good!

I'm wondering about doing this to my place. Just going over the surface to clean it up a bit, not applying any coating. The slab is 43 years old. Does that make any difference for anything? Wondering what the pros think?
 

Bsheffer

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Scotty, I see the two photos where you are removing the material. Obviously, you are using two different grinding units. Your caption discusses the "diamabrush system". Can you identify each of the two grinding units and the corresponding grinding discs used. In my situation, I am supposedly going to have access to two brand new high($5000 each)pieces of equipment. The way my buddy who is getting me the equipment explained, the units have something like three discs mounted that spin and these three discs are mounted to a disc that spins. Sort of what I guess I might call a two-stage grinding unit. I know this type of unit has a "sexier" name but I cannot remember what it is and I need to figure out what discs they have for it and what I want to use to ultimately apply an epoxy.

This is the machine I have access to

http://www.cimex-usa.com/df.html

Possibly I need to start another thread on this topic
 
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LegacyIndustrial

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You will likely be using cup wheels (similar to angle grinder type) . With a specific profile and grit. We use coarse, 40 grit wheels, hard bond for soft concrete. Florida concrete is soft!
a78b7e7ef344a25ac3762ed46d895612.jpg

The machine looks great. Your friend should be able to help select the correct tooling for coatings prep.

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Armorpoxy

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The grinder your buddy is lending to you is what we in the industry refer to as a 'Planetary' grinder. They usually have 3-4 plates with diamond pads on them rotating in one direction and the whole array then rotates on the opposite direction. These grinders work well especially when doing concrete floor polishing as the counter-rotating action tends to eliminate grinding and swirl marks which if doing a clear or a polish job need to be removed.

Planetary grinders are more expensive to buy and require more maintenance due to the larger amounts of living parts, and are more difficult to find to rent except in larger urban areas. Some planetary's may use cup wheels, but most we are familiar with each plate has 3-4 pieces of diamond pads (tooling) on them. The cup wheels and tooling are available in different grits and metal bond hardness. Grits in the #20-#40 should work well for prep grinding.

If you have access to one of these, go for it!
 

thedoc46

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That looks great! Did you apply the Diamond top coat?

Not sure what Diamond Top Coat is? I used Rustoleum's Metallic Silver Bullet, directly onto the mechanically ground concrete. No primer, simply because their excellent tech support said not too.

They do have a clear top coat that I can apply $150 per 250sq ft, but it seems on the face of it, exactly the same product as what was just put down... As in Polycuramine, but without the metallic pigment to mix in.

They say as long as you do this within 7 days, you can just lay it down on top (after a quick clean with acetone) But with the surface so smooth and now slick, wondering if it will adhere as good as the original layer, which actually has something proper to adhere too.
 
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