Ground too hard to put T-posts in

[ukiltmybrutha]

I created a similar post earlier on. I am not sure that I got the information that I needed.

I am trying to put metal T-posts in the ground. I can only get them about an inch in the ground and they go no further.

What an appropriate power tool that I can reasonably purchase to get that t-post into the ground.

I'd like to purchase a tool as opposed to renting one. I like new toys if I can afford them.

Is a Rotary hammer drill what I am looking for? If so, what attaches to it and what size?

Thanks!

 

[Feralghoul88]

https://external-content.duckduckgo...7e-6187-4bf8-9c15-d68a75d42339.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Need a post driver if you dont already have one, get a good heavy one or make one with some heavy pipe.

 

[Dustball]

I have no experience with this but it seems decent-

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-Earth-Series-32-7cc-Gas-Powered-T-Post-Driver-802412/301687436

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

https://external-content.duckduckgo...7e-6187-4bf8-9c15-d68a75d42339.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Need a post driver if you dont already have one, get a good heavy one or make one with some heavy pipe.

Will it allow the post to go through GRAVEL with certainty? I didn't want make this post too complicated but I guess I should expand. People are running off our neighborhood's gravel road that is full of potholes into my grass and leaving huge tire grooves that will be hell to mow over during the summer and I have decided to just run T-posts until the community gravel road situation is resolved.

If I catch them, I can tell them to stop.....but I can't be watching the area all the time.

Sorry as well Dustball. I should have explained that the T-posts will need to go through GRAVEL. I like that GP Driver...wow.

I tried to keep this simple because I have been thinking about what to do for months here and did not want to derail the thread with other ideas of what I could put up. I like the t-posts for liability reasons. They are tall enough to be seen.

 

[Feralghoul88]

Will it allow the post to go through GRAVEL with certainty? I didn't want make this post too complicated but I guess I should expand. People are running off our neighborhood's gravel road that is full of potholes into my grass and leaving huge tire grooves that will be hell to mow over during the summer and I have decided to just run T-posts until the community gravel road situation is resolved.

Sorry as well Dustball. I should have explained that the T-posts will need to go through GRAVEL. I like that GP Driver...wow.

How hard you can hit with a hammer depends on two things, how hard you swing it and the size of the hammer. So, Yes, and No....

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

How hard you can hit with a hammer depends on two things, how hard you swing it and the size of the hammer. So, Yes, and No....

Is it possible for the t-post to bend before I do? Perhaps not a good example BUT I tried tiki torch stakes and they sure bent when trying to go deeper than an inch. Sharp 2x2 inch stakes split in half from the force of an engineering hammer and the stake refused to go in further than an inch.

Thanks for the heads up on those variables.

 

[Bogie1632]

When I know I'm driving a bunch in hard ground they meet my dry chop saw and get an angle cut at the bottom. They seem to drive in a bit easier. Also, water may help if you can soak the area a bit. I usually have only needed a hand operated post driver but there are pneumatic or even engine driven models. A pnuematic one is in the $400 range IIRC, but a pro level one is much higher. An adapter for a demo hammer is like $50.

What kind of budget are you aiming for? It can be quite a wide variety of options and costs. You prefer electric driven, gas, pnuematic?

Edit: Just saw you needed it to how through gravel. Cutting a bevel will help with that regardless of what option you use to drive them in.

V/R
Bogie

 

[Don1357]

The valley where I live is peppered with glacial river wash. Meaning sand and big rocks. 50% of the soil I dig up is rocks, the rest sand which do an amazing job at locking the rocks in place...

Diving T-posts... I managed to drive half of them. The ones that were a no-go had to be dug and set in place by tamping down gravel or setting them on cement. By no-go I mean imagine a few inches bellow the surface encountering a football size rock and your T post driving efforts have to be harsh enough to break that rock and keep on going until it hits the next rock...

