Ground Anchors

[Mytoolsupply]

I'm getting ready to put up a metal hoop building its going to sit on some pony walls with 4x4's set in concrete but I really want something else to hold the thing down. I'm terrified a big storm will roll through and blow the thing away, does anyone have any recommendations for good ground anchors?

TSC had a 48" long ones but they only had two in stock I'm no engineer but I'm thinking if I place them every 4' and get them 3-4' in the ground it would give me some good piece of mind.

Thoughts?

 

[PCustoms]

I bought some for a carport/shed a few years ago.

Could not get them to auger in. Good luck!

 

[southalabama]

How big is the shop?

TSC apparently doesn’t keep many anchors on hand per store. I had to hit several stores in order to get enough for my scuppernong arbors.

Might try a mobile home supply house and get trailer anchors.

 

[BMWBOB]

You could do these - pound 'em in or concrete... or make your own, but these are about $1.25 each (j rebar)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DNMDG5G/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[BMWBOB]

Ooops - more like$3+ each - I'd make my own, and make them a little longer

 

[Mytoolsupply]

It's 52' long so I'd need 26 of them if I did go every 4'

I tossed around the idea of taking a piece of rebar and making it a T with a J on the end similar to that picture and putting them in the ground with concrete I still may I'd like to see what other options are out there.

Pcustoms also made a good point with as dry as is it right now probably would have to use a post hole digger to get them drill into the ground far enough and pray they don't twist off in the process

Would anchors be similar to setting posts they would need to be below the frost line to keep from being pushed out the ground over the years?

 

[PCustoms]

It's 52' long so I'd need 26 of them if I did go every 4'

Woah, hold the phone...

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with a structure that big. How wide is it?

What does the mfg recommend for uplift protection?

The town added a salt shed 2 winters ago. The "walls" are 3 courses of the huge precast blocks, the hoop structure is then built on that.

 

[rayra]

An auger and some nice deep concrete footings and some stirrup brackets set into the concrete for your 4x4 posts ought to do a good job of it.

 

[Mytoolsupply]

It's 30' wide I'm really not sure who made the thing to get recommendations it was a used building but I'm sure they would read (please provide proper anchoring for this building we are not responsible for damage do to unproper anchoring although we cannot tell you how to anchor our building you must consult a engineer based on site conditions)...

I thought about doing the precast blocks to set it on or even shipping containers but with it being 52' long I still would have had to came up with something to support the ends but ended up just making walls out of lumber

I might try the ones from TSC and see how well they go into the ground then just buying these to finish it if it works alright.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Screw-In-Earth-Anchor-40-in-4LVK5

 

[racecougar]

Are we talking about a Quonset hut? The pony walls you're setting it on aren't just stacked 4x4's, right?

 

[Mytoolsupply]

Are we talking about a Quonset hut? The pony walls you're setting it on aren't just stacked 4x4's, right?

No, It has a fabric top on it. The 4x4's are vertical in the ground. Walls look like a typical pole building side walls just much lower and instead of trusses it'll have the hoop building sitting on them.

 

[racecougar]

How far apart are the arches? How far apart are the 4x4's? How deep are the 4x4's set in concrete? How tall are the pony walls? Those are sheeted with steel panels?

 

[Mytoolsupply]

How far apart are the arches? How far apart are the 4x4's? How deep are the 4x4's set in concrete? How tall are the pony walls? Those are sheeted with steel panels?

30' Wide, 4x4's are 4' on center 3' in the ground. I have a brace on the outside of the walls every 8' and yes there's tin on the walls

 

[racecougar]

Three more questions:

How are you anchoring the arches to the 4x4's?
How tall are the pony walls?
Is your intent/question related to additional anchoring to the canvas top or the actual structure?

 

[mike93lx]

If the wood is anchored, why not just attach the building to the wood?

 

[racecougar]

If the wood is anchored, why not just attach the building to the wood?

I thought that is what the OP was going to do.

 

[Mytoolsupply]

Three more questions:

How are you anchoring the arches to the 4x4's?
How tall are the pony walls?
Is your intent/question related to additional anchoring to the canvas top or the actual structure?

The metal arches will be anchored to the walls with lag bolts and the walls are 8' tall

My question is related to anchoring the walls to the ground, I just want some additional insurance to keep it from getting blown away

 

[RivennHewn]

Another option


I hope you’re sheathing your walls for shear.

Google helical anchors, and hire an engineer.

 

[PCustoms]

The metal arches will be anchored to the walls with lag bolts and the walls are 8' tall

My question is related to anchoring the walls to the ground, I just want some additional insurance to keep it from getting blown away

This is a massive structure, the cheesy carport anchor from tractor supply isn't going to do anything.

 

[Mytoolsupply]

I was looking at the Helical Anchors I'll keep doing some research on them to try and figure out how many I'll need.
I get it the easy way out with something like this is to hire a engineer but that's just not practical in this situation, I know if I called an engineering firm they would be so busy they wouldn't even want to mess with something like this.

The building is nowhere near as big as the one in the pictures, I'm assuming there's more blocks below grade?

