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Grinding wheels, flap discs, cutting discs

Smith & ARROW

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Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
14
Well if you lead with your jaw ocassionally you get hit!
I'm not exactly happy with it either! Looking into it guys, will keep you posted.
 
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Smith & ARROW

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Joined
Jun 23, 2008
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14
Thanks for letting us know guys. I asked my Staff to send out a second set of samples by express courier a couple of days ago. Still working through the original shipping issue - probably my fault - I thought I would just organise it my self, lesson learnt. Looking forward to hear your ideas on our Cut-off wheels!
 

PAToyota

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
4,366
Location
South Central Pennsylvania, USA
Don't feel too bad about the shipping mistake. Last item someone sent to me USPS ended up in GA instead of PA. USPS couldn't explain it - or find it... Their "tracking" is an absolute joke and I personally will never ship anything over a padded envelope with them.
 

jimvannoy

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Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
1,263
Location
Mississippi
Got my wheels a couple days ago. Aside from the shipping time they seem to me to be very high quality. I had to cut some rebar to build a stand for something and they sliced right through it. Cutting sheet metal panels was no problem at all. The discs seemed to last longer and cut faster than other brands I have used. I even got one in a bind and thought for sure it would break. It did not. $18.25 per box of 25 is a good price on the 4 1/2 wheels and the price per disc drops with the more you order but I could not find shipping charges so not sure how much it would work out to per box total. Like I said I do have a bit of a problem with shipping problems/time. If I know I am going to need some x numbers of days from now I want to know when I order them that they are going to arrive so I don't end up putting off work or have to make a trip to get some locally. I guess if you order far enough in advance it would not be a problem but don't expect quick arrival. Not real sure I like the return policy stated on the invoice:

"We do not accept returns under any circumstances. If there is a genuine problem we will resend extra."

That covers damaged or missing items but I guess if you accidentally order the wrong size, type, or grit you are SOL. Also did not see it stated on the web site anywhere I looked.

Overall I like them and would rate them up there with the best. They seemed to cut fast, last a long time, and not build up as much heat as other brands. If shipping is cheap I'll probably end up ordering more.
 

jimvannoy

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Oct 30, 2006
Messages
1,263
Location
Mississippi
Found the shipping charges. If you select an item then proceed to check out there is a shipping calculator. It was $2.58 per box of 25 shipped to my zip. That is real cheap but as mentioned shipping is pretty slow. I'll probably end up ordering more when I go through my free samples. Overall I am pleased and would recommend them to others.
 

nissan_crawler

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Jan 12, 2008
Messages
9,638
Location
Wichita, KS
I'll be grabbing some aluminum/stainless/titanium from work today so I can try them out on that stuff tomorrow.

Cutting wheels HATE titanium. It should be a great test.
 

jimvannoy

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Oct 30, 2006
Messages
1,263
Location
Mississippi
I'll be grabbing some aluminum/stainless/titanium from work today so I can try them out on that stuff tomorrow.

Cutting wheels HATE titanium. It should be a great test.


I cut some aluminum today with mine and they worked ok. I would not try and cut a lot of it though. Just bought a cordless 4 1/2 angle grinder so I can use it with cutoff wheels at the local Pick-A-Part. I need part of a quarter panel so I am going to give it a try in the next day or two.
 

chad s

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Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Baltimore, MD
I forgot to take them to the shop today. Will remember tomorrow, and will definitely put them to use and report back.
 

nissan_crawler

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Jan 12, 2008
Messages
9,638
Location
Wichita, KS
Well, the proof is in the pudding...

I drew a line at a set point in each material, and ran both wheels to the same point and timed it with a timer.

The 4.5" wheels were done on a 8.5 amp Milwaukee grinder.

The 3" wheels were done on an HF pneumatic cutoff tool. I dumped the tank pressure until it kicked in and pumped the tank back up to full pressure before each test.