Best technique was using a post digger, post digging shovels, and a vacuum cleaner to pick up the sand when it got deep. the vacuum cleaner technique worked pretty fantastic because the sand would lock rocks in place, suctioning said sand off made for quick progress.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

When I know I'm driving a bunch in hard ground they meet my dry chop saw and get an angle cut at the bottom. They seem to drive in a bit easier. Also, water may help if you can soak the area a bit. I usually have only needed a hand operated post driver but there are pneumatic or even engine driven models. A pnuematic one is in the $400 range IIRC, but a pro level one is much higher. An adapter for a demo hammer is like $50.

What kind of budget are you aiming for? It can be quite a wide variety of options and costs. You prefer electric driven, gas, pnuematic?

V/R
Bogie

Thanks. I would have to say that the ground is soaked. My AWD Subaru got stuck in the mud here today after the snow melted, lol. Now that is soaked.

I really like the gas powered driver that Dustball linked to. I am wondering if that might be up to the job. I am also going to be installing wooden posts for a real fence at some point. If you have any idea, do you think that tool could double for something like that? I don't know much about wooden fence posts but speculate that the diameter of the tool and wood could be an issue if the tool hole isn't large enough. I don't think the ground is as obnoxiously hard in the area I intend to put the permanent wood fence posts in BUT it isn't too far behind here in Central Virginia. It's red clay for about a foot then rocks.

Budget? Meh....300 bucks seems nice. I like gas powered tools like that. I like electric but I would figure that battery operated tools might struggle. Milwaukee might not...but I'd HAVE to be sure before taking that risk.

UPDATE: That tool cannot do double duty for wood posts. I wonder if there is a tool that could do both that doesn't require me to use a hammer or dig....that I can of course afford, lol.

Thanks.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

The valley where I live is peppered with glacial river wash. Meaning sand and big rocks. 50% of the soil I dig up is rocks, the rest sand which do an amazing job at locking the rocks in place...

Diving T-posts... I managed to drive half of them. The ones that were a no-go had to be dug and set in place by tamping down gravel or setting them on cement. By no-go I mean imagine a few inches bellow the surface encountering a football size rock and your T post driving efforts have to be harsh enough to break that rock and keep on going until it hits the next rock...

Best technique was using a post digger, post digging shovels, and a vacuum cleaner to pick up the sand when it got deep. the vacuum cleaner technique worked pretty fantastic because the sand would lock rocks in place, suctioning said sand off made for quick progress.

Your scenario reminds me that there really is just no way to judge what I am going to encounter. I have about average strength...but I am no spring chicken. Thanks.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Is it possible for the t-post to bend before I do? Perhaps not a good example BUT I tried tiki torch stakes and they sure bent when trying to go deeper than an inch. Sharp 2x2 inch stakes split in half from the force of an engineering hammer and the stake refused to go in further than an inch.

Thanks for the heads up on those variables.

In that case yes I'd assume you could bend the T post.

Random question... where do you live? Is the ground frozen?

Ground where I am is super rocky. Go,down a couple feet and lots of small rock but also rocks the size of basketballs. Digging plants really *****.

Every year I drive fiberglass posts into the sides of the driveway to mark boundary. If I do it in October no problem. If I do it in December, or like now, when the plow knocked em out theyll only go an inch or two.

If the ground is frozen you'll never get through.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

In that case yes I'd assume you could bend the T post.

Random question... where do you live? Is the ground frozen?

Ground where I am is super rocky. Go,down a couple feet and lots of small rock but also rocks the size of basketballs. Digging plants really *****.

Every year I drive fiberglass posts into the sides of the driveway to mark boundary. If I do it in October no problem. If I do it in December, or like now, when the plow knocked em out theyll only go an inch or two.

If the ground is frozen you'll never get through.

Your ground sounds just like mine. I can dig a foot deep in a minute. The next 1.5 feet take me 3 hours. Full of rocks!

I live in the Fredericksburg Area of Virginia. The ground is not frozen at the moment but that can change quickly....especially this year!

