Grizzly lathe?

[PNWguy]

I'm not the best machinist, but I've been using mills & lathes for 20 years, and can usually make parts that match my drawing and hit the specs within .001. Usually. I use my shop for fun, and for keeping things running on the property; I don't make money with my machine tools.

I'm considering a Grizzly 4003G lathe.
I know, it's Chinese. It's not a Monarch, South Bend or any other awesome old American iron. I can't find one of those, and I've been searching for so long, I've given up.

My Clausing/Atlas is so worn out that it's painful to try and make decent parts. For example, the tailstock quill is so sloppy that I broke a center bit today (no, it's not adjustable for the slop).

For $4k, I can get a Grizzly 4003G, or a different brand of similar machines.

I've searched GJ, and haven't found much more than arguments about how much Chinese tools ****.

I'm hoping to find a few people who have a Grizzly 4003G, or something similar, and get some opinions. How long have you had it? Are you happy with it? Did Grizzly do you right if it broke? How much experience do you have with machining? How much do you use it?

Thanks in advance!

Please:
This is not the thread to yell about how China *****, or that all tools from China ****, or "just buy an old American lathe on Craigslist". Save that for somewhere else.

But if you love old American iron, I have a Clausing/Atlas I'll sell you for for $2,500.

 

[jonesg]

I'm not the best machinist, but I've been using mills & lathes for 20 years, and can usually make parts that match my drawing and hit the specs within .001. Usually. I use my shop for fun, and for keeping things running on the property; I don't make money with my machine tools.

I'm considering a Grizzly 4003G lathe.
I know, it's Chinese. It's not a Monarch, South Bend or any other awesome old American iron. I can't find one of those, and I've been searching for so long, I've given up.

My Clausing/Atlas is so worn out that it's painful to try and make decent parts. For example, the tailstock quill is so sloppy that I broke a center bit today (no, it's not adjustable for the slop).

For $4k, I can get a Grizzly 4003G, or a different brand of similar machines.

I've searched GJ, and haven't found much more than arguments about how much Chinese tools ****.

I'm hoping to find a few people who have a Grizzly 4003G, or something similar, and get some opinions. How long have you had it? Are you happy with it? Did Grizzly do you right if it broke? How much experience do you have with machining? How much do you use it?

Thanks in advance!

Please:
This is not the thread to yell about how China *****, or that all tools from China ****, or "just buy an old American lathe on Craigslist". Save that for somewhere else.

But if you love old American iron, I have a Clausing/Atlas I'll sell you for for $2,500.

Just buy an old American lathe on craigslist.
With 4k I'd look for a myford.

 

[PNWguy]

Just buy an old American lathe on craigslist.
With 4k I'd look for a myford.

Some days I hate this site.

"I can't find one of those, and I've been searching for so long, I've given up."

 

[WhoWhatNow]

With that size budget you may want to look at a Precision Matthews. They have a pretty good reputation in the Home Shop Machinist board. I am planning on getting a 12” one to replace my little 8” South Bend.

 

[matt_i]

It does have a lot of "stuff" that comes with it, live center, dead center, chucks, steady, faceplates.

The build of the cross-slide on a lathe and the carriage ergonomics are pretty important, as that's where the work gets done. If at all possible, I'd attempt to go find one and play around with it a little bit and see if it feels natural to you or there's a lot of stuff crammed into a small space. Only you can answer that for sure.

Imo its going to be an upgrade from an Atlas though, with flat + v ways, the camlock spindle, and the presumably new & unworn cross-screw & nut. Keep everything oiled and it will last a long time in a hobby shop. Nice that it doesn't need a phase converter to get going.

I have some problems with a larger, similar lathe in the shop where I work because the wipers on the tailstock are chintzy and allow chips to pass under from time to time. But then they get smashed into the flat way and the alignment gets off, it takes removing the tailstock and cleaning it all up and the alignment is restored again. That is one thing I've not ever had to do on a Monarch, but its a small thing.

 

[ineedtools]

Expand your search and expect a lot of longer drive and possibly an over-night stay to find one. With the budget you have they're out there.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

 

[ItsNemo]

Expand your search and expect a lot of longer drive and possibly an over-night stay to find one. With the budget you have they're out there.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

Ugh...I agree with the OP. Finding something remotely decent on craigslist from someone who isn't sketchy or a flake or wants brand new prices for something that is used up which you have to drive an entire day just to go look at maybe if it isn't gone or misrepresented is just not worth it.