You'll note on the thinner stuff, I only used the 3" wheels. The 4.5" wheels would have gone through so fast it wouldn't be a fair test, plus you probably would be using a 3" wheel on that material, anyway.

You'll also note on the 1" aluminum I only used 4.5" wheels. I would rather watch paint dry than try it with 3" wheels.

1/4" steel

4.5" Dewalt wheel = 8 seconds
4.5" S&A wheel = 6 seconds

3" Brilliant wheel = 28 seconds
3" S&A wheel = 23 seconds

1" aluminum

4.5" Dewalt wheel = 22 seconds
4.5" S&A wheel = 14 seconds

.032" stainless

3" Brilliant wheel = 14 seconds
3" S&A wheel = 10 seconds

.032 titanium
3" Brilliant wheel = 19 seconds
3" S&A wheel = 11 seconds

4.5" Dewalt starting diameter = 4.5"
4.5" Dewalt ending diameter = 4 5/16"

4.5" S&A starting diameter = 4.5"
4.5" S&A ending diameter = 4 5/16"

3" Brilliant starting diameter = 3 1/16"
3" Brilliant ending diameter = 2 7/16"

3" S&A starting diameter = 2 15/16"
3" S&A ending diameter = 2 7/8"

The S&A wheels seem to hold their own quite well.

Price:
4.5" Dewalt = $1.40/each (best I could find on the net) = $35 (for 25, found locally, no shipping)

4.5" S&A = $18.25 (per 25) + $2.58 shipping = $20.83

I might have to try the 14" wheels when I wear out the couple I have now. The prices are on par with the 14" Dewalt red wheels.

As a side note, I noticed the S&A wheels wanted to bind much less than the Brilliant or Dewalt wheels.
 

chad s

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Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Baltimore, MD
I dont have my full report ready yet, however, these are the fastest cutting, smoothest cutting, and cleanest cutting cut off wheels I have used. I am very impressed with them. Where else can you find 1/32" 3" cut off wheels for your pneumatic cut off tool? This is something I have been looking for for a long time, and the S&W fit the bill well.
 
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nissan_crawler

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Jan 12, 2008
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Wichita, KS
I dont have my full report ready yet, however, these are the fastest cutting, smoothest cutting, and cleanest cutting cut off wheels I have used. I am very impressed with them. Where else can you find 1/32" 3" cut off wheels for your pneumatic cut off tool? This is something I have been looking for for a long time, and the S&W fit the bill well.

Did you notice much less binding, too?

I have to admit, when I first saw S&A's proposition, I though they either had to be full of themselves, or had one hell of a product.

I'm glad to see it was the latter. :beer:

I get so sick of hearing companies spew verbal diarrhea about their products, without backing it up. I was impressed to see a company that showed up, slapped the product down on the table to be tried, without giving a bunch of ******** hype. That's putting your *** on the line.
 

jimvannoy

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Oct 30, 2006
Messages
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Location
Mississippi
Did you notice much less binding, too?

I have to admit, when I first saw S&A's proposition, I though they either had to be full of themselves, or had one hell of a product.

I'm glad to see it was the latter. :beer:

I get so sick of hearing companies spew verbal diarrhea about their products, without backing it up. I was impressed to see a company that showed up, slapped the product down on the table to be tried, without giving a bunch of ******** hype. That's putting your *** on the line.



Yes and I say they passed the test with flying colors!
 

the intimidator

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Aug 15, 2005
Messages
980
Location
ontario canada
To Smith and ARROW,

I am impressed with what you have done and how firmly you believe in you're product's and the members seem to prove what you have told us in their reviews. I have a question for you, Will you/company ship you're products to Canada? If so I will most likely buy some of the 4.5" cutting wheel's and grinding wheels as well. Another question Do you offer a 5" masonary wheel? You're prices are really good compared to what I pay here too Thanks alot :)
 

Smith & ARROW

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
14
Hi Guys,

Hopefully we will hear more from Chad S soon - I am very interested to hear his further ideas on our Cutting Wheels!