I had a quick read on Fiberglass posts to mark boundaries. I had not heard of these.

 

[Don1357]

Your scenario reminds me that there really is just no way to judge what I am going to encounter. I have about average strength...but I am no spring chicken. Thanks.

do what I did; try to drive them in, when that fails use the post digger for cement or gravel. It may be sack of mix per hole. I was already digging the corner posts for 4x4 so the way I figure the ones I was able to just drive into the soil were a bonus.

 

[RTM]

I have a grounding rod driver for my demo hammer, and it only goes up to 5/8”. So T posts and wood posts would both be out of the question. I drove a 1/2” rod 4’ in about 2 minutes. By hand it sucked big time, and I **** at hitting a 1/2” rod with an engineers hammer while standing on a ladder.

We have a mix of rocks and sandy soil, but nothing even football sized has been hit so far. I have a shovel bit for the demo hammer too, since it ***** to dig by hand. But that might be your best option, digging, then dropping in the posts, and backfilling. A post hole digger with a smaller auger bit might do the job.

 

[Kscardsfan]

You can bend the piss out of a T post. And then it’s an even bigger ***** to pull out.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

Sound strategies. Thanks for sharing all of these experiences.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Your ground sounds just like mine. I can dig a foot deep in a minute. The next 1.5 feet take me 3 hours. Full of rocks!

I live in the Fredericksburg Area of Virginia. The ground is not frozen at the moment but that can change quickly....especially this year!

I had a quick read on Fiberglass posts to mark boundaries. I had not heard of these.

Technically I guess they're driveway markers? Like these... Reflective markers.

Might be enough to keep people out of your yard? They'll at least define the boundary and are cheap & high vis... can't not see them even at night.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...F3di0Yyv13rzGnKj5xAaAp7REALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

Technically I guess they're driveway markers? Like these... Reflective markers.

Might be enough to keep people out of your yard? They'll at least define the boundary and are cheap & high vis... can't not see them even at night.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...F3di0Yyv13rzGnKj5xAaAp7REALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Ahhh yes I have seen these before. How would I get these little demons far enough into the ground though? Once the winds come or the ground gets soaked I would have no idea whether or not someone willfully knocked one over (I'd suspect that no reasonable person would knock that over but I'd still wonder about folks driving company vehicles that won't care). I am talking an area of about 600 feet or so if I count both sides of the road. This is an easement that runs right through my property.

What cool expensive tool could ensure that these stay put in the ground?

Do I finally get to justify buying a rotary hammer drill? Lol.

 

[GForceJunky]

You seem to have a lot of good advice on the t-post side of things but regarding the wood fence, typically you want a hole 3x the nominal size of the post (so if you're using a 4x4 you want a 12" diameter hole, 6x6 18" diameter, etc.). You'll want to look up the building code for where you are but I built about 250-300' of fence this summer and dug my post holes 12" in diameter and 4' deep. You want to make sure to get below the frost line so the posts don't shift.

I rented a Bobcat and got a 12" auger bit + extension (though I didn't end up needing the extension). You could do it with some of the bigger gas-powered augers but if you have more than a few posts to do either rent a Bobcat or hire someone to do it. Having a post-hole digger to clean out loose dirt from the bottom is good too, or if you need to get a couple extra inches of depth.

You can of course dig holes with an auger and cement the posts in vs driving them in. That would be the tool that does both, or the closest thing to it.

 

[Bert_]

You seem to have a lot of good advice on the t-post side of things but regarding the wood fence, typically you want a hole 3x the nominal size of the post (so if you're using a 4x4 you want a 12" diameter hole, 6x6 18" diameter, etc.). You'll want to look up the building code for where you are but I built about 250-300' of fence this summer and dug my post holes 12" in diameter and 4' deep. You want to make sure to get below the frost line so the posts don't shift.

I rented a Bobcat and got a 12" auger bit + extension (though I didn't end up needing the extension). You could do it with some of the bigger gas-powered augers but if you have more than a few posts to do either rent a Bobcat or hire someone to do it. Having a post-hole digger to clean out loose dirt from the bottom is good too, or if you need to get a couple extra inches of depth.

