Grounding Meter Socket/Combo panel?

[onthefence777]

Had the power company install a meter/load center combo panel at my property recently. It has 4 breaker spaces below the 200 amp main breaker. I want to install a 30 amp RV outlet right next to the panel.

My major question is about grounding the panel. Since it is a combo meter/panel, I know the ground and neutral is bonded inside the panel. If I understand correctly, what I need to do is install a ground rod and connect the ground rod strap with copper wire into the neutral/ground bus of the panel in order for my trailer outlet to be properly grounded.

Just wanted to double check, so appreciate if anyone could verify.

Thanks

 

[u2slow]

One would think the power company would not walk away from an installation that wasn't already properly grounded. The ground and neutral are bonded together at a single point for a building. An RV receptacle (or any branch circuit) should be able to be installed without further ground rods.

Probably best to consult an electrician familiar with your area and power company. Doesn't sound like a large/costly job.

 

[onthefence777]

One would think the power company would not walk away from an installation that wasn't already properly grounded. The ground and neutral are bonded together at a single point for a building. An RV receptacle (or any branch circuit) should be able to be installed without further ground rods.

Probably best to consult an electrician familiar with your area and power company. Doesn't sound like a large/costly job.

That's what I wasn't sure of, if the ground/neutral bonding in the box is a good enough ground as is. They did not install a ground rod. I know the neutral and ground busses must NOT be bonded on any subpanels after the first one, and requires a ground rod, but unsure on if a ground rod is overkill/not needed or if it would be harmful since the neutral and grounds are bonded. I've installed breakers/outlets before, but it was on existing panels that already had ground rods installed.

 

[u2slow]

Are you sure your system isn't tied into the pre-existing ground rods? If not, that would be very bad and needs to rectified immediately.

A set of rods is normally installed per-building, or per-consumer's-service... not per panel.

 

[sparky 1971]

The REC does the same thing where I live. You are responsible for the ground rods. Two ground rods at least six feet apart. You need at least a #6 wire. Some places require a #4, so you may just want to go that route. Make sure you don't put the rods where they will interfere with future trenching. I usually go out from the back of the pole unless the trench is there, in which case I put them in the trench

 

[onthefence777]

Are you sure your system isn't tied into the pre-existing ground rods? If not, that would be very bad and needs to rectified immediately.

A set of rods is normally installed per-building, or per-consumer's-service... not per panel.

This is a very rural bare land acreage. I doubt there is a ground rod anywhere on it. I'm not going to move my RV onto the land until I get the outlet set up.

The REC does the same thing where I live. You are responsible for the ground rods. Two ground rods at least six feet apart. You need at least a #6 wire. Some places require a #4, so you may just want to go that route. Make sure you don't put the rods where they will interfere with future trenching. I usually go out from the back of the pole unless the trench is there, in which case I put them in the trench

Very good to know. I will probably just use #4 to be safe. I didn't know to do 2 ground rods, but will definitely do so.

Fortunately, the pole is right on the very edge of my property, so there should be no trench interference problems.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Had the power company install a meter/load center combo panel at my property recently. It has 4 breaker spaces below the 200 amp main breaker. I want to install a 30 amp RV outlet right next to the panel.

Im surprised the power company did not install the NEC required pair of grounding electrodes..... ask them if they are suppose to.... this install is not NEC compliant....

My major question is about grounding the panel. Since it is a combo meter/panel, I know the ground and neutral is bonded inside the panel. If I understand correctly, what I need to do is install a ground rod and connect the ground rod strap with copper wire into the neutral/ground bus of the panel in order for my trailer outlet to be properly grounded.

Just wanted to double check, so appreciate if anyone could verify.

Thanks

Not quite.

youre mixing up things here.

Grounding electrodes have nothing to do with the ground pin on an outlet. grounding electrodes are for shunting lightning, limiting voltage to earth and shunting high voltage when PoCo primary lines contact secondary lines.

The ground pin on the outlet is an equipment grounding conductor for establishing a low impedance fault current pathway.

Dont confuse the 2 as they serve different purposes.

Your RV outlet will function perfectly fine without a grounding electrode but i would not use the service until you install the grounding electrodes in case of lightning...

That's what I wasn't sure of, if the ground/neutral bonding in the box is a good enough ground as is.

The neutral bonding in the main service panel has nothing to do with grounding electrodes. The neutral bonding is for establishing a low impedance fault current pathway so breakers can trip when current energizes metallic pathways that should not be energized....

They did not install a ground rod. I know the neutral and ground busses must NOT be bonded on any subpanels after the first one, and requires a ground rod, but unsure on if a ground rod is overkill/not needed or if it would be harmful since the neutral and grounds are bonded. I've installed breakers/outlets before, but it was on existing panels that already had ground rods installed.

a grounding electrode is not overkill nor harmful to a neutral bond since they do not have anything to do with each other. The NEC actually requires 2 grounding electrodes, not just one....

The REC does the same thing where I live. You are responsible for the ground rods. Two ground rods at least six feet apart. You need at least a #6 wire. Some places require a #4, so you may just want to go that route. Make sure you don't put the rods where they will interfere with future trenching. I usually go out from the back of the pole unless the trench is there, in which case I put them in the trench

Actually, NEC minimum size for GEC is #8 but requires protection. #6 does not need protection and #4 would be overkill here....

 

[sparky 1971]

"Im surprised the power company did not install the NEC required pair of grounding electrodes..... ask them if they are suppose to.... this install is not NEC compliant...."

The REC where I live supplies a meter main on a pole and that is all. They leave about 12' of #4 wrapped around the base of the pole for us to connect to the rods that we have to install.

"Actually, NEC minimum size for GEC is #8 but requires protection. #6 does not need protection and #4 would be overkill here..."

I am not going to go look it up because I really don't care...but. It's a 200 amp service. Isn't the minimum gec for a 200 amp service a #4? I know that a ground rod is only good for a #6, but there are a few places around me where the AHJ requires a #4 if it's outside. Just for protection from the dreaded weed eater.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Grounding electrodes have nothing to do with the ground pin on an outlet. grounding electrodes are for shunting lightning, limiting voltage to earth and shunting high voltage when PoCo primary lines contact secondary lines.

The ground pin on the outlet is an equipment grounding conductor for establishing a low impedance fault current pathway.

That is the BEST simple explanation I have ever read about ground vs grounding electrode !

Because they are bonded together it is difficult for us amateurs to keep this straight. (Also us old farts never saw a grounding electrode and grew up with 3 wire 240V electric stoves and dryers where they used to used the ground pin as the neutral for things like lights and timers.)

I still get a chuckle out of the little computer power bricks that have a 3 wire plug ! The case is plastic, the circuit board in fiberglass, just what are they connecting that ground wire to ?

 

[onthefence777]

The REC where I live supplies a meter main on a pole and that is all. They leave about 12' of #4 wrapped around the base of the pole for us to connect to the rods that we have to install.

I don't think they even left me any copper wire in my case, lol.

Grounding electrodes have nothing to do with the ground pin on an outlet. grounding electrodes are for shunting lightning, limiting voltage to earth and shunting high voltage when PoCo primary lines contact secondary lines.

The ground pin on the outlet is an equipment grounding conductor for establishing a low impedance fault current pathway.

Dont confuse the 2 as they serve different purposes.

Your RV outlet will function perfectly fine without a grounding electrode but i would not use the service until you install the grounding electrodes in case of lightning...

Thank you for your great detailed explanation!

 

[sberry]

6 to rods, 4 to uffer or water pipe used as a primary.