With regard to the testing and comments so far - firstly I would like to thanks the 3 recipients who have given Smith & ARROW and the Journal some of their valuable time.

Some have commented here that they admire the forthright approach that Smith & ARROW have shown by offering their products up to open testing in a non controlled environment. Those who have taken on the challenge to do the testing and report back have also shown the fortitude to stick their necks out to provide us all with their open and honest opinion.

When assessing the outcomes of what we have done here, it must be noted that this is NOT a "formal" testing environment. Formal accredited testing would require the strictest controls - a completely independent, unbiased, scientific process whereby all variables would be kept at a constant, except the products being tested – the same machines, exactly the same weight / pressure on the machines, exactly the same materials, etc. etc.

In fact, what we have proposed and what has been undertaken is the random choice of 3 members of the Forum, all who had previously openly posted their preferred brand of abrasives, and none of whom have any relationship to Smith & ARROW. They may be absolute professionals with years of training and experience in cutting metal, or simply hobbyists with a keen interest.

Notwithstanding all this guff, I must admit I am very happy with the results.

Jim Vannoy seemed pretty impressed with the speed with which the wheels cut and that they seemed to last well. He had some issues with the freighting time – understandable. It probably had more to do with me doing it all myself than anything else – instead of leaving it up to my Staff that manage dispatches every day. We do a reasonable amount of business of Ebay http://stores.ebay.com/smith-and-arrow and a lot of the positive feedback in the USA also mentions fast delivery. But this is something that we will continue to look into. As the business owner, it is unacceptable to me for a customer to have to wait more than a maximum of 4 working days for delivery after an order has been placed.

Regarding cutting aluminum – some of our biggest corporate clients are aluminum fabricators who buy the thin INOX Cutting Wheels and the Zirconia Flap Discs. However, they ALL use wax on the wheels for the best result.

The time and effort that Nissan Crawler put into the testing and report deserves a special thankyou – very impressive! From all that detail, it appears that the Smith & ARROW wheels cut much faster in those tests (20 – 40%) and with the same level of wear, as the products they were tested against. The benefits of a fast cut are many; including saving time, and less burning / marking and therefore cleanup work required.

The price difference is also worth noting with the other tested product being more than 65% more expensive ($0.84 Verses $1.40).

Regarding the question on shipping to Canada, we DO ship to Canada and although it costs more in freight, our customers are still very happy with the overall cost per disc for the quality they get.

Once again a big thankyou to you guys for helping out with the testing – if any of you guys feel like sending some of the sample Cutting Discs off to other members for their feedback to the forum I would really appreciate it. Its been an interesting exercise and I look forward to any other ideas or suggestions you may have!

Cheers

Ben Ferguson
Managing Director
Smith & ARROW (US) LLC
www.smithandarrow.com
 

Smith & ARROW

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
14
P.S. Perhaps we should send out some samples of the Zirconia Flap Discs to any keen Stainless Steel or Aluminium Fabricators out there? Regarding Masonary Wheels - Keep an eye on our web site!
 

chad s

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Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Baltimore, MD
I will have my full comparison to about 5 other brands up by this weekend. But regardless, the S&W come out on top, they beat out hilti, norton, dewalt, sait, and yes, even my past favorite, pferd. These cut off wheels are really the best I have found, and while price is not the first factor I look for, they are the best priced out out of the above tested brands as well, and that certainly does not hurt!
 

polo2k

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Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
94
Location
UK (south)
HOly Tread revival BATMAN!

how are these discs holding up in prolonged use? any uk suppliers yet?
 

Vinko

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Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
5,829
Location
Los Angeles
What's the country of origin on the Smith & Arrow discs? Didn't see it mentioned in this thread. Anyone know? I might try some of these out regardless.
 

Vinko

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Jul 7, 2008
Messages
5,829
Location
Los Angeles
Anyone with more on the Smith & Arrow discs? COO? Anyone compare them to the 3M or the German brands.
 
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