Grizzly vs. Baileigh Mill

[almostclueless]

Hey, A few weeks ago I checked in and asked for advice about the Baileigh VMD-40g benchtop mill. Got lots of advice--thanks. Still feel good about impending purchase. But . . . I've been looking at the Grizzly G0728 Mill. grizz is about $300 more. However the grizz has a knee and therefore a z-axis. Does anyone know anything about either mill. Both are Taiwan made.
What do I gain with the Z-axis? Also I need to know if a power drawbar will work on these mills? Any help will be appreciated.

 

[rsanter]

Pictures please...
Generally having a z axis adjustment that is not on the column means you can do more precise multi step work without losing center location if you had to adjust the z axis during the tool change.
So switch from spotting drill, to drill bit, to countersink, to chamfer tool, to tap...etc

In general more versatility

Bob

 

[Adam.C]

First, you are paying a lot of money for Chinese ****. For this kind of money, you could purchase a used Bridgeport in pretty decent shape and it would be 10X the machine.

I had a smaller dovetail column mill made by Sieg Industries. They are absolute ****. The workmanship and materials used barely qualified that item as a machine tool. My DT column was no where near straight.

Just so you know, when companies like Grizzly go looking for a mill to sell, there are many many Chinese and Taiwanese firms who make these. They each offer bids. Some of the bids for the contract are lower than their cost of materials. They will say anything to get the work. Then they produce a couple good machines using hand labor, which convinces Grizzly they can make a good product. Then, over time, they reduce the quality of absolutely everything until they are left with something that looks like a machine, but isn't. The Chinese call it "quality fade". Its a thing they do and talk about unabashedly.

Also, their supply chain is crazy. They get parts from people who get parts from people who get parts from people in mud huts. Multiple chains, many links each. So there's no real way to know if you are actually buying a taiwanese machine (assuming they are really any different) with taiwanese parts. Parts and raw materials the same. In truth, they have no idea what metal they are purchasing.

Second, you can expect that the axes will not be mutually orthogonal, or may not remain so throughout their travel. That's the kind of weird **** you will have to deal with.

Of the 2 machines, design wise, the Grizzly is far superior. Once you remove the lock from the Z axis on the dovetail column, the head will droop. So you can't actually move that axis for milling or drilling. And like I said, those DT columns are notoriously not straight. Guarantee they won't be perpendicular to the table in the YZ plane. XZ is usually shimmable.

If you are serious about milling, you should skip these machines. Even an old Rockwell would be a better choice. If you don't mind learning to scrape, have an extra year of your life, and $1500+ to spend on second hand metrology tools (honestly you will probably need these anyway) then choose the Grizzly.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear. You are not allowed to ask about these machines at practicalmachinist.com. If you could, this would be the answer you would receive.

 

[Nekit]

I agree. Buy a used Bridgeport. I've had one for 20 years and love it.

 

[404]

Adam.C is is exactly correct. I have used both real machines and these imitation Chinese ones. They are horrible.

I ended getting a Van Norman 22. Power feed on all three axis, 50 taper spindle, smooth as silk, just beautiful.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

OP is in a wheelchair so a full sized mill will not work for him. He needs something that can be mounted on a low bench.

 

[Adam.C]

OP is in a wheelchair so a full sized mill will not work for him. He needs something that can be mounted on a low bench.

****. Now I remember his earlier post. There is a little Rockwell I mentioned, but finding one and moving one won't work. These mills you mention are not really table top models. I think you should try the SIEG x3/grizzly g019. This has all the problems I discussed earlier, but is less expensive and smaller without being super limited work envelope wise.

Here's what you will need to run this mill:
Step 1, get a good trustyworthy surface plate. 12 X 18 min.
Step 2, get decent (I.e. not chinese) dial test indicators. You'll need 2, a thousands and a tenths model (or their metric equivalents) I actually had some of the cheap Chinese indicators and was okay with them, but they have non std dovetails that don't fit Noga arms etc.
3, surface gage with fixings to mount the DTIs. Also Noga spindle arm and small Noga mag base.
4, spotting paste, feeler Gage's, abrasive stones, files, etc

You'll have to completely disassemble the mill and inspect each component with the tools above. Granite parallels can be helpful straight edges for checking dovetail surfaces. You may not be able to remedy the problems, but knowing where they are and their magnitude is helpful. There will be places where you can make adjustments or add shims. And these machines are typically frought with dirt and filth, so a good clean is in order anyway.

Last, the table screws are typically so vague and inaccurate that a DRO is a practical necessity. You will grow to love it. There are out of the box models, and models you can make yourself (shumatech). Budget in a three or 4 axis system quill being fourth axis).

So if you follow me, my recommendation is a smaller cheaper mill for the accessibility, but the added expense and hassle of inspecting and managing the Chinese dovetails. Of course you can do good work with a bad machine. And the skills you learn inspecting and working with a less than perfect machine will be valuable and worth learning.

 

[rdn2blazer]

First, you are paying a lot of money for Chinese ****. For this kind of money, you could purchase a used Bridgeport in pretty decent shape and it would be 10X the machine.

No point in reading anything else. THIS is fact period.

OP is in a wheelchair so a full sized mill will not work for him. He needs something that can be mounted on a low bench.

Or he needs something to elivate him to regular mill working height. Totally doable.

 

[Adam.C]

Or he needs something to elevate him to regular mill working height. Totally doable.

I think his idea is to use a power drawbar, which will help accessibility. But I think the basic knee mill has too great a height difference between the head, and the knee crank. The US never really made small mills. Have a look for a Rockwell 21-100. That's one of the smallest mills I've seen.

But the Rong Fu 40 mill he was interested in is pretty big