You can of course dig holes with an auger and cement the posts in vs driving them in. That would be the tool that does both, or the closest thing to it.

Why would you want a hole 3x the size of the post? Sounds like a lot of dirt to tamp back in.

 

[Bert_]

I created a similar post earlier on. I am not sure that I got the information that I needed.

I am trying to put metal T-posts in the ground. I can only get them about an inch in the ground and they go no further.

What an appropriate power tool that I can reasonably purchase to get that t-post into the ground.

I'd like to purchase a tool as opposed to renting one. I like new toys if I can afford them.

Is a Rotary hammer drill what I am looking for? If so, what attaches to it and what size?

Thanks!

How are you trying to pound them in now? I'm assuming you have a hand post pounder?

 

[GForceJunky]

Why would you want a hole 3x the size of the post? Sounds like a lot of dirt to tamp back in.

Not for a t-post, for a wood post fence (he asked about that as well). You fill that hole with cement. Look up hole sizing for wood fence posts - the standard you'll find listed anywhere is 3x nominal post size. Depth varies by location. Hole has some gravel at the bottom (ideally) then the post goes in and it's filled with concrete.

No dirt to tamp back in whatsoever, though there's a lot of dirt to get rid of if you dig enough holes.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I have a friend who had is own fencing company. He had a gas powered t post hammer. It seemed like that thing could drive a t post through concrete. The only downside was that it was heavy and needed someone tall and strong to drive posts all day.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

How are you trying to pound them in now? I'm assuming you have a hand post pounder?

Check out Post 4. I omitted my real intentions to try to keep the post simple and didn't think that it would run this long. I never actually tried a T-post in that gravel. I didn't mean to be mislead anyone. I DO have experience with the tiki stakes and wood stake installations failing in short order so I figured close enough. I figure that these future t-posts better fall down only when someone hits them, not when the ground gets soft or I get a 90mph burst of wind or I am just asking for liability issues.

As it sits, these tiki stakes (with 5 foot pvc pipe in the middle for visibility) fall down at the rate of about one per day. I can't tell if someone is hitting them or if they are not in deep enough or some other issue combined with wet soil/wind.

Thanks.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

Appreciate every single post here so far.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Ahhh yes I have seen these before. How would I get these little demons far enough into the ground though? Once the winds come or the ground gets soaked I would have no idea whether or not someone willfully knocked one over

What cool expensive tool could ensure that these stay put in the ground?

Do I finally get to justify buying a rotary hammer drill? Lol.

Plain old 16oz hammer gets it done if the ground ain't frozen. Couple taps and they go in a few inches.

Never had wind blow one over or fall after heavy rains.

Snow plow is another story. Plow eats a couple every year. But they're cheap & its easy enough to see my line and hammer in replacements.

No expensive tools sorry! Just a quick & dirty solution even if it ain't permanent seeing a bunch of reflectors is probably a good enough deterrent for most people.

 

[seber]

Driving t-posts into any ground other than rocks can be done with a post pounder. Gravel isn't even a consideration. Don't complicate it. Unless you are doing a mile of fence, the post pounder is all you need.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

Thanks for everything. I have got this now because of your efforts. Thanks for making a difference.

 

[Bert_]

Not for a t-post, for a wood post fence (he asked about that as well). You fill that hole with cement. Look up hole sizing for wood fence posts - the standard you'll find listed anywhere is 3x nominal post size. Depth varies by location. Hole has some gravel at the bottom (ideally) then the post goes in and it's filled with concrete.

No dirt to tamp back in whatsoever, though there's a lot of dirt to get rid of if you dig enough holes.

I've built plenty of fence, lots of 6" wood posts. Never used concrete. Honestly I think concrete is a bad idea. Makes replacing the post a pain. If you tamp the dirt back around the post it is very solid.