 

[VocaTexas]

Head over to the Hobby Machinist forum. I know there are guys up in your part of the country. Maybe one of them can help hook you up on a machine. If nothing else, you can get some good advice on whatever machine you decide to buy.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/

 

[PNWguy]

Expand your search and expect a lot of longer drive and possibly an over-night stay to find one. With the budget you have they're out there.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

The folks from New England have no idea about the size of the western states. There are counties in California larger than some of the New England states. If I go north, I can get to a town of over 100,000 people in two hours. If I go south, it's 5 hours.

Please don't tell me I'm not searching hard enough. You have no idea of what I have done, and where I've searched. The PNW was never a manufacturing area - we cut trees. I can buy used chainsaws, tractors, saw mills, splitters, etc all day long - but there's very few machine tools. A mill on CL won't last overnight, so if I see one in Portland, 250 miles away, I can start driving, and it'll probably be gone when I arrive.

"they're out there" in some parts of the country, but not so much here.

Sorry if I sound grouchy, but I was really clear about wanting this to be a thread for an actual discussion, rather than "you're doing it wrong; China SUX!!!" OK?

 

[PNWguy]

With that size budget you may want to look at a Precision Matthews. They have a pretty good reputation in the Home Shop Machinist board. I am planning on getting a 12” one to replace my little 8” South Bend.

Thanks - I'll take a look.

 

[PNWguy]

Head over to the Hobby Machinist forum. I know there are guys up in your part of the country. Maybe one of them can help hook you up on a machine. If nothing else, you can get some good advice on whatever machine you decide to buy.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/

Thanks. I've been looking over there as well. I'll keep digging.

 

[Jawn]

FWIW, I don't have a lot of machining experience, but I have had a smaller Grizzly lathe (G0602, 10"x22") for a few years. With a Chinese made Grizzly, expect minor stuff like paint flaking off, things needing cleaned up and relubed, etc. Only issues I've had stemmed from my own amateur antics (got a threaded MT3 taper stuck in the tailstock when the tailstock ram screw tried to crossthread its way into it instead of pushing the taper out). If I was doing it over, I'd buy bigger and more capable (12"+, which you're already looking at). But overall I am happy with it.

That said, if budget allowed I might consider something like a Precision Matthews or Eisen 12" or 13" lathe... one of the taiwanese made ones. From what I've read there's a bit better fit, finish, and quality of parts in those.

Speaking of suggestiong forums...
http://chaski.org/homemachinist/ - tends to be "live steam" oriented but lots of good info there too.

 

[DocsMachine]

I keep running across the same thing, myself. I asked about getting a Grizzly 9x19 years ago. No one on either of the two big machinist boards would even give me the time of day.

I eventually said to heck with it, bought one, and put it to work. had it about three years, it likely made me over $20K in parts.

It was the typical 9x19, it wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. Only problem I had with it is the motor pulley walked on the key a bit and caused the teeny V-belt to twist and eventually shred. It was within Grizzly's warranty period, they sent me a new belt at no charge.

I eventually "upgraded" to a Logan and then a Sheldon, but really, those were less "shooting for a better lathe" and more "that's what happened to be available and in my price range at the time."

Generally speaking the Grizzly lathes are good units. Like any Chinese-made machine, sometimes you'll get one that needs a little tweaking, sometimes you'll get one that's perfect out of the box, and occasionally you'll get one with a major problem. Grizzly's customer service and warranty are pretty good- likely the best of all the importers- and they will usually take care of any problems.

(Like anyone there's cases where CS screwed the pooch, but that happens on occasion with virtually any company.)

The fact of the matter is, good American iron is getting harder and harder to find. Southbends haven't been made in 25 years, and Logans in 50. When I was starting out, all I could afford is the clapped out junk, and I got good at rebuilding them into something at least usable, if not great.

But not everyone wants to buy a junker and have to rebuild the engine just so they can drive to work on Monday morning. If I needed a lathe today, I would have zero qualms about picking up one of Grizzly's "gunsmith" lathes.

