grounding 3 switches

[green.bubbly]

There has to be a better way. I have three switches in a 3 gang plastic box. Switch for can lights, ceiling fan and ceiling fan light. All #12 copper. Fan and fan light using 12/3

What is the best method for the grounding? In the attached pic, I nutted the three grounds together with a long bare pigtail. I then looped that bare ground to all three switches.

Any other options other than using a using a insulated ground pigtail instead of a bare ground?

 

[pattenp]

If you're worried about all that bare copper touching a switch terminal then wrap the switch body with electrical tape.

Edit: You can reduce the ground pig tail to #14 to give some flexibility to get the switches pushed into the box.

 

[green.bubbly]

Thanks for the reply. I am now questioning my decision to wire the entire house using #12.

I normally tape around the receptacle but yes, those bare grounds worry me. I think I will get some insulated green #14 wire. Other than that, the looping the ground is ok?

 

[pattenp]

The way you attached the ground is fine. I would have done the same.

 

[green.bubbly]

Cool. Thanks again.

 

[Aceman]

Edit: You can reduce the ground pig tail to #14 to give some flexibility to get the switches pushed into the box.

If he's using #12, I'd assume 20 amp breakers. So why would you mention using a #14 ground?

On top of that, #12 ISN'T that hard to work with.....

If a guy can't do it right or is too lazy to do it right, he probably shouldn't be wiring. Don't you think?

 

[Norcal]

If he's using #12, I'd assume 20 amp breakers. So why would you mention using a #14 ground?

On top of that, #12 ISN'T that hard to work with.....

If a guy can't do it right or is too lazy to do it right, he probably shouldn't be wiring. Don't you think?

Agreed, I never cared for Greenies, a splice cap is quick & easy + cheap, makes it easy to handle grounding multiple devices too.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Nothing wrong with what you have done.

 

[green.bubbly]

Because I am a glutton for punishment, would it be better if I used a copper crimp and added three insulated pigtails, one for each switch?

Maybe I am weird but the way I did it bothers me. Actually, it boggles my mind that there has not been a better system created.

 

[moserjj]

I did it similar when I deviced my house recently. I didn't have all the outlets taped since I had a lazy helper working with me and did have a ground touching a neutral which made for a fun time tracking that down. So definitely always tape them. my question would be how come you are putting in devices without drywall finished? That will make it much harder to do

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Norcal]

Taping devices is a sign of suspect workmanship...... Big red flag.

 

[pattenp]

I can't disagree with you, but I understood in this situation that using a reduced ground pigtail is okay. So, I mentioned it as an option. I went back and read NEC 250 and I see now that grounding conductors have to be sized from Table 250.122, no if, ands, or buts about it. So #12 it is, I stand corrected.

If he's using #12, I'd assume 20 amp breakers. So why would you mention using a #14 ground?

On top of that, #12 ISN'T that hard to work with.....

If a guy can't do it right or is too lazy to do it right, he probably shouldn't be wiring. Don't you think?

 

[pattenp]

I whole heartily disagree with this. I've seen many master electricians do this as an added safety measure.

Taping devices is a sign of suspect workmanship...... Big red flag.

 

[green.bubbly]

Agreed, I never cared for Greenies, a splice cap is quick & easy + cheap, makes it easy to handle grounding multiple devices too.

Do they make different size splice caps? A quick Google search did not indicate various sizes.

 

[Aceman]

I whole heartily disagree with this. I've seen many master electricians do this as an added safety measure.

It's absolutely a waste of time. I can not think of one instance where you would need to tape the device screws in a NONmetallic box. It doesn't make sense. If you can't fold your wires back in the box in such a way that they don't lay across the other terminal screws, you need more practice. That's all there is to it.

For the record, I have taped up big devices, for instance a 600v 3p 30amp motor rated switch in a metal box because it has less than an 1/8" clearance on each side. But devices in nonmetallic boxes? Waste of time.