 

[racecougar]

I was all prepared to offer a suggestion, but the little detail about the 8' pony walls has me pulling back on the reigns. I seriously recommend hiring an engineer; this coming from an engineer.

How are you getting a permit without engineered plans?

 

[mike93lx]

I was all prepared to offer a suggestion, but the little detail about the 8' pony walls has me pulling back on the reigns. I seriously recommend hiring an engineer; this coming from an engineer.

How are you getting a permit without engineered plans?

Yeah, IMO, 8' isn't a pony wall. I was expecting something really short.

Lots of opportunity for this to go wrong

 

[RivennHewn]

I was all prepared to offer a suggestion, but the little detail about the 8' pony walls has me pulling back on the reigns. I seriously recommend hiring an engineer; this coming from an engineer.

How are you getting a permit without engineered plans?

I don’t believe the hoop builds require a permit, as they “Can be” considered temporary. They are also Pre-engineered, less the foundation. The one pictured, and the one we’re doing next week, didn’t require a permit or inspections.

 

[mike93lx]

I don’t believe the hoop builds require a permit, as they “Can be” considered temporary. They are also Pre-engineered, less the foundation. The one pictured, and the one we’re doing next week, didn’t require a permit or inspections.

They're designed to be placed on top of walls like this? I've always seen them on the ground or large concrete blocks.

Not requiring a permit or enginner doesn't mean it isn't smart to use an engineer, though

 

[racecougar]

I'm sure it varies by jurisdiction, but at 1560 sq ft, and atop 8' tall walls, I expect most will require a permit. As the OP is in Ohio, I just pulled this as a quick example: https://cdn.toledo.oh.gov/uploads/documents/Building-Inspection/Building-a-Hoop-House-in-Toledo.pdf

 

[Zeke]

Well, you said so far that the walls are 8' high, made of lumber (didn't specify what) is anchored by 4 x 4's 3' in the ground and set in concrete. What you left out was, how deep is the frost line and how big a hole did you did for the 4 x 4's and concrete?

I know I would have looked into this before jumping in. But with enough concrete on 4' centers, 3' deep and shear paneled, I think that's a good start to just strap the hoops down to the top plate with through bolts and nuts and use A35 clips to the top plate at every post both sides. Plus nail the shear to the top plate every 4" min. At 3" you'd need a 3 x 4 top plate as we have to use in CA as our bottom plate and bolted to the foundation with hold downs and threaded rods at all corners, doors and about 10 O.C. along long walls IN addition to 5/8ths threaded J foundation bolts with 2" square washers every 4' O.C. We also have to use a 3 x 4 vertical studs at every 4th stud on shear panel joints nailed alternately 4" (2" stagger) O.C. all around and 12" O.C. in the field.

So what it boils down to is how this thing is held to the ground. The rest can be built to the point of overbuilt. But that won't fix anything if the posts aren't right.

 

[RivennHewn]

They're designed to be placed on top of walls like this? I've always seen them on the ground or large concrete blocks.

Not requiring a permit or enginner doesn't mean it isn't smart to use an engineer, though

Read my 1st post

 

[Mytoolsupply]

It's an ag building so don't have to deal with submitting drawings or any of that.

With that being said the walls are its going to sit on are made of 4x4's I drill 3' deep holes 12" wide and set all the posts in concrete.
Frost line around here is 32"
There's a 2x6 skirt board along the bottom and 2x4 girts spaced every 2'
I have a 2x6 header on both sides on the 4x4 and its capped with a 2x8 on the top
The hoops on this building are 4' on center so each one will sit over a 4x4 and be lagged down through the 2x8 into the 4x4 granted only two per will go directly into the 4x4's
On the outside of the walls I have a 4x6 set in concrete every 8' with a diagonal brace running a little over half way up the 4x4
Walls are covered on the outside with tin.

I know 8' may be a bit excessive on the walls but I wanted to have as much useable space as possible out of this thing If I would have set it on the ground or even used a 4' if I put a combine inside It would pretty much have to be in the middle which would leave a lot of wasted space on the sides.

I think that answers everyone's questions I'm still thinking I would like to add some anchors down this thing just to be safe. I'm just trying to decide how many and how deep. I have around 6-8" of topsoil then clay

 

[Zeke]

Have you ever seen the thing that is in the ground that a phone pole guy wire is attached to?

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[dfiler2]

If you drilled an 18" hole in the ground then ran rods horizontally through the posts it would do a lot. It may take a few months for the dirt to settle in to get the maximum effect. Even nailing cross boards would really restrict the post from pulling out.

 

[tarmy]

look up soil nails too OP. But, as others have said…that is a whole lot of structure and surface area to deal with various loads on.

we have uplift/ heave from earthquakes that induce all kinds of massive forces. Even structures like yours will have winds loads, uplift and various other forces you are just guessing about.

Good luck.

 

[rsanter]

Do a search for EARTH ANCHOR

 

[Mytoolsupply]

Have you ever seen the thing that is in the ground that a phone pole guy wire is attached to?

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That's actually a really good idea I know them are crazy strong I hit one once with a disc and it didn't phase the anchor the disc was a different story lol