Knowing the local machine tool market, I'd likely be waiting for anywhere from one to three years before a used one appeared, and if the Craigslist stuff is any indication, whatever did appear would need an immediate full rebuild and likely nontrivial repairs.

On the other hand, I could have the Griz here, sited and cutting chips in a week. When I could do this stuff as a semi-hobby, waiting wasn't a big deal. Today, doing this for pay and having customers that expect X work by Y day, you're damn right I'd be on the phone to Grizzly the next morning, if I needed a new machine.

Even today, I get the same thing- I'm looking to buy a small CNC mill. I don't have the time to do a conversion (I'm already working on too damn many machines) there's basically zero used market up here, so due to costs and size restrictions, I'm looking at one of the Tormach mills.

A bunch of the usual suspects always pipe up and tell me those are junk, what I need is a HAAS or an Okuma or whatever their favorite flavor is.

Okay, besides the fact that used machines like that do not exist up here- I'm not saying "there aren't any in my price range", I'm saying there aren't any, period, at any price, up here"- even a used HAAS is three to five times the cost of the Tormach, eight times the size, and draws ten times the power.

It's the same thing- if it's not a professional, production-rated machine tool that can remove metal in amounts listed as tons per hour, then it's a worthless toy. "Buy a REAL machine!"

F**K you. I can't afford a "real" machine, I can't afford to even have one shipped up here, I have no room for it, I don't have the power requirements for it, and why do I need a 20HP CAT-40 spindle in a machine with a 40-inch table to make parts less than 2" on a side out of aluminum?

Yeah, in an ideal world, I'd love to have a row of HAAS machines all churning away and making me a million dollars a year. Ain't gonna happen right now- if ever- so the Tormach is one of the best pull-it-out-of-the-box-and-go-cut-chips machines I can buy right now.

Screw the haters. Get the Griz, go make some chips. I love me some good American tools, to be sure, but a new import now sure as f**k beats a clapped out American three years down the road.

[/rant]



Doc.

 

[stioc]

I was in a similar boat a yr ago, I didn't want an old, worn out, 'project lathe'. So I bought the Grizzly 4000 which is a smaller lathe and I've been quite happy with it. The 4003 is very popular with the gunsmithing guys. If I had the room and $ for it I'd get one in a heartbeat. I hear great things about the Precision Matthews versions of mills and lathes all the time, if you have the extra coin.

Also, you'll probably get better responses in the Fabrication section than the general tools section

 

[rsanter]

I have one of the smaller grizzly lathes that I bought used. It has been a decent machine. It has had some issues that I have corrected or improved based on ideas I have seen on the net.
I replaced the chuck and backing plate which greatly improved the workpiece being on Center. I made a part that used bearings for the cross slide, that was great. And I made a tailstock locking lever system which worked great.

Decent machine for the money I paid. I likly would be pissed if I paid new price for it.
I have heard that grizzly is fairly good on product support and I know their woodworking tools are actually fairly well though of in many circles

 

[Provincial]

I'm not the best machinist, but I've been using mills & lathes for 20 years, and can usually make parts that match my drawing and hit the specs within .001.

My Clausing/Atlas is so worn out that it's painful to try and make decent parts. For example, the tailstock quill is so sloppy that I broke a center bit today (no, it's not adjustable for the slop).

But if you love old American iron, I have a Clausing/Atlas I'll sell you for for $2,500.

If you can get $2,500 for a "worn out" Atlas, a new Asian lathe is a bargain!

The secret with Asian products is having a US distribution company that will stand behind the product. Other than that, inspect the machine thoroughly and put good lube/oil in/on it. They are lightly built in relative terms, but so is your Atlas.

 

[GTO]

With the description pf your current lathe,it will probably next to impossible to sell it here....just saying.
Good luck

 

[dnschmidt]

Why not drive to Grizzly in Bellingham Washington and have a good look at what they've got. Their showrooms are typically quite well stocked and you get to at least see what you intend to buy ahead of time. SEEMS REASONABLE TO ME!

 

[225]

I've heard good things about the Grizzly lathes.

Sorry to hear you can't find anything over there. Most lathes are in Ohio for some reason. I wish I lived in the PNW for the vans. They're everywhere!