 

[jbberns]

It's absolutely a waste of time. I can not think of one instance where you would need to tape the device screws in a NONmetallic box. It doesn't make sense. If you can't fold your wires back in the box in such a way that they don't lay across the other terminal screws, you need more practice. That's all there is to it.

For the record, I have taped up big devices, for instance a 600v 3p 30amp motor rated switch in a metal box because it has less than an 1/8" clearance on each side. But devices in nonmetallic boxes? Waste of time.

Pulling a switch out hot is a good time for a switch to be taped. Sometimes I tape them sometimes I don't. But every time I pull one out hot without tape, I cuss it.

 

[jbberns]

Taping devices is a sign of suspect workmanship...... Big red flag.

Because???

 

[pattenp]

I disagreed with the statement that taping a receptacle was a sign of poor workmanship. Taping the receptacle is not a substitute for properly installing the receptacle in a neat manner, but taping the receptacle is not poor workmanship.

It's absolutely a waste of time. I can not think of one instance where you would need to tape the device screws in a NONmetallic box. It doesn't make sense. If you can't fold your wires back in the box in such a way that they don't lay across the other terminal screws, you need more practice. That's all there is to it.

For the record, I have taped up big devices, for instance a 600v 3p 30amp motor rated switch in a metal box because it has less than an 1/8" clearance on each side. But devices in nonmetallic boxes? Waste of time.

 

[Aceman]

I disagreed with the statement that taping a receptacle was a sign of poor workmanship. Taping the receptacle is not a substitute for properly installing the receptacle in a neat manner, but taping the receptacle is not poor workmanship.

The time and money spent taping devices unnecessarily could be better spent doing something actually productive. I can't even imagine how many extra labor hours could be added doing something like this on a big project, say a hotel or school.

Here's what OSHA says about energized circuits for employees, taken from here:
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9910

General." Safety-related work practices shall be employed to prevent electric shock or other injuries resulting from either direct or indirect electrical contacts, when work is performed near or on equipment or circuits which are or may be energized. The specific safety-related work practices shall be consistent with the nature and extent of the associated electrical hazards.

1910.333(a)(1)

"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.


Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.


Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.

 

[green.bubbly]

my question would be how come you are putting in devices without drywall finished? That will make it much harder to do

I am only doing a few of the "more complex" circuits. I have two 3-way light circuits and a couple of boxes with 3 and 4 switches together. Just want to make sure they work before I close it all in.


I am certainly not a professional but I generally tape my switches and outlets. Of course my labor is free so the extra time it takes is nothing to me.

I agree it is probably a waste of time but I was shown to do it that way years ago and it just kind of stuck with me. Allows me to sleep a little better at night I guess.

I did my garage that way and the inspector did not seem to care either way. I have read many debates on this subject and it would seem that it is purely ones personal preference as to whether they should be taped or not.

Back to the splice caps, do they make then in different sizes?

 

[Norcal]

They are made in two sizes, the splice caps that is.

 

[pattenp]

You win. I wasn't looking to make a debate out of this.

The time and money spent taping devices unnecessarily could be better spent doing something actually productive. I can't even imagine how many extra labor hours could be added doing something like this on a big project, say a hotel or school.

Here's what OSHA says about energized circuits for employees, taken from here:
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9910

General." Safety-related work practices shall be employed to prevent electric shock or other injuries resulting from either direct or indirect electrical contacts, when work is performed near or on equipment or circuits which are or may be energized. The specific safety-related work practices shall be consistent with the nature and extent of the associated electrical hazards.

1910.333(a)(1)

"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.


Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.


Note 2: Examples of work that may be performed on or near energized circuit parts because of infeasibility due to equipment design or operational limitations include testing of electric circuits that can only be performed with the circuit energized and work on circuits that form an integral part of a continuous industrial process in a chemical plant that would otherwise need to be completely shut down in order to permit work on one circuit or piece of equipment.

 

[green.bubbly]

They are made in two sizes, the splice caps that is.

Thank you sir.