 

[MK1888]

This is a decent review of the 4003G:

 

[jmarkwolf]

I have the Grizzly G4003G purchased new (pic below). I'm just a home shop machinist with only a few years lathe experience, but I'm happy with it.

I considered the Precision Matthews offerings, but decided Grizzly is less likely to go belly up.

The Hobby Machinist forum has a Grizzly thread. Do a search for "G4003G" there for info.

 

[pepi]

Looked at the grissly machines, passed....

I purchased a mill & lathe from Precision Matthews. The machines are built for Matt, with his thumb on the specs and quality control.

http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236-t/

many choices for the size you're look for
http://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/lathes/12-14-swing/

 

[duhicky]

OP,
I live in Montana. I can drive 7 hours west across I90 and still be in Montana or 3 hours east. I know exactly what you mean. I have an old Sheldon 10” that has bronze bearings and is in need of a total refurbish. Got sick and tired just like you and went Chinese.

I only needed a 10” so I went with Precision Mathews PM1030. It comes with a decent quick change tool post and it had reverse which not all the lathes that size had in this price range. I’ve had it just over 6 months. It’s worth the 2grand I paid to have a machine hitting a tolerance of .001. Yes I know that’s not amazing but I’m a hobby machinist. I had a question on the digital readout and was responded to within a few hours. It is a a budget machine and the digital readout is not real consistent but gives a starting ball park and then I just adjust as I see needed. I was always taught when welding to never fall in love with numbers as every machine runs different so I take that approach with this as well. It is exactly what I paid for. The two major cons I have is the carriage two bolts and flex’s a lot. There is a ton of posts/videos how to upgrade it to make it 4 bolt and more rigid. Very similar to grizzly. Also the actual base/pedestal has 3 bolts all in line. This doesn’t help when trying to keep the machine rigid. Allows more torsional flex.

Background/experience:
I’m a hobbyist machinists and a boilermaker by trade for the last ten years. I have an associate degree in metals fabrication so I was taught basic machining skills. Hope this helps as I just went through what you are going through.

 

[LMS]

Some days I hate this site.

Haha - that was awesome.


In the same boat as you with the *years* of searching locally. I'll end up getting a Precision Matthews. Now just deciding how to justify the cost of one of the Taiwanese models. The guys on Hobby Machinist that have them and the Chinese ones really like them. No one has regretted it.

 

[Jawn]

Looked at the grissly machines, passed....

I purchased a mill & lathe from Precision Matthews. The machines are built for Matt, with his thumb on the specs and quality control.

http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236-t/

many choices for the size you're look for
http://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/lathes/12-14-swing/

I'm curious, what mill did you get? I have a HF mill/drill and may consider an upgrade from that at some point.

 

[Aaron_W]

Adding to the PM chorus.

There seem to be a lot of people happy with PMs products. There was a recent thread looking for a used PM lathe on Hobby Machinist and several comments were made about how rare that seemed to be. They don't seem to get sold, and when they do they go fast.

The PM1127 is often mentioned as being a very good deal, a lot of nice features included at a very reasonable price. It is a little smaller than the Grizzly in your first post. The PM1236 would be the most direct comparison.


The Grizzly machines seem to be good, but I don't see people being as enthusiastic about them. PM has a small but very vocal group of supporters.

PM also tends to have a bit of a waiting list. Inconvenient perhaps, but a sign people think they are good enough to wait for.



I've figured out you can't use the word lathe or mill without generating posts telling you how easy it is to find a Southbend or Bridgeport for $500. If you are not finding them you just need to look harder.

It is not just here, it is everywhere on the internet. I've even seen people talk posters out of buying a Southbend for $1000 because they can do much better... The best was seeing a guy in Romania asking about a small lathe, and people were telling him to look for a Southbend. Yeah, I'm sure there is a ton of old US iron in Eastern Europe.

 

[Jason280]

I've been scouring CL for a lathe now for a couple months, and still haven't found a decent deal on one. I've found an Enco 9x19", but they are asking $900...seems a little high for what you are getting. I'm willing to spend up to around $2-2500, which does limit my options somewhat, but I really don't want to buy new.

 

[Wolfman6]

I have used a lot of Grizzly machines, albeit, most but not all where woodworking machines. They have always preformed well. Their customer service is great and always seem to take care of problems. I tell people, Can you get better equipment than Grizzly?, sure, but you will pay a lot more money for it. Unfortunitly, many people equate Grizzly to Harbor Freight. Not the case at all. HF is pure junk, Grizzly is machines made overseas to their specs and the owner of Grizzly has made a point of make sure their customers are satisfied with their purchase. As a hobbyist or light duty user, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase Grizzly machines.

 

[larry_g]

Have you been in http://www.oregontoolandsupply.com/ in Roseburg? Last I was in there they had a larger Jet lathe on the floor. I don't remember the model.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[My Old Tools]

Just buy an old American lathe on craigslist.
With 4k I'd look for a myford.

Myford isn't American and flat ways aren't particularly good. The Grizzly gunsmith lathe has pretty good reviews.

 

[PNWguy]

Have you been in http://www.oregontoolandsupply.com/ in Roseburg? Last I was in there they had a larger Jet lathe on the floor. I don't remember the model.

lg
no neat sig line

I have not even heard of them, but I'll definitely call and see if they have any lathes.

Thanks!

 

[jonesg]

Myford isn't American and flat ways aren't particularly good. The Grizzly gunsmith lathe has pretty good reviews.

Irony is wasted on Americans.

 

[zmotorsports]

I was in a very similar situation several years ago. I did NOT want a clapped out old American machine that would just end up being another project, I wanted something nice quality that I could go right to making chips and parts with. Everyone kept telling me to buy an old American machine but here in Utah we live in a machinery desert and they are few and far between.

I looked at the Grizzly line briefly but ultimately ended up dealing with Matt @ Precision Mathews. Great to deal with and I am more than happy with my lathe and mill purchases. I was able to sell my old Smithy to a friend which allowed just enough of a bump to my budget to allow for a couple of very nice Taiwanese machines.

I know Matt has a PM1236 that is very comparable to the Grizzly but comes with quite a few accessories to get you started, it may be worth looking in to. There are quite a few guys over on hobby-machinist.com that have Precision Mathews machines, they actually have a full blown section for Precision Mathews as well as Grizzly (and many more for that matter).

 

[PNWguy]

Just a quick note of thanks to all of you whop contributed actual knowledge to to this thread.

Extra bonus point for the people who understand that buying used isn't the same experience in different parts of the country.

I'll be looking at the PM & Grizzly

 

[Millwrong]

The Smithy 13-36 lathe may also be worth looking at. They seem to be a very stable business, and come with a 2 year warranty.

https://smithy.com/Bench-Metal-Lathe-MI-1336L


Also comes with a free tool pack (3 & 4 Jaw, followers, centres, taper attachment) and free shipping until the end of the month...

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I'm in the market for a lathe and mill and facing a similar "machinery desert" in Arizona. I'll also tag on with what Mike said, I have no desire to restore an old machine if I could even find one at a fair price. My research has lead me to the Taiwanese Precision Matthews as well.

 

[Maui]

In the Northeast deals like this one are pretty common:

https://rochester.craigslist.org/for/d/lathe-ahc-auto-chucker/6521723924.html

Maui

 

[Parrothead]

Some days I hate this site.

"I can't find one of those, and I've been searching for so long, I've given up."

Yep, me too. But hey at least the “do people read” post was locked.

 

[Aaron_W]

Yep, me too. But hey at least the “do people read” post was locked.

I thought people just ran out of things to say, I didn't notice it was closed. Guess I stopped reading my own thread.

 

[DocsMachine]

In the Northeast deals like this one are pretty common:

-A Hardinge AHC? Yeah, I'd imagine they're both common and dirt cheap. They're basically an antique non-computerized automatic lathe, "programmed" using physical dogs on a spinning drum to trip hydraulic valves, and using hydraulic flow control valves to regulate cutting speeds.

They were innovative in their day- 30 years ago- but even a fully functioning one today has nearly zero demand. No production shop wants one, because a true computer-controlled CNC is faster, more accurate, and considerably quicker to reprogram, and no home-shop guy wants one because it's virtually impossible to do single parts with it.

The only people interested in machines like that are small start-up types making short-run production parts, who are trying to get off the ground on a very tight shoestring budget.

It's quite a bit different than what the OP wants.

Doc.